In article , Eeyore rabbitsfriendsandrel
scribeth thus


Woody wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

It occurred to me when fitting some new car speakers that a dual
concentric design would be ideal for this use. But they all seem to
have
tweeters just stuck on the front. Any reason why this design has
fallen
out of favour?

**Perhaps people have finally discovered what I found a few decades
ago: They sound like ****. Given that midrange frequencies are being
bounced off the back of the tweeter, the result ends up sounding like
a pig's breakfast. I've never heard a decent dual concentric car
speaker. Perhaps it's due to the shockingly bad crossovers used. Maybe
it's just the cheap, crappy drivers.


Also perhaps to do with the fact that the stereo 'information' is
carried by the higher frequencies which are lost in the carpet and seats
in most cars so many manufacturers have gone for seperate mid-high
speakers (not just tweeters) in the ends of the dash or the top corners
of the doors. It also means that they can then fit lower quality
speakers that do not need to handle full range in the doors and get what
the punter perceives to be better quality (i.e. more bass.)

You didn't seriously imagine that it's possible to get a proper stereo image
in a car did you?

Graham


No course not!.. but there is a very pleasant difference in my car a 10
Y/O old Audi A6 betwixt Mono and Stereo which makes that worthwhile;!...
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrel
scribeth thus


Woody wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

It occurred to me when fitting some new car speakers that a dual
concentric design would be ideal for this use. But they all seem
to
have
tweeters just stuck on the front. Any reason why this design has
fallen
out of favour?

**Perhaps people have finally discovered what I found a few
decades
ago: They sound like ****. Given that midrange frequencies are
being
bounced off the back of the tweeter, the result ends up sounding
like
a pig's breakfast. I've never heard a decent dual concentric car
speaker. Perhaps it's due to the shockingly bad crossovers used.
Maybe
it's just the cheap, crappy drivers.


Also perhaps to do with the fact that the stereo 'information' is
carried by the higher frequencies which are lost in the carpet and
seats
in most cars so many manufacturers have gone for seperate mid-high
speakers (not just tweeters) in the ends of the dash or the top
corners
of the doors. It also means that they can then fit lower quality
speakers that do not need to handle full range in the doors and get
what
the punter perceives to be better quality (i.e. more bass.)

You didn't seriously imagine that it's possible to get a proper stereo
image
in a car did you?

Graham


No course not!.. but there is a very pleasant difference in my car a
10
Y/O old Audi A6 betwixt Mono and Stereo which makes that
worthwhile;!...
--
Tony Sayer



That's what I really meant.

It is surprising when you have a DAB/FM radio in the car and you switch
between the same station in the different formats (or the radio does it
itself) how often the FM reception is in mono because the signal
strength is too low - the only advantage of DAB I suppose as it is
always in stereo with good separation if you can hear it. ClassicFM and
especially choral show it up inbcredibly well.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

In article , Woody
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrel
scribeth thus


Woody wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

It occurred to me when fitting some new car speakers that a dual
concentric design would be ideal for this use. But they all seem
to
have
tweeters just stuck on the front. Any reason why this design has
fallen
out of favour?

**Perhaps people have finally discovered what I found a few
decades
ago: They sound like ****. Given that midrange frequencies are
being
bounced off the back of the tweeter, the result ends up sounding
like
a pig's breakfast. I've never heard a decent dual concentric car
speaker. Perhaps it's due to the shockingly bad crossovers used.
Maybe
it's just the cheap, crappy drivers.


Also perhaps to do with the fact that the stereo 'information' is
carried by the higher frequencies which are lost in the carpet and
seats
in most cars so many manufacturers have gone for seperate mid-high
speakers (not just tweeters) in the ends of the dash or the top
corners
of the doors. It also means that they can then fit lower quality
speakers that do not need to handle full range in the doors and get
what
the punter perceives to be better quality (i.e. more bass.)

You didn't seriously imagine that it's possible to get a proper stereo
image
in a car did you?

Graham


No course not!.. but there is a very pleasant difference in my car a
10
Y/O old Audi A6 betwixt Mono and Stereo which makes that
worthwhile;!...
--
Tony Sayer



That's what I really meant.

It is surprising when you have a DAB/FM radio in the car and you switch
between the same station in the different formats (or the radio does it
itself) how often the FM reception is in mono because the signal
strength is too low - the only advantage of DAB I suppose as it is
always in stereo with good separation if you can hear it.

When it is;(..


ClassicFM and
especially choral show it up inbcredibly well.

Wot abaht the Jazz;?...



--
Tony Sayer

Trevor Wilson wrote:

Having said that, I can't get
excited about any dual concentric driver I've ever heard. Including the much
vaunted Tannoys.

Trevor Wilson



Dunno why. The Tannoy Monitor Gold series are stunning in their stereo
stage management. I heard them a lot in UK studios in the 70s and the
only thing that came anywhere near then were the big JBls. We had 15
inch Golds in huge Lockwood cabinets on wheels at Neve for checking the
sound of consoles. I still use a pair of 2 inch Monitor Golds to this
day. Best speakers ever invented IMHO.

Cheers

Ian

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Trevor Wilson wrote:

Having said that, I can't get excited about any dual concentric driver I've
ever heard. Including the much vaunted Tannoys.


Dunno why. The Tannoy Monitor Gold series are stunning in their stereo
stage management. I heard them a lot in UK studios in the 70s and the
only thing that came anywhere near then were the big JBls.

Can't agree at all. To my ears the Reds actually sounded a little more natural.
The Golds seemed to squawk a bit to me.


We had 15 inch Golds in huge Lockwood cabinets on wheels at Neve for checking
the
sound of consoles.

And rubbish they are too. Especially with all that polished wooden floor.
Lockwoods are vile cabinets. As you might expect from a coffin maker.


I still use a pair of 2 inch Monitor Golds to this
day. Best speakers ever invented IMHO.

You must be deaf. I got that impression about quite a few people at Neve,
especially those in the top jobs. Deaf, incompetent or just not bothered sums them
up.

Graahm

"Woody" wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Eeyore rabbitsfriendsandrel
scribeth thus


Woody wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

It occurred to me when fitting some new car speakers that a dual
concentric design would be ideal for this use. But they all seem to
have
tweeters just stuck on the front. Any reason why this design has
fallen
out of favour?

**Perhaps people have finally discovered what I found a few decades
ago: They sound like ****. Given that midrange frequencies are being
bounced off the back of the tweeter, the result ends up sounding like
a pig's breakfast. I've never heard a decent dual concentric car
speaker. Perhaps it's due to the shockingly bad crossovers used.
Maybe
it's just the cheap, crappy drivers.


Also perhaps to do with the fact that the stereo 'information' is
carried by the higher frequencies which are lost in the carpet and
seats
in most cars so many manufacturers have gone for seperate mid-high
speakers (not just tweeters) in the ends of the dash or the top corners
of the doors. It also means that they can then fit lower quality
speakers that do not need to handle full range in the doors and get
what
the punter perceives to be better quality (i.e. more bass.)

You didn't seriously imagine that it's possible to get a proper stereo
image
in a car did you?

Graham


No course not!.. but there is a very pleasant difference in my car a 10
Y/O old Audi A6 betwixt Mono and Stereo which makes that worthwhile;!...
--
Tony Sayer



That's what I really meant.

It is surprising when you have a DAB/FM radio in the car and you switch
between the same station in the different formats (or the radio does it
itself) how often the FM reception is in mono because the signal strength
is too low - the only advantage of DAB I suppose as it is always in stereo
with good separation if you can hear it. ClassicFM and especially choral
show it up inbcredibly well.

I've been told that it's very lacking in dynamic range and when listening to
Radio 3, quiet bits in the music can become silent bits...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Woody
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrel
scribeth thus


Woody wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

It occurred to me when fitting some new car speakers that a
dual
concentric design would be ideal for this use. But they all
seem
to
have
tweeters just stuck on the front. Any reason why this design
has
fallen
out of favour?

**Perhaps people have finally discovered what I found a few
decades
ago: They sound like ****. Given that midrange frequencies are
being
bounced off the back of the tweeter, the result ends up sounding
like
a pig's breakfast. I've never heard a decent dual concentric car
speaker. Perhaps it's due to the shockingly bad crossovers used.
Maybe
it's just the cheap, crappy drivers.


Also perhaps to do with the fact that the stereo 'information' is
carried by the higher frequencies which are lost in the carpet and
seats
in most cars so many manufacturers have gone for seperate mid-high
speakers (not just tweeters) in the ends of the dash or the top
corners
of the doors. It also means that they can then fit lower quality
speakers that do not need to handle full range in the doors and
get
what
the punter perceives to be better quality (i.e. more bass.)

You didn't seriously imagine that it's possible to get a proper
stereo
image
in a car did you?

Graham


No course not!.. but there is a very pleasant difference in my car a
10
Y/O old Audi A6 betwixt Mono and Stereo which makes that
worthwhile;!...
--
Tony Sayer



That's what I really meant.

It is surprising when you have a DAB/FM radio in the car and you
switch
between the same station in the different formats (or the radio does
it
itself) how often the FM reception is in mono because the signal
strength is too low - the only advantage of DAB I suppose as it is
always in stereo with good separation if you can hear it.

When it is;(..


ClassicFM and
especially choral show it up inbcredibly well.

Wot abaht the Jazz;?...



--
Tony Sayer




Cos, Tone, theJazz is transmitted in 80K mono ........MONO in this day
and age!!!!


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

Eeyore wrote:


You must be deaf. I got that impression about quite a few people at Neve,
especially those in the top jobs. Deaf, incompetent or just not bothered sums them
up.



I am 57 now and I am beginning to go deaf. I certainly wasn't deaf in
the 70s - wish I could as well as that now.

Seems like you never had any manners though.

Nuff Said

Ian

"Ian Thompson-Bell" wrote in message
...
Trevor Wilson wrote:

Having said that, I can't get
excited about any dual concentric driver I've ever heard. Including the
much vaunted Tannoys.

Trevor Wilson

Dunno why.

**I do. They 'honk'.

The Tannoy Monitor Gold series are stunning in their stereo
stage management.

**Perhaps. They do so many other things wrong, though.

I heard them a lot in UK studios in the 70s and the
only thing that came anywhere near then were the big JBls. We had 15 inch
Golds in huge Lockwood cabinets on wheels at Neve for checking the sound
of consoles. I still use a pair of 2 inch Monitor Golds to this day. Best
speakers ever invented IMHO.

**That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Speakers tend to be a
personal choice product. What works for one person, doesn't for another. I
don't like dual concentric speakers. Mind you: I am partial to a properly
executed and set up pair of ESLs.

Trevor Wilson

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

You must be deaf. I got that impression about quite a few people at Neve,
especially those in the top jobs. Deaf, incompetent or just not bothered sums them
up.

I am 57 now and I am beginning to go deaf. I certainly wasn't deaf in
the 70s - wish I could as well as that now.

Seems like you never had any manners though.

I'm not one for 'doffing my cap' in the usual English defential manner to those who like
to present themselves as my 'betters' who are actually clueless. Paying homage to
ancient and miserable sounding Tannoys is another thing I won't stomach.

I was appalled at the level of disinterest in audio within the 'board' at Neve. That's
one reason I quit after about 3 years as a project leader. I could see they were heading
for failure, and indeed it was so.

Graham