Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Eeyore wrote:

David Looser wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote
130 dB takes an aircraft carrier launching jets, etc.
It also causes real pain (not just discomfort) and temporary damage to the
hearing. If continued for any length of time (minutes) the damage is
permanent.

It caused me no pain at all. A sense of awe for sure, and a skin rash. And no,
I didn't continue it for long.

The idea of 130dB (peak) causing direct pain is IMHO associated with the noise
of the majority of kinds of things that are most likely to create 130dB !

In itself it doesn't hurt.

Graham


Interesting bit of research here - throws some bright light on trumpet
loudness too.

http://www.mne.psu.edu/psgdl/Pandya+Settles-JASA.pdf

d

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Roger Thorpe wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Yes you can when it's really good and it'll be 10-12 dBA. Not all parts of
cities are that noisy and it's amazing what clever construction methods can
do.

The biggest problem is keeping the noise of the air conditioning down
actually.

Strange that this should come up. Just yesterday I was listening to
Haitink's recording of Vaughan Williams no 3 (recorded in Abbey Road No
1. in 1986 IIRC) the ventilation noise was quite noticeable, and on
Audacity seemed to be about -45 dB.

Relative to a peak level of ?


What surprised me was that this
noise was maintained between movements and even between works.
Presumably the engineer drops some wild sound in the silences
deliberately. This seems to be good practice, to me the noise was not
troublesome, just 'ambience'. Had it faded in and out then I think it
would irritate.
Is that standard practice?

Could well have been.

and have they fixed the ventilation since?
Roger Thorpe

Well, they've moved now to Lyndhurst Hall. I never paid all that much attention
to the Oxford Street studios TBH.

I can easily ask some questions about Air Lyndhurst though since my 'mate' pretty
much covered all the angles on the audio technical side. Never mind some of the
other kit. You ought to see what's 'behind those doors' in terms of equipment
rooms and the like. It's like an industrial plant.

Ok, just talked to him. Now he mentioned the typical measure is an 'NC' meaning
noise contour. What he didn't know offhand was whether this is a 'flat'
measurement or weighted such as A weighting.

The BIG problem he says is LF, such as in London, vibration from tube (and
surface) trains. Now A weighting would make mincemeat of that for example, plus
due to how the ear works, would be inaudible in the noise floor anyway (see
Fletcher Munson).

The best studio he knows of has an NC of 15 (dB) but this may be 'flat' of
course.

NC20 is readily achievable and NC25 is routine WITH the a/c most definitely ON.

He suggested this link.
http://www.ambthair.com/

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

"Arny Krueger"
"Phil Allison"

130 dB takes an aircraft carrier launching jets, etc.


** Stick a mic right up against the skin of a snare drum
- then get an ape man type drummer to hit the drum as
hard as he can.

The exception does not disprove the rule.


** You posted no rule and this example is no exception.

Thinking in silly cliches is so typical of those with Asperger's.


It's insane, but so are all of Graham
Stevenson's bizarre points.
Cos he is a total nut case.

Wake up Arny.

I warned you about " TT" ages ago and you ignored me.

No I didn't.


** Fraid you did - you pathetic, ASD ****ed liar.


I like playing with dumb, aggressive animals.

** How revealing of a posturing, grandiose sociopath.

Quote " aus.hi-fi" 17-6-2008:

"For the record I have no idea why Terry (TT) solicited me for Kiddie Porn,
and I have of course denied his request on the grounds that I have none,
never have, and have no interest in any such thing."

Did the dumb, aggressive "TT" bite you - poor diddums ??


The best fun I ever had involved a 12 foot male alligator, quote visibly
in heat, and an 8 foot 2x4 at our missile site down in the Everglades. By
the time the boys from the park showed up with their rope and pickup
truck, he was unmolested but a pretty tired-out little puppy dog.


** Arny is yet another totally narcissistic, septic nut case.

Ex US armed forces puke, now computer geek, born again Jesus freak.

In case anyone here doubted he was nuts for one second.



...... Phil

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote:
David Looser wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
Arny Krueger wrote:

The noise floor of a well-made recording is on the
order of 75-80 dB.

Have you gone completely MAD ?

I can beat you by easily 50dB.

Do you do all your recording in an anechoic chamber
then?

What do you think the noise floor of a competently
designed studio is ?

30-ish dB.

Good Lord ! You're WAY off the mark. 30dB is NOISY to
me. I'm talking about proper commercial high-end music
recording facilities that have cost MILLIONS to build.

That sounds more like European-style recording, not U.S. style recording.

I suspect you're dead right.


You said "competently-designed", not SOTA.

Ah well ... different base of reference I guess.

I've been in some of the best studios in Detroit. One of them shared a
building with an auto body repair shop. Go figure.

LMFAO !

I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had whole
building EMC screens installed. Indeed I helped with doing the site measurements
for one of them.
http://www.westwick.com/

They just recently finished a job (Neve install) in Poland, and before that a
LARGE installation in Singapore (University theatre or somesuch?). They
regularly do jobs for 'name' musicians.


Of course the most famous
studio in town and arguably the most productive was built in two wood frame
houses, side-by-side on a busy street. Several were built in suites in
typical industrial parks.

Yeah, well the ones I know are made of solid brick or STONE !


You need to visit some top London studios I know. The
silence is deafening.

Most studio music is made in far lesser studios.

Not top chart or rock and roll music.

Yes, number one hits. Top 40, top 100.

Whatever. 'Top' chart stuff in this country is banale these days anyway aside
from a few albums.


Orchestral's another ball game entirely of course since it depends on
the venue..

Detroit's Orchestra Hall is one of the best in the world, for live
performances, and recording. It is a pretty quiet room. Well, if you keep
the people out of it. I've had numerous chances to audition it both ways.

Fancy taking a B&K SPL meter in there ?


Also, a lot of that silence goes away after you add
living, breathing musicians. Just sitting there, they
make noise.

But that's part of the *recording*.

It follows the spectral trends of red noise. If you have enough musicians,
the noise floor they produce is just as random as anything. Noise due to air
turbulence can be wonderfully random stuff.

Mmmmmm, whatever. I do like to be able to hear the musicians taking their
places, adjusting their stands etc.

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

There's a balance between the required dither and the largest nonlinearity
in the recording chain

If you want to know it all just search the AES archives on the subject using the
name "Graham Boswell" and / or "Ian Dennis".

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

Many acoustic instruments can produce nearly 130dB close
up. Why do you think rock drummers go deaf first ?

Because of sustained loudness above 100 dB.

100dB average for a couple of hours a day, maybe a couple of days a week
does NOT make you go deaf.

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

I'll bet you close miking a brass section wouldn't be far
off peaking in that area.

Been there, done that. It isn't *that* loud. Not 130 dB.

PEAK !

Not average. Why are there mics out there with clipping points of 145 dB
?

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eiron" wrote
If you turn up the volume you can just hear the noise of the
Olympic Studios air conditioning before Ian Paice starts
drumming.

Apparently these recordings were made in studios of the kind that I am
familiar with, not the ones that Graham believes are in general use. ;-)

Olympic was ancient. 1970 ?

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Eiron wrote:
Roger Thorpe wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Yes you can when it's really good and it'll be 10-12 dBA. Not all
parts of
cities are that noisy and it's amazing what clever construction
methods can
do.

The biggest problem is keeping the noise of the air conditioning down
actually.

Graham

Strange that this should come up. Just yesterday I was listening to
Haitink's recording of Vaughan Williams no 3 (recorded in Abbey Road
No 1. in 1986 IIRC) the ventilation noise was quite noticeable, and on
Audacity seemed to be about -45 dB. What surprised me was that this
noise was maintained between movements and even between works.
Presumably the engineer drops some wild sound in the silences
deliberately. This seems to be good practice, to me the noise was not
troublesome, just 'ambience'. Had it faded in and out then I think it
would irritate.
Is that standard practice? and have they fixed the ventilation since?
Roger Thorpe


I was just listening to Fireball by Deep Purple. If you turn up the volume
you can just hear the noise of the Olympic Studios air conditioning
before Ian Paice starts drumming.


(ignoring the sound of things wizzing over heads)

I always wondered about that intro, I always assumed that it was a
star-delta motor starting up, at least thats what I sounded like to me,
but wikipedia seems to be claming its a Lesley starting up. What do the
panel think?

--
Nick

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Don Pearce wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
David Looser wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote

130 dB takes an aircraft carrier launching jets, etc.
It also causes real pain (not just discomfort) and temporary damage to the
hearing. If continued for any length of time (minutes) the damage is
permanent.

It caused me no pain at all. A sense of awe for sure, and a skin rash. And no,
I didn't continue it for long.

The idea of 130dB (peak) causing direct pain is IMHO associated with the noise
of the majority of kinds of things that are most likely to create 130dB !

In itself it doesn't hurt.


Interesting bit of research here - throws some bright light on trumpet
loudness too.

http://www.mne.psu.edu/psgdl/Pandya+Settles-JASA.pdf

Horns are LOUD.

WTF were they thinking of using dBA though ? MORONS (or should I say 'academics' ?).
At those SPLs the A weighting just muddles the figures and under-measures them.

" In the 118–124 peak dB(A) range, they are near the weak limit of shock wave
visibility by schlieren optics. The schlieren evidence confirms that the frequency
of the emitted shock waves corresponds to the frequency of the note being played.
Ancillary laminar and turbulent jet phenomena associated with the performer’s breath
are also visible in the images. "

Now I'd like to know what dB(C) numbers would have been. At a guess, peaking over
140 dB.

Graham