borosteve wrote:

Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some
sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd
players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components
are king?

Whay exactly do you think you can hear that's not capable of being
measured ?

Today's test equipment can resolve non-linearities as small as 130dB below
the signal level which VASTLY exceeds the abilities of human hearing.

Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and
the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they
found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and
call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to
ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and
the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they
found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and
call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to
ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them.

Agreed 100%. I remember the first time I met this sort of thing in a review,
it was for the original Linn Sondeck turntable. After describing the "sound"
of this turntable in the sort of overblown language previously only seen
from wine reviewers, the reviewer went on to claim that *any* system using
this turntable would sound better than any other system that didn't. So all
the deficiencies of a cheap arm, cartridge, amp or speakers apparently
mattered less than the supposed inferiority of all other turntables.

That was the day I stopped buying Hi-Fi magazines.

David.

On 21 Dec, 09:23, "David Looser" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message

...

Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and
the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they
found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and
call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to
ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them.

Agreed 100%. I remember the first time I met this sort of thing in a review,
it was for the original Linn Sondeck turntable. After describing the "sound"
of this turntable in the sort of overblown language previously only seen
from wine reviewers, the reviewer went on to claim that *any* system using
this turntable would sound better than any other system that didn't. So all
the deficiencies of a cheap arm, cartridge, amp or speakers apparently
mattered less than the supposed inferiority of all other turntables.

That was the day I stopped buying Hi-Fi magazines.

David.

WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all
sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers
make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all
these years.
Thanx guys,
Borosteve.

"borosteve" wrote in message
...
On 21 Dec, 09:23, "David Looser" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message

...

Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and
the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the
they
found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and
call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as
to
ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them.

Agreed 100%. I remember the first time I met this sort of thing in a
review,
it was for the original Linn Sondeck turntable. After describing the
"sound"
of this turntable in the sort of overblown language previously only seen
from wine reviewers, the reviewer went on to claim that *any* system
using
this turntable would sound better than any other system that didn't. So
all
the deficiencies of a cheap arm, cartridge, amp or speakers apparently
mattered less than the supposed inferiority of all other turntables.

That was the day I stopped buying Hi-Fi magazines.

David.

WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all
sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers
make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all
these years.
Thanx guys,
Borosteve.

Glad to have been able to help!
S


--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:22:02 -0800 (PST), borosteve
wrote:

WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all
sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers
make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all
these years.

No stirring really. That's just the common opinion of people who work
with audio as opposed to audiophile hobbyists. Source quality matters
(and I mean the recording, not what plays it.) Speaker choice and
placement matters. Everything else needs to be competent, and mostly
is these days.

On 21 Dec, 11:46, Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:22:02 -0800 (PST), borosteve

wrote:
WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all
sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers
make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all
these years.

No stirring really. That's just the common opinion of people who work
with audio as opposed to audiophile hobbyists. Source quality matters
(and I mean the recording, not what plays it.) Speaker choice and
placement matters. Everything else needs to be competent, and mostly
is these days.

What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use
audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people
that repair equipment, like a service engineer? If its the latter then
fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference
between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I
can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of
cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most
you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are
there to hear.Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/
sows ear). I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell
the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3....

Merry Xmas,
Borosteve.

"borosteve" wrote in message
...

What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use
audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people
that repair equipment, like a service engineer?

He probably means people who design and build audio equipment (there seem to
be quite a lot on this NG).

If its the latter then
fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference
between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I
can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of
cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most
you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are
there to hear.

So who are you? and why do you do these demonstrations?, are you trying to
sell them something?. A good salesman knows how to manipulate his customers.

And *how* do you do these demonstrations?, do the audience know what they
are listening to?, how accurately do you match sound levels etc.

Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/
sows ear).

As is room acoustics. Why don't audiophiles spend their time worrying about
the sound of the carpet, or the wallpaper, which makes far more difference
to the sound than competent amplifiers or cables?.

I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell
the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3....

And do they still sound the same after your "guy" has repaired them?. If he
can't tell the difference how does he know if they are working the way they
should?

David.

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:56:47 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:

Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/
sows ear).

As is room acoustics. Why don't audiophiles spend their time worrying about
the sound of the carpet, or the wallpaper, which makes far more difference
to the sound than competent amplifiers or cables?.

I've wondered about this too. Even if a cable or (God help us!) power
lead COULD make a difference, a small change in speaker positioning
(or listener positioning) makes a vastly greater one. But the
audiophile comics aren't full of adverts for bass traps and other room
treatments. I don't know why, they can be gratifingly expensive :-)

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:26:19 -0800 (PST), borosteve
wrote:

What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use
audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people
that repair equipment, like a service engineer? If its the latter then
fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference
between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I
can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of
cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most
you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are
there to hear.Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/
sows ear). I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell
the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3....

So which of those colours the sound enough to be noticable?

Laurence Payne wrote:

borosteve wrote:

What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use
audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people
that repair equipment, like a service engineer? If its the latter then
fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference
between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I
can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of
cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most
you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are
there to hear.Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/
sows ear). I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell
the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3....

So which of those colours the sound enough to be noticable?

Given that it would be unlikely that they're level matched, isn't the one
that plays a fraction louder usually mean to sound 'better' ?

Graham