On 21 Dec, 03:32, Eeyore
wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
borosteve wrote:

Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some
sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd
players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components
are king? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to
worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Come on
guy's if you really don't like quality sound *give it a rest and talk
about something else on another group! Maybe there's a group about
saddo's who just post controvertial stuff to annoy everyone? Maybe
their's a group about nerds who just like to see their own posts on a
screen!!

Well, we could talk about the misuse of the apostrophe, for a start.

Pluralisation by apostrophe ! Often called the greengrocer's apostrophe.

Seen recently in a pub *(honestly) .... " Fish and Chip's ".

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vivian....ostGrocers.htm

Graham

If I want a lesson in ****ing gramma and spelling I'll ask for one ok
**** head!!

borosteve wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
borosteve wrote:

Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some
sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd
players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components
are king? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to
worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Come on
guy's if you really don't like quality sound give it a rest and talk
about something else on another group! Maybe there's a group about
saddo's who just post controvertial stuff to annoy everyone? Maybe
their's a group about nerds who just like to see their own posts on a
screen!!

Well, we could talk about the misuse of the apostrophe, for a start.

Pluralisation by apostrophe ! Often called the greengrocer's apostrophe.

Seen recently in a pub (honestly) .... " Fish and Chip's ".

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vivian....ostGrocers.htm

Graham

If I want a lesson in ****ing gramma and spelling I'll ask for one ok
**** head!!

How about a lesson in being civil ?

Graham

In article
,
borosteve wrote:
On 21 Dec, 03:32, Eeyore
wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
borosteve wrote:

Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be
some sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think
that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs
of components are king? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when
all you had to worry about was how many watts your speakers could
handle? Come on guy's if you really don't like quality sound give
it a rest and talk about something else on another group! Maybe
there's a group about saddo's who just post controvertial stuff to
annoy everyone? Maybe their's a group about nerds who just like to
see their own posts on a screen!!

Well, we could talk about the misuse of the apostrophe, for a start.

Pluralisation by apostrophe ! Often called the greengrocer's
apostrophe.

Seen recently in a pub (honestly) .... " Fish and Chip's ".

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vivian....ostGrocers.htm

Graham

If I want a lesson in ****ing gramma and spelling I'll ask for one ok
**** head!!

If you are so thick as to not understand the simple laws on apostrophe use
it puts the rest of your argument into question. And adequately proved by
your later statement that 'cables do sound different'.

Of course it is possible to make a cable to modify an audio signal but
only charlatans sell them to satisfy the gullible.

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

It might be worth giving this old chestnut an airing again!

http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk/images/flower.jpg


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie

Bob Latham wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If you are so thick as to not understand the simple laws on apostrophe
use it puts the rest of your argument into question.

That to me is a quite ridiculous argument.

You are saying that someone who is ignorant in one area of life even in
knowledge considered basic and elementary by the majority means he cannot
be the world's best expert in another. I'm quite sure most people (if not
everyone) have some weak areas for all sorts of reasons *least* of all
because they are thick.

It's not an encouraging sign though.


And adequately proved by your later statement that 'cables do sound
different'.

That is your opinion, you may be right. What worries me about this is that
some of you guys are so convinced that your knowledge of science is so
good that you *know* they cannot sound different so you never really tried
it.

How about those who are so confident of their ears that they choose to ignore
the science ? I'm a lot more concerned about them. And they make a lot of
noise too.

Aside from incompetently designed amplifiers that oscillated with low
inductance cables (was it Naim ?) can we agree that cables DO NOT affect
......

1. Distortion.
2. Signal to noise ratio or dynamic range

And that alleged improvements in such aspects as 'speed', 'pace', 'depth',
'soundstaging', 'granularity', and the like are imaginary poppycock ?

That leaves their effect on frequency response. As far as this is concerned it
would be easy to put scientific limits on it. Could you hear a 1dB difference
at some frequency ? Possibly ? 0.1dB ? Pretty damn unlikely I'd say.

Graham

On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:01:56 +0000, Bob Latham wrote:

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If you are so thick as to not understand the simple laws on apostrophe
use it puts the rest of your argument into question.

That to me is a quite ridiculous argument.

You are saying that someone who is ignorant in one area of life even in
knowledge considered basic and elementary by the majority means he
cannot be the world's best expert in another. I'm quite sure most people
(if not everyone) have some weak areas for all sorts of reasons *least*
of all because they are thick.

And adequately proved by your later statement that 'cables do sound
different'.

That is your opinion, you may be right. What worries me about this is
that some of you guys are so convinced that your knowledge of science is
so good that you *know* they cannot sound different so you never really
tried it. That of course reminds me of people saying the world cannot be
round otherwise it stands to reason we would all fall off on the other
side.


Cheers,

Bob.

Well said, Bob. Most of these so-called objectivists are nothing more
than hypocrites. If they really believed what they spout they'd all
have £50 CD players from Tesco's, £100 NAD (or whatever ) amps and use
£2 interconnects and bell wire/mains cable for their speaker connections.
After all, these all "measure" as well as £2k CD players/amps or expensive
interconnects/speaker cables.

They also, of course, would choose their wines or whiskies via double
blind tastings!!

The truth is that their "knowledge of science" as you put it, is
anything but knowledge. A good scientist knows that any scientific
"fact" is merely a working hypothesis that cannot be disproven to
agree with the state of scientific data at the time. The people we
are talking about here are not scientists but engineers with an overblown
faith in technology.

Malcolm

In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
If you are so thick as to not understand the simple laws on apostrophe
use it puts the rest of your argument into question.

That to me is a quite ridiculous argument.

Exactly as meant, then.

You are saying that someone who is ignorant in one area of life even in
knowledge considered basic and elementary by the majority means he cannot
be the world's best expert in another. I'm quite sure most people (if not
everyone) have some weak areas for all sorts of reasons *least* of all
because they are thick.

And adequately proved by your later statement that 'cables do sound
different'.

That is your opinion, you may be right. What worries me about this is
that some of you guys are so convinced that your knowledge of science is
so good that you *know* they cannot sound different so you never really
tried it. That of course reminds me of people saying the world cannot be
round otherwise it stands to reason we would all fall off on the other
side.

Of course I've tried different cables. Use lots of cables at work under
much more arduous conditions than a home Hi-Fi. If cables made a
difference then the long runs I use would make it all the more obvious.
It's not something new claiming cables sound different - it's been going
on now for over 40 years.

--
*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

borosteve wrote:

Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some
sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd
players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components
are king?

Whay exactly do you think you can hear that's not capable of being
measured ?

Today's test equipment can resolve non-linearities as small as 130dB below
the signal level which VASTLY exceeds the abilities of human hearing.

Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and
the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they
found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and
call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to
ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and
the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they
found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and
call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to
ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them.

Agreed 100%. I remember the first time I met this sort of thing in a review,
it was for the original Linn Sondeck turntable. After describing the "sound"
of this turntable in the sort of overblown language previously only seen
from wine reviewers, the reviewer went on to claim that *any* system using
this turntable would sound better than any other system that didn't. So all
the deficiencies of a cheap arm, cartridge, amp or speakers apparently
mattered less than the supposed inferiority of all other turntables.

That was the day I stopped buying Hi-Fi magazines.

David.

On 21 Dec, 09:23, "David Looser" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message

...

Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and
the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they
found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and
call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to
ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them.

Agreed 100%. I remember the first time I met this sort of thing in a review,
it was for the original Linn Sondeck turntable. After describing the "sound"
of this turntable in the sort of overblown language previously only seen
from wine reviewers, the reviewer went on to claim that *any* system using
this turntable would sound better than any other system that didn't. So all
the deficiencies of a cheap arm, cartridge, amp or speakers apparently
mattered less than the supposed inferiority of all other turntables.

That was the day I stopped buying Hi-Fi magazines.

David.

WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all
sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers
make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all
these years.
Thanx guys,
Borosteve.