Our dear departed friend Keith has posted this on his web site, so he still
has an interest in audio...........

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/show.htm

I would imagine that the pressing quality is rather better now than it was
in the '70s. If nothing else, having guards round the presses should help to
keep dust down. Health and Safety sometimes is of more use than just the
obvious.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

In article , Serge Auckland
wrote:
Our dear departed friend Keith has posted this on his web site, so he
still has an interest in audio...........

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/show.htm

I got a link for a multi-MB download. Since I'm still using a POTS/modem
connection I decided I could live without that. Indeed, that I might not
live long enough to discover the contents weren't worth the wait. :-)

Anyone care to comment on what the download tells us?

I would imagine that the pressing quality is rather better now than it
was in the '70s. If nothing else, having guards round the presses
should help to keep dust down. Health and Safety sometimes is of more
use than just the obvious.

Hard for me to tell. I've only acquired 8 LPs in the last 5+ years. These
are a box set of fancy-produced Henrix re-issues I got for comparison
purposes with a 4 CD set. One LP side is audibly off-center, and others
have clicks in various places. Came shrink-wrapped, so it looks like even
fancy LP issues still show manufacturing/factory problems. Alas, a guard
around the machine won't ensure they will bother to put the hole in the
center... :-)

But overall, the sound seems fine - albeit at the cost of sides limited to
about 15 mins, so requiring 8 LPs.

That said, I discovered in another comparison that my old Frampton Live
double LP set has songs which were omitted from the single CD of the same.
Odd, since the timing would allow them to all fit onto one CD...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Serge Auckland
wrote:
Our dear departed friend Keith has posted this on his web site, so he
still has an interest in audio...........

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/show.htm

I got a link for a multi-MB download. Since I'm still using a POTS/modem
connection I decided I could live without that. Indeed, that I might not
live long enough to discover the contents weren't worth the wait. :-)

Anyone care to comment on what the download tells us?

Essentially it was a company that has taken over the original EMI
pressing machinery, and is turning out vinyl. Since they started the
numbers initially climbed, but have now plateaued at (I think) about a
million a year. The chap in charge had nothing to say about sound
quality - his thrust was that it was all about owning the "thing" and
what fun it was.

Mechanically it all looked very hit and miss, but the chap did say they
used a "process" to make it happen.

I would imagine that the pressing quality is rather better now than it
was in the '70s. If nothing else, having guards round the presses
should help to keep dust down. Health and Safety sometimes is of more
use than just the obvious.

Hard for me to tell. I've only acquired 8 LPs in the last 5+ years. These
are a box set of fancy-produced Henrix re-issues I got for comparison
purposes with a 4 CD set. One LP side is audibly off-center, and others
have clicks in various places. Came shrink-wrapped, so it looks like even
fancy LP issues still show manufacturing/factory problems. Alas, a guard
around the machine won't ensure they will bother to put the hole in the
center... :-)


It looks like SOTA equipment is rather confined to the playing side of
things. :-(

But overall, the sound seems fine - albeit at the cost of sides limited to
about 15 mins, so requiring 8 LPs.

That said, I discovered in another comparison that my old Frampton Live
double LP set has songs which were omitted from the single CD of the same.
Odd, since the timing would allow them to all fit onto one CD...

Slainte,

Jim


Never known omissions on CD - always extras.

d

In article Y5GdnbBqJYm6cK_VnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@plusnet, Don Pearce
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Serge Auckland
wrote:


Anyone care to comment on what the download tells us?

Essentially it was a company that has taken over the original EMI
pressing machinery, and is turning out vinyl. Since they started the
numbers initially climbed, but have now plateaued at (I think) about a
million a year. The chap in charge had nothing to say about sound
quality - his thrust was that it was all about owning the "thing" and
what fun it was.

Did they give the name/address of the company? I'd still like to talk to
some people who are making LPs to find out the details of the cutting, etc.
I tried contacting a few people some months ago, but they didn't give me
the details I was asking for. So far I've had to rely on ancient textbooks,
etc, for the series I've been doing on LP.


Hard for me to tell. I've only acquired 8 LPs in the last 5+ years.
These are a box set of fancy-produced Henrix re-issues I got for
comparison purposes with a 4 CD set.

Just recalled that I also recently bought a batch of test LPs. :-) I used
the Analogue Productions LP to do measurements on some MM cartridges.

BTW Anyone know the address, etc, for Technics LPs? I think they also make
test LPs, and am curious to check them out, The AP LP is good for some
purposes, but I'm still looking for an LP with accurate white or well
defined pink noise, for example. So far, all the test LPs I've tried have
noise which is far from either white or 1/f.

That said, I discovered in another comparison that my old Frampton
Live double LP set has songs which were omitted from the single CD of
the same. Odd, since the timing would allow them to all fit onto one
CD...


Never known omissions on CD - always extras.

That is usually my experience, so I was puzzled by the Frampton example. I
could have understood if the playing time of the double LP was above 80
mins, but it isn't.

The title is "Frampton comes Alive". Double LP is A&M SP3707 from 1976. The
CD of this I have is 396 505-2 (only date given is 1976 so clearly just the
copyright date).

CD has 10 songs, 2LP has 14. Missing from the CD are "Doobie Wah", "Its a
Plain Shame", "All I want to be", "Penny for your thoughts". Song orders
also differ. That is also odd as it is meant to be a 'live concert'
recording.

CD 62m 26s long. 2LPs 78m 30s (approx).

Maybe they wanted to release a 'special reissue' at a later date and higher
price that has all the original material! :-) However I'd have hoped a
special issue would provide *more* material that the original 2LP set.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article Y5GdnbBqJYm6cK_VnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@plusnet, Don Pearce
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Serge Auckland
wrote:

Anyone care to comment on what the download tells us?

Essentially it was a company that has taken over the original EMI
pressing machinery, and is turning out vinyl. Since they started the
numbers initially climbed, but have now plateaued at (I think) about a
million a year. The chap in charge had nothing to say about sound
quality - his thrust was that it was all about owning the "thing" and
what fun it was.

Did they give the name/address of the company? I'd still like to talk to
some people who are making LPs to find out the details of the cutting, etc.
I tried contacting a few people some months ago, but they didn't give me
the details I was asking for. So far I've had to rely on ancient textbooks,
etc, for the series I've been doing on LP.


http://www.portalspacerecords.com/da/13006

d

In article , Don
Pearce
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:


Did they give the name/address of the company?

http://www.portalspacerecords.com/da/13006

Ta! :-) IMHO The webpages are awful, tiny text and rely heavily on the M$
version of JavaScript and Flash. So a PITA for me. But the page whose URL
you gave does have an address for contact, so I've sent an email to see if
I can get a response. Had to resist the temptation to suggest they fire the
firm who did their website for them. ;-

FWIW I hope to put the first couple of HFN articles (limits of
cutting/replay and stats of peak velocities, etc, from various LPs) onto
audiomisc soon. And the 4th article with the results comparing various
carts with my ancient Shure V15/III is due to appear in the mag in a couple
of weeks time. Would be useful to do another article to try and tie the
measured results to what the people cutting the LPs do to produce what I
found. Particulary curious about the differences between vertical and
horizontal modulation stats on some LPs... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:Y5GdnbBqJYm6cK_VnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@plusnet...
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Serge Auckland
wrote:
Our dear departed friend Keith has posted this on his web site, so he
still has an interest in audio...........

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/show.htm

I got a link for a multi-MB download. Since I'm still using a POTS/modem
connection I decided I could live without that. Indeed, that I might not
live long enough to discover the contents weren't worth the wait. :-)

Anyone care to comment on what the download tells us?

Essentially it was a company that has taken over the original EMI pressing
machinery, and is turning out vinyl. Since they started the numbers
initially climbed, but have now plateaued at (I think) about a million a
year. The chap in charge had nothing to say about sound quality - his
thrust was that it was all about owning the "thing" and what fun it was.

Mechanically it all looked very hit and miss, but the chap did say they
used a "process" to make it happen.

I would imagine that the pressing quality is rather better now than it
was in the '70s. If nothing else, having guards round the presses
should help to keep dust down. Health and Safety sometimes is of more
use than just the obvious.

Hard for me to tell. I've only acquired 8 LPs in the last 5+ years. These
are a box set of fancy-produced Henrix re-issues I got for comparison
purposes with a 4 CD set. One LP side is audibly off-center, and others
have clicks in various places. Came shrink-wrapped, so it looks like even
fancy LP issues still show manufacturing/factory problems. Alas, a guard
around the machine won't ensure they will bother to put the hole in the
center... :-)


It looks like SOTA equipment is rather confined to the playing side of
things. :-(

**It always has been. Back in 1986 or so, I purchased two different LPs,
from two different locations on the same day. Both sported different labels.
I put the first on my turntable and listened with a growing sense of dread.
The tell-tale sounds of a chipped diamond greeted my ears. Curiously,
though, it was worse on one side and clearly worse towards the centre. I
stuck the stylus under my loupe, carefully examined the suspension - no
problems. Then I carefully checked the set-up of the arm - again, no
problems. I then stuck a crap recording on. No problems. So I then played
one of my favourite recordings. Superb. I grabbed the second LP I purchased
and noted exactly the same faults. I carefully noted that the LPs were
pressed by the same plant, here in Sydney. EMI. I called the company and
they, of course, suggested that I have my playback equipment checked. I said
that it was fine, so they requested I send the LPs back and they would
replace them. The new LPs arrived and I checked them out immediately. The
identical faults were evident. I 'phoned the company and was told that the
fault must be with my equipment (despite the fact that none of my other LPs
exhibited the faults), because they had tested the LPs and found them to be
perfect. I gave up and requested that the LPs be replaced with CDs. I've not
purchased any mass market, Australian pressed LPs since that day. Record
companies never cared much about quality and what cares they did have, went
out the window with the arrival of CDs.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:



**It always has been.

[big snip]

Record companies never cared much about quality and what cares they did
have, went out the window with the arrival of CDs.

I've been enjoying reading my way though a large number of back-issues of
HFN that I've acquired recently. Various things have struck me when I have
jumped back and forth between decades.

1) The regular articles which humourously warn of the 'addictions' of
audiophilia and how normal people are baffled by the weird behaviour.
(Although I suspect some of these were written by John Crabbe under various
house pen-names. ;- )

2) Regular articles bemoaning the lousy state of many LPs due to pressing
or handling faults at the factory.

3) The music reviews which remind me of just how many excellent recordings
have been made that I haven't yet caught up with. :-)

WRT (2) I've just been reading an article by Adrian Hope (Barry Fox) about
the way he - and the rest of us - were unpaid conscript 'quality checkers'
for the LP companies. Main point of the article was to discuss the use of
'factory sealed' LPs to stop shops allowing people to play the discs on
their in-store spiral lathe players and then sell them to some other
unsuspecting buyer as if 'new'. Question was if the Sale of Goods Act made
this illegal. However one comment from a retailer was that 'factory sealed'
discs would mean *more* returns from buyers. The comment was along the
lines, "If you think the LPs you buy are bad, you should try the ones we
sent back because we checked them visually before putting them up for
sale!"

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Serge Auckland
wrote:
Our dear departed friend Keith has posted this on his web site, so he
still has an interest in audio...........

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/show.htm

I got a link for a multi-MB download. Since I'm still using a POTS/modem
connection I decided I could live without that. Indeed, that I might not
live long enough to discover the contents weren't worth the wait. :-)

Anyone care to comment on what the download tells us?

I would imagine that the pressing quality is rather better now than it
was in the '70s. If nothing else, having guards round the presses
should help to keep dust down. Health and Safety sometimes is of more
use than just the obvious.

Hard for me to tell. I've only acquired 8 LPs in the last 5+ years. These
are a box set of fancy-produced Henrix re-issues I got for comparison
purposes with a 4 CD set. One LP side is audibly off-center, and others
have clicks in various places. Came shrink-wrapped, so it looks like even
fancy LP issues still show manufacturing/factory problems. Alas, a guard
around the machine won't ensure they will bother to put the hole in the
center... :-)

But overall, the sound seems fine - albeit at the cost of sides limited to
about 15 mins, so requiring 8 LPs.

That said, I discovered in another comparison that my old Frampton Live
double LP set has songs which were omitted from the single CD of the same.
Odd, since the timing would allow them to all fit onto one CD...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


The download is a 5'30" BBC programme "Working Lunch" which visits the old
EMI pressing factory, now under new ownership. The owner says that the vinyl
market is steady, showing no growth, but no signs of going away. Also says
that it's very much a niche market for collectors who like the tactile
nature of an LP and owning something tangible. The programme also makes the
comment that for some people, CDs have never come up to LP standards of
sound quality, which is why I suspect Keith had it on his web site.

Back in the '70s, I visited the CBS pressing plant in Aylesbury a few times
and was not very impressed by the obvious lack of care and quality control
taking place. LPs were pulled off the presses when still very soft and so
warps were almost certain, all to save a few seconds in the cooling cycle
and get higher production speeds. There were no guards round the presses
then, and dust was a constant problem, but seemingly totally ignored. I
have no idea if EMI were the same, but I would be surprised if they weren't.

Interestingly, the musiccassette production line showed more care being
taken than the LP lines. Perhaps being newer they were more automated,
consequently there was less scope for human screw-ups. They did seem to take
line-up of the duplicators quite seriously, and there was a time when I
thought that cassettes would end up better than LP. I bought a couple of
real-time in-cassette duplicated tapes and remember being very impressed,
but these never caught on. Sadly Dolby C duplication never got going,
perhaps because line-up was much more critical than Dolby B, perhaps because
the Public never understood Dolby processing and because CD was due soon.

As an aside, one of my bored Saturday activities when out shopping with my
wife was to go into Curry's or Dixons and ask the spotty youth to explain
what this Dolby thing does. The explanations were a riot of inventiveness,
but all sadly very wrong.

S.


--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...

Anyone care to comment on what the download tells us?

I would imagine that the pressing quality is rather better now than it
was in the '70s. If nothing else, having guards round the presses
should help to keep dust down. Health and Safety sometimes is of more
use than just the obvious.

The download is a 5'30" BBC programme "Working Lunch" which visits the old
EMI pressing factory, now under new ownership. The owner says that the
vinyl market is steady, showing no growth, but no signs of going away.
Also says that it's very much a niche market for collectors who like the
tactile nature of an LP and owning something tangible. The programme also
makes the comment that for some people, CDs have never come up to LP
standards of sound quality, which is why I suspect Keith had it on his web
site.

Back in the '70s, I visited the CBS pressing plant in Aylesbury a few
times and was not very impressed by the obvious lack of care and quality
control taking place. LPs were pulled off the presses when still very soft
and so warps were almost certain, all to save a few seconds in the cooling
cycle and get higher production speeds. There were no guards round the
presses then, and dust was a constant problem, but seemingly totally
ignored. I have no idea if EMI were the same, but I would be surprised if
they weren't.


Seeing this all again brought back memories. I visited the EMI factory
many times in the 1970s. In fact there was little difference between the
EMI, CBS and Decca factories. I also paid a visit to the old Saga factory
at Kensal Rise, and the factory of Charles Rumble (yes really!) down in
sunny Surrey.

In those days, the length of the press cycle was dictated by the record
being pressed. Decca full-price classical, cat SXL...... were turned out
more slowly that most on virgin vinyl. I suspect that QC was also higher.
But still, production was "brisk"

Now, there seems to be no use of recycled vinyl in the EU, even in
Czech and Baltic factories. The Russian plants too seem to be making
a special effort.

An important part of vinyl marketing is the sleeve. The Ray Charles/
Count Basie LP is a good example -a wonderfully presented gatefold
sleeve with an additional insert, packed with background information
about the artists and this particular project. The double LP, on 180gr
vinyl lived up to my expectations - not a click or a crackle on any
of the four sides. It is a truly wonderful listening experience.

It was interesting to compare this excellent production with the CD
version which appeared some months later. The CD had 4-6dB
compression, pushing the vocal back into the orchestra. Quite a
disappointment - although not totally unexpected. Ya see, louder
is better:-)

Regards

Iain