"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

It is almost like Keith doesn't understand that I come
from a generation that had nothing but tubes to listen
to for almost 20 years.

And then dropped his trousers for the 'perfect sound
forever' on the latest 'solid state' gadgets because
some marketing **** told him it was better!

No, my ears told me that if a piece of tubed equipment
didn't already sound like **** compared to SS,

In your dreams....

Actually tubes were more like nightmares.

just run the tubed piece for a few months to a
year or two until the tubes got tired.

There was a reason why there were tube checkers in just
about every electronics, hardware and drug store in the
US in those days - the tubed gear stopped working so
well, and a bad tube was a likely explanation.

From what I gather most of those stores had a foot pedal

In your dreams.

on the checker that made every valve look like it needed
replacing - how many times you got took like that, Arny?

Never, because I lived in the real world, not the dream world that you seem
to live in Keith.

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Eeyore" wrote
in message ...


Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:

I'm sure (but I don't *know*) that a 3 cwt/3 grand
solid state amp (running as hot as a forge) can
probably offer the same 'sonics' as a valve amp

No. The SS amp will never produce as much distortion
as the valve amp. Unless it's been designed to distort
of course,

Anybody runs any amp into audible distortion deserves
all he gets....

Define audible.



Define 'define'...

We had a president by the name of Clinton that was good at double-talk like
that.

Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:

Anybody got first hand experience of a truly *serious* SS amp?

Yes. One I designed myself. Mosfet output stage with 24 power devices.

Sounds pretty efficient - beats the **** out of one triode per channel
then?

It'll drive rock and roll rigs too. 600wpc into 4 ohms - around 900 wpc
into 2.

As a monitor amplifier it was just lovely. Totally neutral.

'Was'...??

You don't still have it?

Was as in 'was manufactured'. It was too expensive for its real intended market
of SR, a consequence of not having a properly (intelligently) defined marketing
and sales spec when I designed it. They wanted 'everything' and got it - at a
price.

I do have a couple kicking around that just need tidying up. Trouble is that
it's fan cooled which isn't exactly ideal for home use. No problem in a
studio's machine room of course. The quiesecent dissipation is around 180W !
That's half an amp in those mosfet at idle. Even an AP (Audio Precision test
set) is incapable of seeing any crossover distortion, mosfet output
characteristics work beautifully in such an application. Such distortion as
does exist is low order.

Graham

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

It is almost like Keith doesn't understand that I come
from a generation that had nothing but tubes to listen
to for almost 20 years.

And then dropped his trousers for the 'perfect sound
forever' on the latest 'solid state' gadgets because
some marketing **** told him it was better!

No, my ears told me that if a piece of tubed equipment
didn't already sound like **** compared to SS,

In your dreams....

Actually tubes were more like nightmares.

just run the tubed piece for a few months to a
year or two until the tubes got tired.

There was a reason why there were tube checkers in just
about every electronics, hardware and drug store in the
US in those days - the tubed gear stopped working so
well, and a bad tube was a likely explanation.

From what I gather most of those stores had a foot pedal

In your dreams.

on the checker that made every valve look like it needed
replacing - how many times you got took like that, Arny?

Never, because I lived in the real world, not the dream world that you
seem to live in Keith.


In which you are only a figment of my imagination....

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Eeyore" wrote
in message ...


Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:

I'm sure (but I don't *know*) that a 3 cwt/3 grand
solid state amp (running as hot as a forge) can
probably offer the same 'sonics' as a valve amp

No. The SS amp will never produce as much distortion
as the valve amp. Unless it's been designed to distort
of course,

Anybody runs any amp into audible distortion deserves
all he gets....

Define audible.



Define 'define'...

We had a president by the name of Clinton that was good at double-talk
like that.


And you'll get another one soon, if you aren't careful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggO5yY7RAo

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:

Anybody got first hand experience of a truly *serious* SS amp?

Yes. One I designed myself. Mosfet output stage with 24 power
devices.

Sounds pretty efficient - beats the **** out of one triode per channel
then?

It'll drive rock and roll rigs too. 600wpc into 4 ohms - around 900 wpc
into 2.

As a monitor amplifier it was just lovely. Totally neutral.

'Was'...??

You don't still have it?

Was as in 'was manufactured'. It was too expensive for its real intended
market


Aha...??



of SR, a consequence of not having a properly (intelligently) defined
marketing
and sales spec when I designed it. They wanted 'everything' and got it -
at a
price.

I do have a couple kicking around that just need tidying up. Trouble is
that
it's fan cooled which isn't exactly ideal for home use. No problem in a
studio's machine room of course. The quiesecent dissipation is around 180W
!
That's half an amp in those mosfet at idle. Even an AP (Audio Precision
test
set) is incapable of seeing any crossover distortion, mosfet output
characteristics work beautifully in such an application. Such distortion
as
does exist is low order.


OK, so not a real contender for the home audio market, then?

Got any other 'industrial irrelevancies' you want to offer up?

Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:

Anybody got first hand experience of a truly *serious* SS amp?

Yes. One I designed myself. Mosfet output stage with 24 power
devices.

Sounds pretty efficient - beats the **** out of one triode per channel
then?

It'll drive rock and roll rigs too. 600wpc into 4 ohms - around 900 wpc
into 2.

As a monitor amplifier it was just lovely. Totally neutral.

'Was'...??

You don't still have it?

Was as in 'was manufactured'. It was too expensive for its real intended
market

Aha...??

As in it couldn't compete with cheap QSCs which is probably what they should
have asked me to design for them. But hey, don't knock it, I got to design a
rather super amplifier as a result.


of SR, a consequence of not having a properly (intelligently) defined
marketing and sales spec when I designed it. They wanted 'everything' and
got it -
at a price.

I do have a couple kicking around that just need tidying up. Trouble is
that it's fan cooled which isn't exactly ideal for home use. No problem in a

studio's machine room of course. The quiesecent dissipation is around 180W
!
That's half an amp in those mosfet at idle. Even an AP (Audio Precision
test set) is incapable of seeing any crossover distortion, mosfet output
characteristics work beautifully in such an application. Such distortion
as does exist is low order.

OK, so not a real contender for the home audio market, then?

It could certainly be adapted for home use. You hardly need 180V pk-pk for most
hi-fis.

Reduce that standing dissipation a tad and you've got a very nice amplifier that
no longer needs forced cooling.


Got any other 'industrial irrelevancies' you want to offer up?

What's irrelevant about it ?

Large studio amplifiers are often very similar except you're probably unaware of
that.

Graham