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Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Eeyore" wrote in message Keith G wrote: but let's not forget the far superior 'information carrying' capacity of CDs - the average LP lasts approximately 7 minutes per side; Uh ? More like 20 mins IIRC. Agreed. Except that LPs are generally so bad that it is questionable whether you can call the corrupted mess that can be recovered from them *music*. Catch a grip, Arny.... Pseudo-Dr., cure yourself first! What cure do I need? I use SS and valve amps, 'horns' and 'normal' speakers on a regular (daily) basis; I listen to analogue and digital audio according to my requirements at any particular time and I simply don't care who else does what and which they prefer... Look to yourself, Arny - you're the one with a serious bug up your arse... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Eiron" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: I HAVE heard bad CD players such as the original Sony CDP-101. It souded 'harsh' to me (one can speculate over what casued that) and I was convinced that reverberation was being truncated (although that could have been the result of flawed mastering). Me too. I never discovered whether it was my neighbour's CDP-101, the 'Realistic' amp and speakers or the 1980's music but something gave me a headache. Hmm, spoilt for choice there... Perhaps he's still got it in the junk box; it would be interesting to find out how bad it was. Then you could stick pins in your eyes to round the evening off.... Or, listen to LPs through a SET amplifier and a metal-coned full-range speaker driver. Playing one of your 'purple smock' Gospel recordings? |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Serge Auckland" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Eeyore" wrote in message Arny Krueger wrote: There is no chance that there is anything wrong with the sound of the CD format since it is sonically transparent. No help to those who actively seek colouration though. Same as valve amps. The two ( liking valves and LPs) seem to go hand-in-hand which strongly suggests to me that those people like a strongly coloured sound. I think that sentimentality, a desire to be different for the sake of being different, and gettting attention is behind most of the adamant LP preference we see expressed around here. Add to that a liking for horn loudspeakers, and we have the triumvirate - vinyl-valves-horns. Coloration rules OK? Agreed. It's the "Look at me, I'm weird" effect. These days, we might call it the "Britney Spears Effect". What is it *exactly* that you fear, Arny? |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Eeyore" wrote in message Arny Krueger wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Arny Krueger wrote: There is no chance that there is anything wrong with the sound of the CD format since it is sonically transparent. No help to those who actively seek colouration though. Same as valve amps. The two ( liking valves and LPs) seem to go hand-in-hand which strongly suggests to me that those people like a strongly coloured sound. I think that sentimentality, a desire to be different for the sake of being different, and gettting attention is behind most of the adamant LP preference we see expressed around here. One thing for sure ... I used to do a lot of headphone listening. Still do in fact. Other than doing live sound, I primarily listen through headphones. Aha! Now that *does* explain a few things - all your bloody silly comments about LPs are based on *headphone listening*?? Headphones reveal the failings of LPs very cruelly. Listening on speakers seems to be less unkind to them. That's because most rooms pretty well conceal tons of distortion and noise. That's a good 'un - even for you!! (Horse****ting himself now, it seems...???) 'Nuff said, Arny - I, for one, know exactly where you're coming from now! |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Bob Latham" wrote in message Why would DVD A or Sony's super effort (can't remember) even exist if CDs were transparent? It's hardly the first time someone tried to make money by making nonsensical technical claims. It looks like Sony and Philips lost millions, so they got their just desserts. Admirable the way Arnold B Katzenjammer struggles on with the English language - he's getting quite a lot of it right these days!! :-) Now, Philips and Sony losing millions? Don't know about Sony - they might be sweating, but Philips losing 'millions' would be a lot less devastating than Arny leaving his umbrella down at the Welfare Offices, I would have thought.... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Bob Latham" wrote in message Why would DVD A or Sony's super effort (can't remember) even exist if CDs were transparent? It's hardly the first time someone tried to make money by making nonsensical technical claims. It looks like Sony and Philips lost millions, so they got their just desserts. Admirable the way Arnold B Katzenjammer struggles on with the English language - he's getting quite a lot of it right these days!! :-) Now, Philips and Sony losing millions? Don't know about Sony - they might be sweating, but Philips losing 'millions' would be a lot less devastating than Arny leaving his umbrella down at the Welfare Offices, I would have thought.... OK, I am informed that Philip's 2006 turnover was 27,000,000,000 Euros and that Sony has just done 18,000,000,000 USD in 'Quarter 2', 2007 (?) so maybe they ain't sweating that hard after all.... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Keith G" wrote in message ... What cure do I need? I'm not a Dr., but I know sick when I see it sometimes. I use SS and valve amps, 'horns' and 'normal' speakers on a regular (daily) basis; Begging the question why you claim that the bottles always sound better, given all the contrary evidence that must be at hand. I listen to analogue and digital audio according Begging the question why you claim that the rock being dragged in a ditch always sounds better, given all the contrary evidence that must be at hand. |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Eiron" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: I HAVE heard bad CD players such as the original Sony CDP-101. It souded 'harsh' to me (one can speculate over what casued that) and I was convinced that reverberation was being truncated (although that could have been the result of flawed mastering). Me too. I never discovered whether it was my neighbour's CDP-101, the 'Realistic' amp and speakers or the 1980's music but something gave me a headache. Hmm, spoilt for choice there... Perhaps he's still got it in the junk box; it would be interesting to find out how bad it was. Then you could stick pins in your eyes to round the evening off.... Or, listen to LPs through a SET amplifier and a metal-coned full-range speaker driver. Playing one of your 'purple smock' Gospel recordings? Wrong style of worship. |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Serge Auckland" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Eeyore" wrote in message Arny Krueger wrote: There is no chance that there is anything wrong with the sound of the CD format since it is sonically transparent. No help to those who actively seek colouration though. Same as valve amps. The two ( liking valves and LPs) seem to go hand-in-hand which strongly suggests to me that those people like a strongly coloured sound. I think that sentimentality, a desire to be different for the sake of being different, and gettting attention is behind most of the adamant LP preference we see expressed around here. Add to that a liking for horn loudspeakers, and we have the triumvirate - vinyl-valves-horns. Coloration rules OK? Agreed. It's the "Look at me, I'm weird" effect. These days, we might call it the "Britney Spears Effect". What is it *exactly* that you fear, Arny? No fear. |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Keith G" wrote in message ... Now, Philips and Sony losing millions? On the specific product lines mentioned. |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message ... What cure do I need? I'm not a Dr., but I know sick when I see it sometimes. I use SS and valve amps, 'horns' and 'normal' speakers on a regular (daily) basis; Begging the question why you claim that the bottles always sound better, given all the contrary evidence that must be at hand. Done tole you a hunnerd times - there's mo space air depth tone clarity sweetness with valves... I listen to analogue and digital audio according Begging the question why you claim that the rock being dragged in a ditch always sounds better, given all the contrary evidence that must be at hand. And this one again (do you *ever* pay any attention?) - because there's mo detail imaging soundstaging warmth bass realism What about the 'horns'? Don't you want to ask about them too? |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Eiron" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: I HAVE heard bad CD players such as the original Sony CDP-101. It souded 'harsh' to me (one can speculate over what casued that) and I was convinced that reverberation was being truncated (although that could have been the result of flawed mastering). Me too. I never discovered whether it was my neighbour's CDP-101, the 'Realistic' amp and speakers or the 1980's music but something gave me a headache. Hmm, spoilt for choice there... Perhaps he's still got it in the junk box; it would be interesting to find out how bad it was. Then you could stick pins in your eyes to round the evening off.... Or, listen to LPs through a SET amplifier and a metal-coned full-range speaker driver. Playing one of your 'purple smock' Gospel recordings? Wrong style of worship. Oh, so this wasn't one of your gigs then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHDw6...eature=related |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Serge Auckland" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Eeyore" wrote in message Arny Krueger wrote: There is no chance that there is anything wrong with the sound of the CD format since it is sonically transparent. No help to those who actively seek colouration though. Same as valve amps. The two ( liking valves and LPs) seem to go hand-in-hand which strongly suggests to me that those people like a strongly coloured sound. I think that sentimentality, a desire to be different for the sake of being different, and gettting attention is behind most of the adamant LP preference we see expressed around here. Add to that a liking for horn loudspeakers, and we have the triumvirate - vinyl-valves-horns. Coloration rules OK? Agreed. It's the "Look at me, I'm weird" effect. These days, we might call it the "Britney Spears Effect". What is it *exactly* that you fear, Arny? No fear. Impressive... (To fear *no fear* is very wise indeed...) |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message ... Now, Philips and Sony losing millions? On the specific product lines mentioned. When outfits like Philips and Sony 'lose money' it's the taxpayers who make up the shortfall.... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
Keith G wrote: space air depth tone clarity sweetness with valves... SNORT. I wonder if AP will make a 'sweetness' meter one day ? Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
Keith G wrote: realism Realistic to YOU or to ME ? That's where using subjective judgements falls right on its face. Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: space air depth tone clarity sweetness with valves... SNORT. ****. I wonder if AP will make a 'sweetness' meter one day ? You already got a spacemeter, airmeter, depthmeter, tonemeter and claritymeter then? |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: realism Realistic to YOU or to ME ? Me - who GAS what sounds realistic to you? That's where using subjective judgements falls right on its face. Don't be silly.... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
Keith G wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Keith G wrote: realism Realistic to YOU or to ME ? Me - who GAS what sounds realistic to you? And who GAS what sounds realistic to YOU ? That's where using subjective judgements falls right on its face. Don't be silly.... What's silly about pointing out the huge failings of a merit system that relies on one person's individual foibles ? Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Keith G wrote: realism Realistic to YOU or to ME ? Me - who GAS what sounds realistic to you? And who GAS what sounds realistic to YOU ? You, evidently - by the way you keep responding to my posts.... That's where using subjective judgements falls right on its face. Don't be silly.... What's silly about pointing out the huge failings of a merit system that relies on one person's individual foibles ? You've pointed out nothing.... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message ... What cure do I need? I'm not a Dr., but I know sick when I see it sometimes. I use SS and valve amps, 'horns' and 'normal' speakers on a regular (daily) basis; Begging the question why you claim that the bottles always sound better, given all the contrary evidence that must be at hand. Done tole you a hunnerd times - there's mo space air depth tone clarity sweetness with valves... It is almost like Keith doesn't understand that I come from a generation that had nothing but tubes to listen to for almost 20 years. All but a tiny minority of people from my generation know that there's less space air depth tone clarity sweetness and far more expense and general hassle with valves... The billions of us who happily switched to solid state can't be wrong! ;-) |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message ... What cure do I need? I'm not a Dr., but I know sick when I see it sometimes. I use SS and valve amps, 'horns' and 'normal' speakers on a regular (daily) basis; Begging the question why you claim that the bottles always sound better, given all the contrary evidence that must be at hand. Done tole you a hunnerd times - there's mo space air depth tone clarity sweetness with valves... It is almost like Keith doesn't understand that I come from a generation that had nothing but tubes to listen to for almost 20 years. And then dropped his trousers for the 'perfect sound forever' on the latest 'solid state' gadgets because some marketing **** told him it was better! The billions of us who happily switched to solid state can't be wrong! ;-) Except the umpteen thousands who are now waking up and moving back to 'valve and vinyl' now that the penny's finally dropped that they'd been had! |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. It is almost like Keith doesn't understand that I come from a generation that had nothing but tubes to listen to for almost 20 years. And then dropped his trousers for the 'perfect sound forever' on the latest 'solid state' gadgets because some marketing **** told him it was better! No, my ears told me that if a piece of tubed equipment didn't already sound like **** compared to SS, just run the tubed piece for a few months to a year or two until the tubes got tired. There was a reason why there were tube checkers in just about every electronics, hardware and drug store in the US in those days - the tubed gear stopped working so well, and a bad tube was a likely explanation. The billions of us who happily switched to solid state can't be wrong! ;-) Except the umpteen thousands who are now waking up and moving back to 'valve and vinyl' now that the penny's finally dropped that they'd been had! There's a few bad apples in every bunch - people who simply don't get it no matter how obvious the relevant facts are. |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
Keith G wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote The billions of us who happily switched to solid state can't be wrong! ;-) Except the umpteen thousands who are now waking up and moving back to 'valve and vinyl' now that the penny's finally dropped that they'd been had! You like to flaunt your gullibility do you ? I suspect you've never heard a really good solid state amplifier. For one thing, your bias would probably exclude one from your consideration. Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. It is almost like Keith doesn't understand that I come from a generation that had nothing but tubes to listen to for almost 20 years. And then dropped his trousers for the 'perfect sound forever' on the latest 'solid state' gadgets because some marketing **** told him it was better! No, my ears told me that if a piece of tubed equipment didn't already sound like **** compared to SS, In your dreams.... just run the tubed piece for a few months to a year or two until the tubes got tired. There was a reason why there were tube checkers in just about every electronics, hardware and drug store in the US in those days - the tubed gear stopped working so well, and a bad tube was a likely explanation. From what I gather most of those stores had a foot pedal on the checker that made every valve look like it needed replacing - how many times you got took like that, Arny? The billions of us who happily switched to solid state can't be wrong! ;-) Except the umpteen thousands who are now waking up and moving back to 'valve and vinyl' now that the penny's finally dropped that they'd been had! There's a few bad apples in every bunch - people who simply don't get it no matter how obvious the relevant facts are. You're just a tad outta date - I think you should make the effort to read one or two of the current UK audio comix to get an idea which way the wind's blowing these days... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote The billions of us who happily switched to solid state can't be wrong! ;-) Except the umpteen thousands who are now waking up and moving back to 'valve and vinyl' now that the penny's finally dropped that they'd been had! You like to flaunt your gullibility do you ? No more than you like to flaunt your silliness... I suspect you've never heard a really good solid state amplifier. No, I have to say I haven't really - but then I suspect you haven't either... For one thing, your bias would probably exclude one from your consideration. No - given that it seems you've got to spend about £3.5K to match a 300 quid Chinese valve amp, it's my pocket that exludes them from casual investigation... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Keith G" wrote in message
... No - given that it seems you've got to spend about £3.5K to match a 300 quid Chinese valve amp, it's my pocket that exludes them from casual investigation... How on earth can an amplifier cost £3.5K? Unless the chassis is gold-plated, or it's hand-built by a Swiss craftsman. Neither of which make any difference to the performance. David. |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"David Looser" wrote in message
... "Keith G" wrote in message ... No - given that it seems you've got to spend about £3.5K to match a 300 quid Chinese valve amp, it's my pocket that exludes them from casual investigation... How on earth can an amplifier cost £3.5K? Unless the chassis is gold-plated, or it's hand-built by a Swiss craftsman. Neither of which make any difference to the performance. David. I think the answer is that it doesn't *cost* £3.5K, that's the *price*. The factory cost, excluding marketing expenses, dealer's margin etc will be a *whole* lot less. S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"David Looser" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... No - given that it seems you've got to spend about £3.5K to match a 300 quid Chinese valve amp, it's my pocket that exludes them from casual investigation... How on earth can an amplifier cost £3.5K? See Serge's reply..... Unless the chassis is gold-plated, or it's hand-built by a Swiss craftsman. Neither of which make any difference to the performance. How do you know that? |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... "David Looser" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... No - given that it seems you've got to spend about £3.5K to match a 300 quid Chinese valve amp, it's my pocket that exludes them from casual investigation... How on earth can an amplifier cost £3.5K? Unless the chassis is gold-plated, or it's hand-built by a Swiss craftsman. Neither of which make any difference to the performance. David. I think the answer is that it doesn't *cost* £3.5K, that's the *price*. The factory cost, excluding marketing expenses, dealer's margin etc will be a *whole* lot less. On the nail as usual, Serge.... But my remark was not as facetious as it might have appeared - there's not much doubt that the normal 'thin-slice' SS amplifiers stand no chance against an OK valve amp in my book, but once you get up into the 'arc-welder' bracket to the amps which weigh a bit and have serious power supplies I'm sure (but I don't *know*) that a 3 cwt/3 grand solid state amp (running as hot as a forge) can probably offer the same 'sonics' as a valve amp probably weighing a bit less and probably costing a lot less (but probably still running just as hot) - no? Anybody got first hand experience of a truly *serious* SS amp? (Where's Pinky when you need him? :-) |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
David Looser wrote: "Keith G" wrote No - given that it seems you've got to spend about £3.5K to match a 300 quid Chinese valve amp, it's my pocket that exludes them from casual investigation... How on earth can an amplifier cost £3.5K? Unless the chassis is gold-plated, or it's hand-built by a Swiss craftsman. Neither of which make any difference to the performance. And since when was a £300 Chinese amp any benchmark ? Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
Keith G wrote: I'm sure (but I don't *know*) that a 3 cwt/3 grand solid state amp (running as hot as a forge) can probably offer the same 'sonics' as a valve amp No. The SS amp will never produce as much distortion as the valve amp. Unless it's been designed to distort of course, Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
Keith G wrote: Anybody got first hand experience of a truly *serious* SS amp? Yes. One I designed myself. Mosfet output stage with 24 power devices. Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: I'm sure (but I don't *know*) that a 3 cwt/3 grand solid state amp (running as hot as a forge) can probably offer the same 'sonics' as a valve amp No. The SS amp will never produce as much distortion as the valve amp. Unless it's been designed to distort of course, Anybody runs any amp into audible distortion deserves all he gets.... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: Anybody got first hand experience of a truly *serious* SS amp? Yes. One I designed myself. Mosfet output stage with 24 power devices. Sounds pretty efficient - beats the **** out of one triode per channel then? |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... David Looser wrote: "Keith G" wrote No - given that it seems you've got to spend about £3.5K to match a 300 quid Chinese valve amp, it's my pocket that exludes them from casual investigation... How on earth can an amplifier cost £3.5K? Unless the chassis is gold-plated, or it's hand-built by a Swiss craftsman. Neither of which make any difference to the performance. And since when was a £300 Chinese amp any benchmark ? Since that's all I spent on one - which, asitappens, after a phone call earlier this evening appears now to be sold to a bloke who came here to see/hear my Dynaco Mk IIIs and went away with my Bez 300B SET to try on his, er, ESL57s...!!! |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
Keith G wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Keith G wrote: I'm sure (but I don't *know*) that a 3 cwt/3 grand solid state amp (running as hot as a forge) can probably offer the same 'sonics' as a valve amp No. The SS amp will never produce as much distortion as the valve amp. Unless it's been designed to distort of course, Anybody runs any amp into audible distortion deserves all he gets.... Define audible. Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
Keith G wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Keith G wrote: Anybody got first hand experience of a truly *serious* SS amp? Yes. One I designed myself. Mosfet output stage with 24 power devices. Sounds pretty efficient - beats the **** out of one triode per channel then? It'll drive rock and roll rigs too. 600wpc into 4 ohms - around 900 wpc into 2. As a monitor amplifier it was just lovely. Totally neutral. Graham |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Keith G wrote: I'm sure (but I don't *know*) that a 3 cwt/3 grand solid state amp (running as hot as a forge) can probably offer the same 'sonics' as a valve amp No. The SS amp will never produce as much distortion as the valve amp. Unless it's been designed to distort of course, Anybody runs any amp into audible distortion deserves all he gets.... Define audible. Define 'define'... |
Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Keith G wrote: Anybody got first hand experience of a truly *serious* SS amp? Yes. One I designed myself. Mosfet output stage with 24 power devices. Sounds pretty efficient - beats the **** out of one triode per channel then? It'll drive rock and roll rigs too. 600wpc into 4 ohms - around 900 wpc into 2. As a monitor amplifier it was just lovely. Totally neutral. 'Was'...?? You don't still have it? |
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