wrote in message


In my career in the audio industry most of the greatest
recent advances have indeed come from the lunatic fringe.

No, they were ported in from other industries.

There hasn't been any serious R&D in this field for over
two generations.

Agreed.

Most people don't realize that sound reproduction was the
equivalent of the "space race" during the 1920's and
30's. Most every topology, circuit, and interconnection
methodology can be directly traced back to the work of
Bell Labs and their competitors, much of it for military
applications.

True for analog and tubes, but not true for SS and digital.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message



Most people don't realize that sound reproduction was the
equivalent of the "space race" during the 1920's and
30's. Most every topology, circuit, and interconnection
methodology can be directly traced back to the work of
Bell Labs and their competitors, much of it for military
applications.

True for analog and tubes, but not true for SS and digital.

Not even true for "analog and tubes".

David.

David Looser wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote
wrote

Most people don't realize that sound reproduction was the
equivalent of the "space race" during the 1920's and
30's. Most every topology, circuit, and interconnection
methodology can be directly traced back to the work of
Bell Labs and their competitors, much of it for military
applications.

True for analog and tubes, but not true for SS and digital.

Not even true for "analog and tubes".

Absolutely definitely not true for sure.

Even NFB hadn't been 'invented' back then IIRC, so circuits ran open-loop
with truly horrible levels of distortion.

Graham

"David Looser" wrote in
message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message



Most people don't realize that sound reproduction was
the equivalent of the "space race" during the 1920's and
30's. Most every topology, circuit, and interconnection
methodology can be directly traced back to the work of
Bell Labs and their competitors, much of it for military
applications.

True for analog and tubes, but not true for SS and
digital.

Not even true for "analog and tubes".

Yes it was. The concepts of nonlinear distortion and bandwidth were indeed
developed by Bell Labs for the purpose of optimizing the telephone system.
Negative feedback for amplifiers was invented by Bell Labs to facilitate the
long distance telephone system. Bell Labs even developed the first good
methodologies for ensuring that NFB amplifiers were stable, partially
because they were the first adopted of NFB for amplifiers. It was
communications audio, but it was audio.

Home hi fi audio started out when people started liberating components from
movie theatres, PA systems, and telephone systems and using them to build
home audio systems.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"David Looser" wrote in

Not even true for "analog and tubes".

Yes it was.

At the risk of sounding like a pantomime - No it wasn't.

The concepts of nonlinear distortion and bandwidth were indeed
developed by Bell Labs for the purpose of optimizing the telephone system.
Negative feedback for amplifiers was invented by Bell Labs to facilitate
the long distance telephone system. Bell Labs even developed the first
good methodologies for ensuring that NFB amplifiers were stable, partially
because they were the first adopted of NFB for amplifiers. It was
communications audio, but it was audio.

You clearly know a lot about Bell labs, but how much do you know about what
everyone else was doing at the time?. Almost no invention can be confidently
credited to just one source.

David.

"David Looser" wrote in
message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"David Looser" wrote in

Not even true for "analog and tubes".

Yes it was.

At the risk of sounding like a pantomime - No it wasn't.

The concepts of nonlinear distortion and bandwidth were
indeed
developed by Bell Labs for the purpose of optimizing the
telephone system. Negative feedback for amplifiers was
invented by Bell Labs to facilitate the long distance
telephone system. Bell Labs even developed the first
good methodologies for ensuring that NFB amplifiers were
stable, partially because they were the first adopted of
NFB for amplifiers. It was communications audio, but it
was audio.

You clearly know a lot about Bell labs, but how much do
you know about what everyone else was doing at the time?.

Plenty.

Almost no invention can be confidently credited to just
one source.

The list of serious players was pretty short before WW2 when most of this
was invented.

Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote

In my career in the audio industry most of the greatest
recent advances have indeed come from the lunatic fringe.

No, they were ported in from other industries.

There hasn't been any serious R&D in this field for over
two generations.

Agreed.

Uh ?

How about all those nice new ADCs and DACs with near 24 bit performance ?

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote

In my career in the audio industry most of the greatest
recent advances have indeed come from the lunatic
fringe.

No, they were ported in from other industries.

There hasn't been any serious R&D in this field for over
two generations.

Agreed.

Uh ?

How about all those nice new ADCs and DACs with near 24
bit performance ?

Based on communications technology, just taken to an extreme. Initially
justified for pro audio.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote

In my career in the audio industry most of the greatest
recent advances have indeed come from the lunatic
fringe.

No, they were ported in from other industries.

There hasn't been any serious R&D in this field for over
two generations.

Agreed.

Uh ?

How about all those nice new ADCs and DACs with near 24
bit performance ?

Based on communications technology, just taken to an extreme. Initially
justified for pro audio.

Comms guys certainly would have no use for them. They only need 8 bit voice
quality stuff.

No, this was audio explicit R&D. You'd have to be crazy to think otherwise.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote

In my career in the audio industry most of the
greatest recent advances have indeed come from the
lunatic fringe.

No, they were ported in from other industries.

There hasn't been any serious R&D in this field for
over two generations.

Agreed.

Uh ?

How about all those nice new ADCs and DACs with near 24
bit performance ?

Based on communications technology, just taken to an
extreme. Initially justified for pro audio.

Comms guys certainly would have no use for them. They
only need 8 bit voice quality stuff.

True, but this is why things like sigma-delta were invented.

No, this was audio explicit R&D. You'd have to be crazy
to think otherwise.

Like I said developed for pro audio, not high end consumer audio.

Graham