Valerian Vinyl
 

There were a number of very interesting new releases on
vinyl last year. One of the most important of these
is the double album "Ray Sings, Basie Swings",which is
especially significant because it sounds like a genuine
collaboration, although it never actually took place.

The vocals were "peeled off" from tapes of some
Ray Charles' recorded concerts given in Germany
and in London during the 1970's. The overall mix and
the sound of the band was not good enough for release,
so the Count Basie Orchestra directed by Bill Hughes,
recorded new backing tracks for the Ray Charles vocals.
The result is quite staggering. It is very hard to believe
that the elements of this homogenous recording were
made thirty years apart!

The double album, which is a numbered limited edition, is
presented in a handsome gate-fold sleeve, with a detailed
booklet about the project, and colour reproductions of the
famous oil-paintings of Ray Charles and Bill Basie by Bruni.
It's a very tactile package!

There are 12 vocal titles, plus an additional instrumental track
(written by Ray Charles) "Them That Got". The titles include:
"Let the Good Times Roll", "Busted", "Crying Time". "I Can't
Stop Loving You", "The Long and Winding Road" and of course
"Georgia".

Ray Charles vocals are fresh and invigorating - even though he
must have sung every one of these titles many thousands of times.
The brass, saxes and rhythm section swing with precision. There
is a fine tenor saxophone solo by Doug Lawrence on track 9
(Side C band 2) "Feel So Bad"

No Ray Charles recording would be complete without the
vocal group The Raelettes. Patti Austin was contracted to write
the vocal arrangements and lead the singers. Magic!
Particularly good on Track 4 (Side B band 1)
"Every Saturday Night"

Don't expect any sparse tinkling single-line Basie-type piano
solos, pianist Tony Suggs plays in his own style, as does Joey
DeFrancesco on Hammond B3 (both play excellent solos on
"I Can't Stop Loving You"

The pressings are on 180 gr vinyl, with a total running time of
52 mins. The disc was mastered half-speed by Stan Ricker. The
surface is excellent, and due to the course groove pitch, the peak
levels are some 3-4dB higher than normal on vinyl, which also
enhances an already good SNR.

My local dealer had twenty copies of this double album.
He sold them all in a day!

Anyone interested in direct mail order, can buy from
Elusive Discs in the USA. They have a most interesting selection
of recent vinyl releases.

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo....mber=PALP012BK


--
Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

There were a number of very interesting new releases on
vinyl last year. One of the most important of these
is the double album "Ray Sings, Basie Swings",which is
especially significant because it sounds like a genuine
collaboration, although it never actually took place.


Reminds me that nearly 50 years ago my grandfather once told me 'Don't
believe half of what you see or anything of what you hear!'

- And that was long before 'digital anything'...!!!

Valerian Vinyl
 

Iain Churches wrote:
There were a number of very interesting new releases on
vinyl last year. One of the most important of these
is the double album "Ray Sings, Basie Swings",which is
especially significant because it sounds like a genuine
collaboration, although it never actually took place.

The vocals were "peeled off" from tapes of some
Ray Charles' recorded concerts given in Germany
and in London during the 1970's. The overall mix and
the sound of the band was not good enough for release,
so the Count Basie Orchestra directed by Bill Hughes,
recorded new backing tracks for the Ray Charles vocals.
The result is quite staggering. It is very hard to believe
that the elements of this homogenous recording were
made thirty years apart!

The double album, which is a numbered limited edition, is
presented in a handsome gate-fold sleeve, with a detailed
booklet about the project, and colour reproductions of the
famous oil-paintings of Ray Charles and Bill Basie by Bruni.
It's a very tactile package!

There are 12 vocal titles, plus an additional instrumental track
(written by Ray Charles) "Them That Got". The titles include:
"Let the Good Times Roll", "Busted", "Crying Time". "I Can't
Stop Loving You", "The Long and Winding Road" and of course
"Georgia".

Ray Charles vocals are fresh and invigorating - even though he
must have sung every one of these titles many thousands of times.
The brass, saxes and rhythm section swing with precision. There
is a fine tenor saxophone solo by Doug Lawrence on track 9
(Side C band 2) "Feel So Bad"

No Ray Charles recording would be complete without the
vocal group The Raelettes. Patti Austin was contracted to write
the vocal arrangements and lead the singers. Magic!
Particularly good on Track 4 (Side B band 1)
"Every Saturday Night"

Don't expect any sparse tinkling single-line Basie-type piano
solos, pianist Tony Suggs plays in his own style, as does Joey
DeFrancesco on Hammond B3 (both play excellent solos on
"I Can't Stop Loving You"

The pressings are on 180 gr vinyl, with a total running time of
52 mins. The disc was mastered half-speed by Stan Ricker. The
surface is excellent, and due to the course groove pitch, the peak
levels are some 3-4dB higher than normal on vinyl, which also
enhances an already good SNR.

My local dealer had twenty copies of this double album.
He sold them all in a day!

Anyone interested in direct mail order, can buy from
Elusive Discs in the USA. They have a most interesting selection
of recent vinyl releases.

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo....mber=PALP012BK


--
Iain

Mmm, interesting. I have some Ellington, and maybe some Basie too,
from masters made when they toured the Eastern Seaboard colleges, and
issued decades later on CD. The recording quality is less wretched
than you might expect but the authentic quality of the music makes up
for the technical downside; in any event, I'm not an audiophile, I'm
more interested in the music than the pure sound. With those old
recordings the authority of the performers is stamped on the
performance quite beyond even the grimmest of recording circumstances.

Andre Jute
Substance before presentation

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

There were a number of very interesting new releases on
vinyl last year. One of the most important of these
is the double album "Ray Sings, Basie Swings",which is
especially significant because it sounds like a genuine
collaboration, although it never actually took place.


Reminds me that nearly 50 years ago my grandfather once told me 'Don't
believe half of what you see or anything of what you hear!'

- And that was long before 'digital anything'...!!!

This has long been so in film television and now the ability to
produce silk purses from sows' ears in digital recording makes
this old adage even more relevant to music.

A large format digital workstation may have an infinite
number of virtual tracks, which means than one can
record a vocal or a guitar solo over and over, for days
on end, and then if none of them is totally satisfactory,
one can build a composite track, with cut and paste
(just like a word processor:-) to make a complete, but
usually not homogenous, take.

The most common problem that singers have is intonation,
particularly in recording when wearing headphones. Their
sense of pitch is greatly affected by the balance between
the backing track and the vocal, and many need to be able
to hear their own voice "naturel" (Remember the famous
record sleeve of folk singer Ewan McColl with one hand
cupped around his ear?)

One can tune a piano, a guitar, a saxophone, but
tuning a voice is not so easy:-) I am currently involved
in a project where one of my colleagues has the unenviable
task of "re-pitching" parts of a composite vocal track to
get them in tune. In digital, it is possible to pitch shift
without affecting tempo. This will take him about a week!

But the Ray Charles/Count Basie project does not fall into this
category at all. The vocals, brilliant performances from the 70s
when Ray Charles was at his peak, are an entity in themselves, and
the band has been added to turn this into one of the best albums I
have ever heard.

Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
But the Ray Charles/Count Basie project does not fall into this
category at all. The vocals, brilliant performances from the 70s
when Ray Charles was at his peak, are an entity in themselves, and
the band has been added to turn this into one of the best albums I
have ever heard.

Dunno if you heard the recent R4 prog about Bing Crosby, but he refused
to be placed in a vocal booth or work with a pre-recorded track which
ruled out over-dubbing. He insisted on being 'in there' with the orchestra
despite some recording engineers later in his career telling him it
wouldn't work. His reply was 'it always used to'...

I've long been a lover of the recorded 'all in one' warts and all - when
it works well it usually has far more of a sense of occasion than the
sanitized multi-track studio stuff. Indeed sometimes a genuine live
performance in front of an audience. Although these are more rare. And
tend to be restricted to some artists that actually enjoy performing to an
audience.

--
*Toilet stolen from police station. Cops have nothing to go on.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Dunno if you heard the recent R4 prog about Bing Crosby, but he refused
to be placed in a vocal booth or work with a pre-recorded track which
ruled out over-dubbing. He insisted on being 'in there' with the orchestra
despite some recording engineers later in his career telling him it
wouldn't work. His reply was 'it always used to'...

About 20 years ago there was a TV documentary about the making of the DG
album of West Side Story with opera starts such as Kiri Te Kanawa and Jose
Carreras and conducted by Bernstein himself. I still have my off-air
recording of the documentary.

What surprised me was that although it was a multi-track recording using
many microphones, and in short takes subsequently edited together, it was
recorded with all the musicians, including the singers, in the same space
and performing at the same time.

I've long been a lover of the recorded 'all in one' warts and all - when
it works well it usually has far more of a sense of occasion than the
sanitized multi-track studio stuff.

Agreed.

David.

Valerian Vinyl
 

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:48:31 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:

About 20 years ago there was a TV documentary about the making of the DG
album of West Side Story with opera starts such as Kiri Te Kanawa and Jose
Carreras and conducted by Bernstein himself. I still have my off-air
recording of the documentary.

What surprised me was that although it was a multi-track recording using
many microphones, and in short takes subsequently edited together, it was
recorded with all the musicians, including the singers, in the same space
and performing at the same time.

That's how you do opera.

A most peculiar project, wasn't it? Opera singers who couldn't cope
with the rhythms and a Tony who sounded more Hispanic than any of the
Sharks! The only number that survives is "Krupke" to my mind.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:48:31 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:

About 20 years ago there was a TV documentary about the making of the DG
album of West Side Story with opera starts such as Kiri Te Kanawa and Jose
Carreras and conducted by Bernstein himself. I still have my off-air
recording of the documentary.

What surprised me was that although it was a multi-track recording using
many microphones, and in short takes subsequently edited together, it was
recorded with all the musicians, including the singers, in the same space
and performing at the same time.

That's how you do opera.

I'll take your word for it.

A most peculiar project, wasn't it? Opera singers who couldn't cope
with the rhythms and a Tony who sounded more Hispanic than any of the
Sharks! The only number that survives is "Krupke" to my mind.

I agree. ISTM that Te Kanawa and Carreras were both hired because they were
big names rather than because they were suitable for the roles. IMO neither
sounded right. I thought "America" also survived quite well though.

I was also amused by Bernstein's enthusiastic praise for the score. A
certain lack of modesty there I thought. :-)

David.


David.

Valerian Vinyl
 

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:33:17 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:

That's how you do opera.

I'll take your word for it.

A most peculiar project, wasn't it? Opera singers who couldn't cope
with the rhythms and a Tony who sounded more Hispanic than any of the
Sharks! The only number that survives is "Krupke" to my mind.

I agree. ISTM that Te Kanawa and Carreras were both hired because they were
big names rather than because they were suitable for the roles.

Again - that's how you do opera :-)
I'm not entirely tongue-in-cheek when I suggest the Broadway Musical
is the higher art-form. It's an opera where words, character and
acting matter.

IMO neither
sounded right. I thought "America" also survived quite well though.

I was also amused by Bernstein's enthusiastic praise for the score. A
certain lack of modesty there I thought. :-)

He may have had faults, but modesty was never one of them.

Valerian Vinyl
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
But the Ray Charles/Count Basie project does not fall into this
category at all. The vocals, brilliant performances from the 70s
when Ray Charles was at his peak, are an entity in themselves, and
the band has been added to turn this into one of the best albums I
have ever heard.

Dunno if you heard the recent R4 prog about Bing Crosby, but he refused
to be placed in a vocal booth or work with a pre-recorded track which
ruled out over-dubbing. He insisted on being 'in there' with the orchestra
despite some recording engineers later in his career telling him it
wouldn't work. His reply was 'it always used to'...

I've long been a lover of the recorded 'all in one' warts and all - when
it works well it usually has far more of a sense of occasion than the
sanitized multi-track studio stuff. Indeed sometimes a genuine live
performance in front of an audience. Although these are more rare. And
tend to be restricted to some artists that actually enjoy performing to an
audience.


I've bought a fair few albums off the back of a Jools Holland 'Later'
performance and been pretty disappointed with the CD version, or LP come
to that. The sound often seems 'unbalanced' compared to the live version.

Rob

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
Rob wrote:
I've long been a lover of the recorded 'all in one' warts and all -
when it works well it usually has far more of a sense of occasion than
the sanitized multi-track studio stuff. Indeed sometimes a genuine
live performance in front of an audience. Although these are more
rare. And tend to be restricted to some artists that actually enjoy
performing to an audience.


I've bought a fair few albums off the back of a Jools Holland 'Later'
performance and been pretty disappointed with the CD version, or LP come
to that. The sound often seems 'unbalanced' compared to the live version.

Indeed. Mike Felton (the sound supervisor) has to be congratulated on the
high standard of his work on these shows. Truly 'live' music on TV is a
rare occurrence these days.

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...

About 20 years ago there was a TV documentary about the making of the DG
album of West Side Story with opera starts such as Kiri Te Kanawa and Jose
Carreras and conducted by Bernstein himself. I still have my off-air
recording of the documentary.

What surprised me was that although it was a multi-track recording using
many microphones, and in short takes subsequently edited together, it was
recorded with all the musicians, including the singers, in the same space
and performing at the same time.


I worked on the studio recording of the Bernard Shaw's
"Pygmalion" (My Fair Lady) with the London theatre cast,
Alec McGowan, Diana Rigg, Bob Hoskins, It was recorded
in just the way you describe. This was the only
sensible way to do it:-)

Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

--
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Dunno if you heard the recent R4 prog about Bing Crosby, but he refused
to be placed in a vocal booth or work with a pre-recorded track which
ruled out over-dubbing. He insisted on being 'in there' with the orchestra
despite some recording engineers later in his career telling him it
wouldn't work. His reply was 'it always used to'...

Big was signed to Decca. I had the pleasure of working with him on two
albums. He liked to sit in with the band and sing. No retakes or overdubs
were required, so why pre-record and have him in a vocal booth. The
band played a lot better with him out their with them, too:-)

I've long been a lover of the recorded 'all in one' warts and all - when
it works well it usually has far more of a sense of occasion than the
sanitized multi-track studio stuff. Indeed sometimes a genuine live
performance in front of an audience. Although these are more rare. And
tend to be restricted to some artists that actually enjoy performing to an
audience.

Agreed. The problem is that "warts and all" is fine for concerts,
as wrong notes, or intonation blemishes are over and forgotten
in a matter of seconds, as the visual reference tends to carry the
performance forward. But on a recording they grown and grow
with every playing of the recording, until one finds oneself waiting
for them!

Multi-track, whether analogue for digital gives possibililies
which one cannot even consider when using a crossed
or co-incidental pair, or recording in concert.

Consider a track where you require a dry close sound for the
saxes and a 2sec reverb plus a short repeat on trumpets but
not trombones. How ya gonna do that with your crossed
pair Dave??

Regards
Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:15:11 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

I worked on the studio recording of the Bernard Shaw's
"Pygmalion" (My Fair Lady) with the London theatre cast,
Alec McGowan, Diana Rigg, Bob Hoskins, It was recorded
in just the way you describe. This was the only
sensible way to do it:-)


In some circles there's an assumption that "norma"l recording
procedure is to track everyone separately. I think it's "normal" to
play the music and put some microphones in front of it. Generation
thing, I suppose :-)

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:15:11 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

I worked on the studio recording of the Bernard Shaw's
"Pygmalion" (My Fair Lady) with the London theatre cast,
Alec McGowan, Diana Rigg, Bob Hoskins, It was recorded
in just the way you describe. This was the only
sensible way to do it:-)


In some circles there's an assumption that "norma"l recording
procedure is to track everyone separately. I think it's "normal" to
play the music and put some microphones in front of it. Generation
thing, I suppose :-)

Indeed. Much depends on the genre. Even to this day the
record-buying public have very little idea of how records are
actually made. Not a lot has changed since the bright young
journalist from Cosmopolitan asked me in the late 70's:
"How many albums do you make in a day?"
This was during a Ginger Baker project that
had been going on round the clock for some ten weeks.

You can record multi-microphone without multi-track.
This requires balancing say twenty mics to straight stereo with
no possibility afterwards to "fix it in the mix". Such skill
is now rare. Light music was invariably recorded this way.

Classical music is usually recorded straight stereo with a
pair or tree of three to five mics. This too is a lot more
difficult than it sounds.

Multitrack evolved very quickly. The Ampex 4 track
allowed one to record a backing track over two,
and keep a pair for vocals. By modern standards,
where the digital DAW can have an almost infinite number of
virtual tracks, this may sound pretty basic. But remember
that one of the greatest pop recordings of all time, "Sgt Pepper"
was recorded on a Studer J37 (four tracks on 1") with sub
mixes bounced from machine to machine while adding new
material. Much of the early Moody Blues material, in some
ways even more complex was also made in this way.

By the mid sixties, 8 track on 1" was common. What a
quantum leap! One could now put the Bass and Bass
drum on separate tracks!

As technology progressed, LTC (longitudinal time code)
allowed us to lock two or more machines together,
so one could make 30 track extravaganzas:-)
Whether or not this was a good or bad thing is open
to debate.

By the early eighties, we had reached the stage where
drum tracks for pop recordings (not rock) were put down
one track at a time, to a click track. Doof, doof, doof
for 3 mins (that was the bass drum) Then the snare,
um, WHACK, um, WHACK, etc etc. Then the hi hat,
um TISH, um TISH, then the three toms, DING,
BING, BONG, then the overheads cyms, CRASH,
ZWISH. You get the idea? Nine tracks in
all of just drums with 100% separation, in rock-solid time
but totally lacking in feel:-( It took the greater part of a
very tedious morning to put down a three minute drum track.

Backing tracks, including backing vocals, and even
instrumental solos were recorded without anyone of
the performers having actually heard vocal line!

Many's the time I have heard a producer say to a pretty
young thing who should really have been working as a
fast-food waitress: "Do your best, luv. Don't worry
too much about the pitch and the timing. We can fix all that"

But it's still a great business :-)

Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:
I worked on the studio recording of the Bernard Shaw's
"Pygmalion" (My Fair Lady) with the London theatre cast,
Alec McGowan, Diana Rigg, Bob Hoskins, It was recorded
in just the way you describe. This was the only
sensible way to do it:-)


In some circles there's an assumption that "norma"l recording
procedure is to track everyone separately. I think it's "normal" to
play the music and put some microphones in front of it. Generation
thing, I suppose :-)

Any musical of that type should be able to be recorded in a simple way.
After all, they are intended to be watched live

--
*Acupuncture is a jab well done*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
I've long been a lover of the recorded 'all in one' warts and all -
when it works well it usually has far more of a sense of occasion than
the sanitized multi-track studio stuff. Indeed sometimes a genuine
live performance in front of an audience. Although these are more
rare. And tend to be restricted to some artists that actually enjoy
performing to an audience.

Agreed. The problem is that "warts and all" is fine for concerts, as
wrong notes, or intonation blemishes are over and forgotten in a matter
of seconds, as the visual reference tends to carry the performance
forward. But on a recording they grown and grow with every playing of
the recording, until one finds oneself waiting for them!

Multi-track, whether analogue for digital gives possibililies
which one cannot even consider when using a crossed
or co-incidental pair, or recording in concert.

Consider a track where you require a dry close sound for the
saxes and a 2sec reverb plus a short repeat on trumpets but
not trombones. How ya gonna do that with your crossed
pair Dave??

Didn't realise you only thought in 'crossed pairs' for all in one
recordings. Were your eyes firmly closed when you worked for Mr Crosby?

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

On Jan 10, 7:19*pm, Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com
wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:15:11 +0200, "Iain Churches"

wrote:
I worked on the studio recording of the Bernard Shaw's
"Pygmalion" *(My Fair Lady) *with the London theatre cast,
Alec McGowan, Diana Rigg, Bob Hoskins, It was recorded
in just the way you describe. *This was the only
sensible way to do it:-)

In some circles there's an assumption that "norma"l recording
procedure is to track everyone separately. *I think it's "normal" to
play the music and put some microphones in front of it. * Generation
thing, I suppose :-)

Wasn't the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper, at the time thought to be
innovative, recorded on a four-track machine? Some of the rockers down
the road here probably weren't even born before four-track machines
became obsolete. They'd think playing the music and putting some mikes
in front of it an abrogation of their right of free expression of
their lowest common denonimator lack of taste.

The poorest years of the Berliner were those after Karajan got an
unhealthy, taste-threatening dose of technynerdfreak disease.

Andre Jute
If only history would repeat itself...

Valerian Vinyl
 

--
Iain
Aural perception is a skill that requires study and careful development over
along period of time. Few have it as a natural gift.
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
I've long been a lover of the recorded 'all in one' warts and all -
when it works well it usually has far more of a sense of occasion than
the sanitized multi-track studio stuff. Indeed sometimes a genuine
live performance in front of an audience. Although these are more
rare. And tend to be restricted to some artists that actually enjoy
performing to an audience.

Agreed. The problem is that "warts and all" is fine for concerts, as
wrong notes, or intonation blemishes are over and forgotten in a matter
of seconds, as the visual reference tends to carry the performance
forward. But on a recording they grown and grow with every playing of
the recording, until one finds oneself waiting for them!

Multi-track, whether analogue for digital gives possibililies
which one cannot even consider when using a crossed
or co-incidental pair, or recording in concert.

Consider a track where you require a dry close sound for the
saxes and a 2sec reverb plus a short repeat on trumpets but
not trombones. How ya gonna do that with your crossed
pair Dave??

Didn't realise you only thought in 'crossed pairs' for all in one
recordings. Were your eyes firmly closed when you worked for Mr Crosby?

Think about it.
You do not seem to understand the concept/application of multi
mic/multi track recording.

Sessions like Crosby could well be have been done with a crossed
pair plus two, and a modified studio layout, but that is not the way
light-popular music was (or is) made.

Regards
Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 7:19 pm, Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com
wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:15:11 +0200, "Iain Churches"

wrote:
I worked on the studio recording of the Bernard Shaw's
"Pygmalion" (My Fair Lady) with the London theatre cast,
Alec McGowan, Diana Rigg, Bob Hoskins, It was recorded
in just the way you describe. This was the only
sensible way to do it:-)

In some circles there's an assumption that "norma"l recording
procedure is to track everyone separately. I think it's "normal" to
play the music and put some microphones in front of it. Generation
thing, I suppose :-)

Wasn't the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper, at the time thought to be
innovative, recorded on a four-track machine?

Yes indeed. Or rather a pair of them. Studer J37's - four tracks
on 1" with tube amps:-)

The technique, was to record on four tracks, and then to bounce
(submix) these four to two tracks of the second machine while adding
more mics. This way, you carefully build up the complete song.
It required considerable skill and forward planning. There are no
levels of "undo", and no possibility to "fix it in the mix"

Regards to all

Iain
May God protect you from his followers.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

In some circles there's an assumption that "norma"l recording
procedure is to track everyone separately. I think it's "normal" to
play the music and put some microphones in front of it. Generation
thing, I suppose :-)

Any musical of that type should be able to be recorded in a simple way.
After all, they are intended to be watched live


There is nothing *simple* about it, as you would know
if you had ever tried to balance a 60 piece orchestra, soloists
and opera choir on a crossed pair with outriggers.

Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

In some circles there's an assumption that "norma"l recording
procedure is to track everyone separately. I think it's "normal" to
play the music and put some microphones in front of it. Generation
thing, I suppose :-)

Any musical of that type should be able to be recorded in a simple way.
After all, they are intended to be watched live


There is nothing *simple* about it, as you would know
if you had ever tried to balance a 60 piece orchestra, soloists
and opera choir on a crossed pair with outriggers.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

When West Side Story was first produced there would have been little in
the way of sound reinforcement in the venue - probably limited to just
lead vocals. Everything else would be heard 'live' by the audience.

So everything from the line up of the orchestra to the arrangements of the
score revolve around this. If you start out with an inherently decently
balanced subject recording becomes somewhat easier.
Of course once you go to screening off the orch into sections etc for
recording you can make one violin dominate open brass. The accountant's
dream.

--
*Don't byte off more than you can view *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
As technology progressed, LTC (longitudinal time code)
allowed us to lock two or more machines together,
so one could make 30 track extravaganzas:-)
Whether or not this was a good or bad thing is open
to debate.

SMPTE code - to give it its correct name - wasn't the first method of
locking machines together. Other codes which allowed chase lock - albeit
to a more limited extent - were around before it. And of course film
transports had been doing this for many a year before it was managed for
capstan driven devices.

Nor was SMPTE code the perfect answer to locking machines - they didn't
remain phase coherent. But then neither did any analogue multi-track
across its own tracks anyway. ;-)

--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...


But remember
that one of the greatest pop recordings of all time, "Sgt Pepper"
was recorded on a Studer J37 (four tracks on 1") with sub
mixes bounced from machine to machine while adding new
material.

I used a technique not entirely dissimilar to that to make soundtracks for
Super8 amateur films in the 1970s. Two Revox, a Uher, a small mixer and an
8mm projector with pulse-sync was all the kit I had at my disposal.

Location sound, recorded on the Uher, was edited to run in sync with the
picture. This was then replayed on one Revox and copied onto the second
whilst new material (music, effects, voice-over) was replayed from the Uher
and mixed in. The copy then becomes the master and off we go again with the
next layer. Since one channel of each machine was reserved for the pulse
track I only had one track to use for audio.

God was it tedious!

David.

Valerian Vinyl
 

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:59:08 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...


But remember
that one of the greatest pop recordings of all time, "Sgt Pepper"
was recorded on a Studer J37 (four tracks on 1") with sub
mixes bounced from machine to machine while adding new
material.

I used a technique not entirely dissimilar to that to make soundtracks for
Super8 amateur films in the 1970s. Two Revox, a Uher, a small mixer and an
8mm projector with pulse-sync was all the kit I had at my disposal.

Location sound, recorded on the Uher, was edited to run in sync with the
picture. This was then replayed on one Revox and copied onto the second
whilst new material (music, effects, voice-over) was replayed from the Uher
and mixed in. The copy then becomes the master and off we go again with the
next layer. Since one channel of each machine was reserved for the pulse
track I only had one track to use for audio.

God was it tedious!

David.


I presume everybody has seen this piece of pure magic by now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezw_4YTIa8M

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...

I presume everybody has seen this piece of pure magic by now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezw_4YTIa8M

Wasn't he the guy who was credited with inventing the Electric Guitar?

A talented man!

David.

Valerian Vinyl
 

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:40:18 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...

I presume everybody has seen this piece of pure magic by now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezw_4YTIa8M

Wasn't he the guy who was credited with inventing the Electric Guitar?

A talented man!

David.


That's the man. When he was young his arm got broken in a bar car
crash. The surgeons wanted to amputate, but he persuaded them to set
it with a locked elbow in just the right position to let him carry on
playing. On balance a good choice, I'd say.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

In some circles there's an assumption that "norma"l recording
procedure is to track everyone separately. I think it's "normal" to
play the music and put some microphones in front of it. Generation
thing, I suppose :-)

Any musical of that type should be able to be recorded in a simple way.
After all, they are intended to be watched live


There is nothing *simple* about it, as you would know
if you had ever tried to balance a 60 piece orchestra, soloists
and opera choir on a crossed pair with outriggers.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No. I am speaking from years of experience recording
music in straight stereo and multimic/multritrack
formats.

When West Side Story was first produced there would have been little in
the way of sound reinforcement in the venue - probably limited to just
lead vocals. Everything else would be heard 'live' by the audience.

You seem to be confusing live sound with studio recording, and
conveniently forgetting the visual reference which props up poor
sound. One sees/hears this daily on TV. It is a well-known
phenomenon.

I used to be quite an avid fan of the Michael Parkinson Show, and
was particularly interested by the Laurie Holloway arrangements for
the band. I used to ask one of my pals at broadcast to make a DAT
for me, and looked forward to picking up the Saturday night show
audio recording the following Monday. Sad to say, I was usually
disappointed just hearing the band, (the playing was sometimes not
as good as it could have been, and the balance left much to be
desired) though with picture, the whole audiovisual performance
seemed to work well.

The BBC are better at concept recordings than most, but with the
exception of the Henry Wood concerts, even they don't manage to
shine as often as they would probably like to. We all understand
the pressures of budget, and that sound has always been the poor
relation to picture.


So everything from the line up of the orchestra to the arrangements of the
score revolve around this. If you start out with an inherently decently
balanced subject recording becomes somewhat easier.


Of course once you go to screening off the orch into sections etc for
recording you can make one violin dominate open brass.

Yes. I have seen the plastic screens on TV around the drums,
and the mics clipped to the music stands for the tiny string
sections:-((

My point was about being able to use different treatments for
various sections of the orchestra. Take a careful look at say
a Mike Westbrook or Kenny Clarke score, and perhaps you
will start to understand what is required, and why such material
can be played with only moderate success in concert. The detail is
usually only heard in a studio recording. Countless examples
come to mind, but one, in a Francy Boland score, with a piccolo
figure against four trumpets, four trombones and fives saxes
playing full bore, against a driving rhythm section should give
you an idea what you need to be able to achieve.



Regards
Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
As technology progressed, LTC (longitudinal time code)
allowed us to lock two or more machines together,
so one could make 30 track extravaganzas:-)
Whether or not this was a good or bad thing is open
to debate.

SMPTE code - to give it its correct name - wasn't the first method of
locking machines together. Other codes which allowed chase lock - albeit
to a more limited extent - were around before it. And of course film
transports had been doing this for many a year before it was managed for
capstan driven devices.

Nor was SMPTE code the perfect answer to locking machines - they didn't
remain phase coherent. But then neither did any analogue multi-track
across its own tracks anyway. ;-)

Time code on analogue audio recorders is generally referred
to as LTC, to distinguish it from VITC (also SMPTE)

Anything that required track to track phase coherency is recorded
as a pair on adjacent inner tracks, (strings for example on tracks11+12)
The phase between track 1 (Bass drum) and track 23 (lead vocal)
is of little or no consequence:-)

No cigar, Dave!

Regards
Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
SMPTE code - to give it its correct name - wasn't the first method of
locking machines together. Other codes which allowed chase lock -
albeit to a more limited extent - were around before it. And of course
film transports had been doing this for many a year before it was
managed for capstan driven devices.

Nor was SMPTE code the perfect answer to locking machines - they didn't
remain phase coherent. But then neither did any analogue multi-track
across its own tracks anyway. ;-)

Time code on analogue audio recorders is generally referred
to as LTC, to distinguish it from VITC (also SMPTE)

No it's not - or certainly not in TV - as Vertical Interval Time Code can
only be recorded as part of a video signal, so has no purpose in analogue
audio recorders. And of course most video recorders also use LTC when on
the move - the main use of VITC is to give accurate positioning when the
video recorder is stationary or moving very slowly.

Anything that required track to track phase coherency is recorded
as a pair on adjacent inner tracks, (strings for example on tracks11+12)
The phase between track 1 (Bass drum) and track 23 (lead vocal)
is of little or no consequence:-)

So you say. Others might differ.

Have you ever actually used a TC locked analogue multi-track, Ian? No
one in their right mind would put the lead vocal next to the TC track.

--
*If all is not lost, where the hell is it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...
:
: Many's the time I have heard a producer say to a pretty
: young thing who should really have been working as a
: fast-food waitress: "Do your best, luv. Don't worry
: too much about the pitch and the timing. We can fix all
that"
:
: But it's still a great business :-)
:
: Iain
:
Is that before or after she got her knickers off? ;-)

Cheers TT

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
SMPTE code - to give it its correct name - wasn't the first method of
locking machines together. Other codes which allowed chase lock -
albeit to a more limited extent - were around before it. And of course
film transports had been doing this for many a year before it was
managed for capstan driven devices.

Nor was SMPTE code the perfect answer to locking machines - they didn't
remain phase coherent. But then neither did any analogue multi-track
across its own tracks anyway. ;-)

Time code on analogue audio recorders is generally referred
to as LTC, to distinguish it from VITC (also SMPTE)

No it's not - or certainly not in TV -

Look at the documentation for analogue audio material submission
within the EBU Dave. You will see a tick box marked LTC. With three
separate boxes for 25, 24 and DF. It does not say SMOTE:-)

I agree with you that the governing body goes by that name, but
the time code track is invariably referred to as LTC. Don't you
think that for a chap that repeatedly misspelled "Leevers Rich" you
are being a bit dogmatic:-)

as Vertical Interval Time Code can
only be recorded as part of a video signal, so has no purpose in analogue
audio recorders. And of course most video recorders also use LTC when on
the move - the main use of VITC is to give accurate positioning when the
video recorder is stationary or moving very slowly.


In audio post, most facilities can lock digital or analogue audio
tape recorders to picture with LTC or VITC. We do this
on a daily basis. VITC is especially useful in crawl or scrub
modes when you need to sync foley, or frame accurate effects.

Anything that required track to track phase coherency is recorded
as a pair on adjacent inner tracks, (strings for example on tracks11+12)
The phase between track 1 (Bass drum) and track 23 (lead vocal)
is of little or no consequence:-)

So you say. Others might differ.

Any text book, studio training manual, or recording arts teacher will
tell you this. Pairs (saxes, strings, drum top kits etc etc should always
be made on adjacent tracks. IIRC you will even find this stated in the
Ampex AG440 manual. Do I need to quote you chapter and verse?
Any control room assistant, with experience of music recording
knows this to be part of basic multitrack technique.

Have you ever actually used a TC locked analogue multi-track, Ian?

On many many hundreds of projects.

No
one in their right mind would put the lead vocal next to the TC track.

I can see nothing in my paragraph where I said TC was on trk 24. We
were talking about phase coherence between outer tracks.

In actual fact the tracks separation on the Studer A80/24/II is so good
that a guard track for the LTC is not required. These days, locking
analogue multi tracks with LTC is not often done, so one can use all
24 with impunity.

It is good practice to leave "end of group" tracks, i.e
tracks 8, 16 and 24 free for monitor effects, and bouncing.
I use track eight for example for gated snare reverb
or tambourine flutter echo. (No doubt you do the same:-)


Best regards
Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

I wrote:

Look at the documentation for analogue audio material submission
within the EBU Dave. You will see a tick box marked LTC. With three
separate boxes for 25, 24 and DF. It does not say SMOTE:-)

Apologies. My speeling choker changed SMPTE to "SMOTE" :-((

Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
Time code on analogue audio recorders is generally referred
to as LTC, to distinguish it from VITC (also SMPTE)

No it's not - or certainly not in TV -

Look at the documentation for analogue audio material submission
within the EBU Dave. You will see a tick box marked LTC. With three
separate boxes for 25, 24 and DF. It does not say SMOTE:-)

I'm forgetting you're new to this. When SMPTE code arrived there was no
VITC, so there was no need to differentiate. Nor does VITC have any
relevance to an analogue tape recorder. But I'm sure that wouldn't stop
the EBU bureaucrats making the same mistake as you.

I agree with you that the governing body goes by that name, but
the time code track is invariably referred to as LTC. Don't you
think that for a chap that repeatedly misspelled "Leevers Rich" you
are being a bit dogmatic:-)

Doncha just love it when someone who can't spell SMPTE criticizes others...

as Vertical Interval Time Code can only be recorded as part of a video
signal, so has no purpose in analogue audio recorders. And of course
most video recorders also use LTC when on the move - the main use of
VITC is to give accurate positioning when the video recorder is
stationary or moving very slowly.


In audio post, most facilities can lock digital or analogue audio
tape recorders to picture with LTC or VITC. We do this
on a daily basis. VITC is especially useful in crawl or scrub
modes when you need to sync foley, or frame accurate effects.

Indeed. In a decent analogue facility working to picture, the system will
use a *combination* of LTC and VITC - the LTC for high speed locking like
when spooling where a video machine can't reproduce VITC then change
automatically to VITC for frame accurate crawling.

Before VITC became available on lower priced VCRs, it was common to burn
in the TC as part of the picture on the dubbing copy. This allowed a MD
etc to get an exact frame for cueing purposes. If you still framed at the
correct place picture wise the LTC reading could be miles out.

Anything that required track to track phase coherency is recorded as
a pair on adjacent inner tracks, (strings for example on tracks11+12)
The phase between track 1 (Bass drum) and track 23 (lead vocal) is of
little or no consequence:-)

So you say. Others might differ.

Any text book, studio training manual, or recording arts teacher will
tell you this. Pairs (saxes, strings, drum top kits etc etc should
always be made on adjacent tracks. IIRC you will even find this stated
in the Ampex AG440 manual. Do I need to quote you chapter and verse? Any
control room assistant, with experience of music recording knows this
to be part of basic multitrack technique.

I was referring to your statement that phase between track 1 and 23
doesn't matter.

Have you ever actually used a TC locked analogue multi-track, Ian?

On many many hundreds of projects.

No
one in their right mind would put the lead vocal next to the TC track.

I can see nothing in my paragraph where I said TC was on trk 24. We
were talking about phase coherence between outer tracks.

Stop wriggling, Iain. You mention track 1 and 23 as carrying audio.
Therefore 24 has the code - which is the industry standard. And indeed any
multi-track worthy of the name has a dedicated TC track with special amps
to recover the code under arduous circumstances like spooling at high
speed - if designed for this use.

In actual fact the tracks separation on the Studer A80/24/II is so good
that a guard track for the LTC is not required.

Who said it was? I merely observed that only a fool would put the most
important track next to the TC one.

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:

When SMPTE code arrived there was no
VITC, so there was no need to differentiate. Nor does VITC have any
relevance to an analogue tape recorder. But I'm sure that wouldn't stop
the EBU bureaucrats making the same mistake as you.

So the EBU is wrong, and you, a freelance location
sound recordist, are right? LOL.

I agree with you that the governing body goes by that name, but
the time code track is invariably referred to as LTC. Don't you
think that for a chap that repeatedly misspelled "Leevers Rich" you
are being a bit dogmatic:-)

Doncha just love it when someone who can't spell SMPTE criticizes
others...

The spelling checker changed it to what it thought it
should have been. I posted a correction immediately.

Indeed. In a decent analogue facility working to picture, the system will
use a *combination* of LTC and VITC - the LTC for high speed locking like
when spooling where a video machine can't reproduce VITC then change
automatically to VITC for frame accurate crawling.

Just as I described.

Before VITC became available on lower priced VCRs, it was common to burn
in the TC as part of the picture on the dubbing copy. This allowed a MD
etc to get an exact frame for cueing purposes. If you still framed at the
correct place picture wise the LTC reading could be miles out.

This is still often done. Many producers and ad agencies, still have
an offline machine in their offices.

Any text book, studio training manual, or recording arts teacher will
tell you this. Pairs (saxes, strings, drum top kits etc etc should
always be made on adjacent tracks. IIRC you will even find this stated
in the Ampex AG440 manual. Do I need to quote you chapter and verse? Any
control room assistant, with experience of music recording knows this
to be part of basic multitrack technique.

I was referring to your statement that phase between track 1 and 23
doesn't matter.

It is not critical. Perhaps you can explain to me the need for coherence
between BD and a vocal track? :-)

Stop wriggling, Iain. You mention track 1 and 23 as carrying audio.
Therefore 24 has the code - which is the industry standard.

You are jumping to an totally incorrect conclusion, probably due to
lack of first hand experience of music recording.

And indeed any
multi-track worthy of the name has a dedicated TC track with special amps
to recover the code under arduous circumstances like spooling at high
speed - if designed for this use.

Sorry. You are wrong. the majority of music studios probably never use
LTC, and so they record on all 24 or leave submix and bouncing tracks
just as I described.

In actual fact the tracks separation on the Studer A80/24/II is so good
that a guard track for the LTC is not required.

Who said it was? I merely observed that only a fool would put the most
important track next to the TC one.

But in most cases there is no LTC. As a guard track is not required,
in practical terms, the low level TC is far less lightly to interfere with
the vocal than it is to be affected a Bass or BD track. Think about it.


Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:

When SMPTE code arrived there was no
VITC, so there was no need to differentiate. Nor does VITC have any
relevance to an analogue tape recorder. But I'm sure that wouldn't stop
the EBU bureaucrats making the same mistake as you.

So the EBU is wrong, and you, a freelance location
sound recordist, are right? LOL.


Just think about it, how can you record VITC when there is no video, and
thus no vertical interval, to record?

An ATR can *only* record LTC!

David.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...

Just think about it, how can you record VITC when there is no video, and
thus no vertical interval, to record?

An ATR can *only* record LTC!

Yes. That point was never in any doubt. VITC is useful in audio post when
audio workstations are locked to a picture master with a synchroniser,
and indispensibe when placing spot effects at crawl or scrub speeds,
or laying foley such as footsteps.

Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:

When SMPTE code arrived there was no
VITC, so there was no need to differentiate. Nor does VITC have any
relevance to an analogue tape recorder. But I'm sure that wouldn't stop
the EBU bureaucrats making the same mistake as you.

So the EBU is wrong, and you, a freelance location
sound recordist, are right? LOL.

Merely telling you what the industry practice is in the UK. Perhaps in
your small world they did call it 'LTC'. Nice and long winded to say.
Seems to have rubbed off...

But perhaps you'd answer my question about the relevance of LTC/VITC when
dealing with an analogue audio recorder? Even if 'the EBU' think there is?

I agree with you that the governing body goes by that name, but
the time code track is invariably referred to as LTC. Don't you
think that for a chap that repeatedly misspelled "Leevers Rich" you
are being a bit dogmatic:-)

Doncha just love it when someone who can't spell SMPTE criticizes
others...

The spelling checker changed it to what it thought it
should have been. I posted a correction immediately.

Of course. Blame the tools.

Indeed. In a decent analogue facility working to picture, the system
will use a *combination* of LTC and VITC - the LTC for high speed
locking like when spooling where a video machine can't reproduce VITC
then change automatically to VITC for frame accurate crawling.

Just as I described.

Before VITC became available on lower priced VCRs, it was common to
burn in the TC as part of the picture on the dubbing copy. This
allowed a MD etc to get an exact frame for cueing purposes. If you
still framed at the correct place picture wise the LTC reading could
be miles out.

This is still often done. Many producers and ad agencies, still have an
offline machine in their offices.

Any text book, studio training manual, or recording arts teacher will
tell you this. Pairs (saxes, strings, drum top kits etc etc should
always be made on adjacent tracks. IIRC you will even find this
stated in the Ampex AG440 manual. Do I need to quote you chapter and
verse? Any control room assistant, with experience of music
recording knows this to be part of basic multitrack technique.

I was referring to your statement that phase between track 1 and 23
doesn't matter.

It is not critical. Perhaps you can explain to me the need for coherence
between BD and a vocal track? :-)

If those were the only two instruments and multi-tracks were only used for
pop music

Stop wriggling, Iain. You mention track 1 and 23 as carrying audio.
Therefore 24 has the code - which is the industry standard.

You are jumping to an totally incorrect conclusion, probably due to
lack of first hand experience of music recording.

********. You dropped a clanger and as usual try to wriggle out of it.

And indeed any multi-track worthy of the name has a dedicated TC track
with special amps to recover the code under arduous circumstances like
spooling at high speed - if designed for this use.

Sorry. You are wrong. the majority of music studios probably never use
LTC, and so they record on all 24 or leave submix and bouncing tracks
just as I described.

The more you write the more I'm convinced you never worked in a high end
studio. A decent multi-track has a *switchable* code track that may be
used for either. Much more expensive of course. But near essential for
serious use.

In actual fact the tracks separation on the Studer A80/24/II is so
good that a guard track for the LTC is not required.

Who said it was? I merely observed that only a fool would put the most
important track next to the TC one.

But in most cases there is no LTC. As a guard track is not required, in
practical terms, the low level TC is far less lightly to interfere with
the vocal than it is to be affected a Bass or BD track. Think about it.

I have. And made no mention of what instruments, etc, to avoid next to the
code track. It's all pretty basic stuff for one used to working with time
code locked analogue machines. Which I apparently, as a lowly 'freelance
location sound recordist', have rather more experience of than you.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
So the EBU is wrong, and you, a freelance location
sound recordist, are right? LOL.


Just think about it, how can you record VITC when there is no video, and
thus no vertical interval, to record?

An ATR can *only* record LTC!

Indeed. Seems to have escaped Iain and apparently the EBU.

--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
Yes. That point was never in any doubt. VITC is useful in audio post
when audio workstations are locked to a picture master with a
synchroniser, and indispensibe when placing spot effects at crawl or
scrub speeds, or laying foley such as footsteps.

Surely you're not still working with a VTR for dubbing? How very quaint. I
was using non linear for this in the mid '90s. Saves a deal of time.

--
*Never test the depth of the water with both feet.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.