Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

tony sayer wrote:

Don Pearce scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had whole
building EMC screens installed.

They really -necessary- these days?...

Can't think of any reason to do this other than being sited next door to
a megawatt AM transmitter. And then the right solution is to go
somewhere else.

Quite.. I was playing around the other day with a 5 watt Handportable in
a studio.. Not a murmur anywhere except for the phone on the desk and
this of course is at field strengths that perhaps it would take a meg
outside to produce;!..

And how many top-end studios do you have to your names ?

You're looking in the wrong places in the spectrum btw. Amateurs !

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

Close-miking isn't your thing then ?

It depends. Close-micing would be one mic per trumpet. Normally, a section
composed of 4 trumpets would be miced with one mic, maybe 2.

Probably 2 for me for some stereo effect.


Distant micing would put the mics a dozen or more feet away from the
trumpets.

Not for live it wouldn't ! Never mind the SPILL from everything else. Why not
just a single OH pair ?

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Close miking rarely captures the real sound of the instrument.

Define the real sound and why a mic with a clipping level of 145 dB can't do
it.

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Phil Allison wrote:

"tony sayer"

I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had
whole building EMC screens installed.

They really -necessary- these days?...

** When were the laws of physics repealed - Tony ?

GSM phones are the number one culprits for breaking into audio equipment of
all kinds. You can ban them from the studio itself, but how do you keep all
of them at a safe distance all of the time ?

Then there are VHF and UHF two way radios that travel around in commercial
and private vehicles - even the briefest injection of the signal from one
means having to redo something.

EMC screening is just as important as ever for a serious recording facility.

Continuous welded 2mm mild steel typically does the job.

Graham

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Phil Allison wrote:
"tony sayer"

I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had
whole
building EMC screens installed.
They really -necessary- these days?...


** When were the laws of physics repealed - Tony ?

GSM phones are the number one culprits for breaking into audio equipment of
all kinds. You can ban them from the studio itself, but how do you keep all
of them at a safe distance all of the time ?

Then there are VHF and UHF two way radios that travel around in commercial
and private vehicles - even the briefest injection of the signal from one
means having to redo something.

EMC screening is just as important as ever for a serious recording facility.



..... Phil



What a tit. GSM phones need to be close to the victim equipment to be a
problem, which means they will be inside the building. So building-level
screening ain't gonna help. And if the installation is done well they
don't cause audible interference anyway. I can put my phone on top of my
mixer and I get no sound from it.

As for two way vehicle radios, yes we've all heard that coming through.
It always means there is a problem like a bad joint somewhere that is
rectifying. You don't screen it, you fix it. You can regard the local
minicab company as a diagnostic aid.

The equipment you use in your studio should have all the screening it
needs built into it. A Faraday cage for electric guitar is all the extra
that should ever be needed.

d

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Eeyore wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"tony sayer"
I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had
whole building EMC screens installed.
They really -necessary- these days?...
** When were the laws of physics repealed - Tony ?

GSM phones are the number one culprits for breaking into audio equipment of
all kinds. You can ban them from the studio itself, but how do you keep all
of them at a safe distance all of the time ?

Then there are VHF and UHF two way radios that travel around in commercial
and private vehicles - even the briefest injection of the signal from one
means having to redo something.

EMC screening is just as important as ever for a serious recording facility.

Continuous welded 2mm mild steel typically does the job.

Graham


That is magnetic screening - totally different thing to EMC screening.

d

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

"Don Pearce"
Phil Allison wrote:
"tony sayer"

I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had
whole building EMC screens installed.
They really -necessary- these days?...


** When were the laws of physics repealed - Tony ?

GSM phones are the number one culprits for breaking into audio equipment
of all kinds. You can ban them from the studio itself, but how do you
keep all of them at a safe distance all of the time ?

Then there are VHF and UHF two way radios that travel around in
commercial and private vehicles - even the briefest injection of the
signal from one means having to redo something.

EMC screening is just as important as ever for a serious recording
facility.


What a tit.

** Go get ****ed - you ridiculous, lying POS.


GSM phones need to be close to the victim equipment to be a problem, which
means they will be inside the building.

** Not true at all.

The GSM phone may be in the hands of a passer by just outside the studio
building or on a floor above or below where the studio is. Without
additional EMI shielding, some items of audio gear are affected ( ie buzz)
at ranges of 5 metres or more.


So building-level screening ain't gonna help.


** Obviously you BAN the GSM phones and any other transmitters from
inside the EMC screened area - you colossal ****WIT !!


And if the installation is done well they don't cause audible interference
anyway.

** ABSOLUTE ********.

Even if somehow every piece of installed studio gear was magically immune -
there are still people called musicians who arrive with their OWN pieces of
audio gear and bring them into the studio.

You colossal ****WIT !!


I can put my phone on top of my mixer and I get no sound from it.

** Yawnnnan - wot utterly irrelevant tripe.


As for two way vehicle radios, yes we've all heard that coming through. It
always means there is a problem like a bad joint somewhere that is
rectifying.

** COMPLETE ******** !!!

You are a know nothing ass - Pearce.


You don't screen it, you fix it.


** Not possible to " fix "every item of audio gear that comes in the door
with the musos - you colossal ****WIT !!


The equipment you use in your studio should have all the screening it
needs built into it.

** Wot insane, opinionated crapology.

Par for the course with this pile of asinine, autistic pommy garbage.


A Faraday cage for electric guitar is all the extra that should ever be
needed.

** ROTFLMAO !!

What utter tripe.



...... Phil

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

Phil Allison wrote:
"Don Pearce"
Phil Allison wrote:
"tony sayer"

I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had
whole building EMC screens installed.
They really -necessary- these days?...

** When were the laws of physics repealed - Tony ?

GSM phones are the number one culprits for breaking into audio equipment
of all kinds. You can ban them from the studio itself, but how do you
keep all of them at a safe distance all of the time ?

Then there are VHF and UHF two way radios that travel around in
commercial and private vehicles - even the briefest injection of the
signal from one means having to redo something.

EMC screening is just as important as ever for a serious recording
facility.

What a tit.

** Go get ****ed - you ridiculous, lying POS.


GSM phones need to be close to the victim equipment to be a problem, which
means they will be inside the building.

** Not true at all.

The GSM phone may be in the hands of a passer by just outside the studio
building or on a floor above or below where the studio is. Without
additional EMI shielding, some items of audio gear are affected ( ie buzz)
at ranges of 5 metres or more.


So building-level screening ain't gonna help.


** Obviously you BAN the GSM phones and any other transmitters from
inside the EMC screened area - you colossal ****WIT !!


And if the installation is done well they don't cause audible interference
anyway.

** ABSOLUTE ********.

Even if somehow every piece of installed studio gear was magically immune -
there are still people called musicians who arrive with their OWN pieces of
audio gear and bring them into the studio.

You colossal ****WIT !!


I can put my phone on top of my mixer and I get no sound from it.

** Yawnnnan - wot utterly irrelevant tripe.


As for two way vehicle radios, yes we've all heard that coming through. It
always means there is a problem like a bad joint somewhere that is
rectifying.

** COMPLETE ******** !!!

You are a know nothing ass - Pearce.


You don't screen it, you fix it.


** Not possible to " fix "every item of audio gear that comes in the door
with the musos - you colossal ****WIT !!


The equipment you use in your studio should have all the screening it
needs built into it.

** Wot insane, opinionated crapology.

Par for the course with this pile of asinine, autistic pommy garbage.


A Faraday cage for electric guitar is all the extra that should ever be
needed.

** ROTFLMAO !!

What utter tripe.



..... Phil



Nicely reasoned argument there, Phil old boy. Your command of logic and
presentation of evidence are immaculate as ever. I have to give in - you
must be absolutely right.

d

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

In article , Eeyore rabbitsfriendsandrel
scribeth thus


tony sayer wrote:

Don Pearce scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had
whole
building EMC screens installed.

They really -necessary- these days?...

Can't think of any reason to do this other than being sited next door to
a megawatt AM transmitter. And then the right solution is to go
somewhere else.

Quite.. I was playing around the other day with a 5 watt Handportable in
a studio.. Not a murmur anywhere except for the phone on the desk and
this of course is at field strengths that perhaps it would take a meg
outside to produce;!..

And how many top-end studios do you have to your names ?

None. Can't see what the top end has to do with it?. Different class of
electrons perhaps;?..

You're looking in the wrong places in the spectrum btw. Amateurs !

Where would you suggest then?..

Graham


--
Tony Sayer

Dirty Digital [sic.]
 

In article , Phil Allison
scribeth thus

"tony sayer"


I know several recentish studios supervised by my 'mate' that have had
whole
building EMC screens installed.

They really -necessary- these days?...


** When were the laws of physics repealed - Tony ?

Well to my knowledge they haven't as yet;)..


GSM phones are the number one culprits for breaking into audio equipment of
all kinds. You can ban them from the studio itself, but how do you keep all
of them at a safe distance all of the time ?

GSM with its QAM mode is the most "apparent" interferer and is the most
likely, due to the number of them and the manner in which they are used.
Most everyone will have one compared to people like security guards who
will rarely come into close proximity to audio or similar equipment's in
say a studio environment..


Then there are VHF and UHF two way radios that travel around in commercial
and private vehicles - even the briefest injection of the signal from one
means having to redo something.

Yes "if" your equipment will "respond" to those signals

EMC screening is just as important as ever for a serious recording facility.

Well..FWIW...

We were asked if it was OK to allow people to bring mobiles into studios
and or should their be a blanket ban on them. We conducted some
experiments, OK we couldn't move the whole studio into a EMC chamber, so
we bought the RF fields to the equipment/s. Using a variety of GSM
phones to the UK spec, a couple of 5 watt output, not ERP that is,
portables on the 165-174 and 450-470 MHz bands and using those right up
against the desk, wiring and outboard the only noticeable thing that was
disturbed was a landline phone on the desk. There was one rather elderly
effects unit that was affected which wasn't unexpected.

We sometimes fire off broadcast transmitters in our workshop into
dipoles outside on the ground, OK not much more that a 100 watts or so
and for very short time periods, but very rarely do we see any effects
in modern equipment's:)

Over the last few years electronic equipment's have been subject to a
number of EMC directives to limit the amount of unwanted RF radiation
they produce -AND- their susceptibility to RF fields.

As the other side of our business is Two-way radio and broadcast
transmission install and maintenance, we have seen this disappear over
time. Some years ago when semiconductor equipment's started appearing in
motahs there were many and varied effects when a Two way radio was used.
Such as the windows going up and down, doors locking and unlocking,
window wipers starting on their own, and other sometimes amusing and not
so amusing effects.

The early Volvo 144's?? IIRC in use by the local police had an odd
effect in that when the radio was keyed up the fuel injection packed up
and the engine would fade;!. However as said over time what with
legalisation and increasing manufacturer awareness this situation has
changed and very much so.

A friend of mine maintains electro-medical equipment at the local
hospital and was asked by "management" if there were any problems with
interference from phones and the like, and most all of the equipment
there wasn't except on older bit of gear. However a blanket band remains
to which "consultants" are excepted;!..

We look after some 2000 odd vehicles from passenger saloons AKA Taxis up
to lorry fleets and larger and for at least 5 odd years now we haven't
had ONE case of interference from either the radio to the vehicle or
vice versa. The only complaints we do get is the difficulty of fitting
anything to a modern vehicle with access into the ever packed engine
bay.

Considering the amount of on board electronics this is rather good
going:)

Also the radio equipment has changed from AM to NBFM which doesn't make
any potential interference go away, what it does do is make it less
apparent due to the type of modulation and QAM is one of the worst.

Now the only thing which is likely to be effected is older "vintage"
equipment which was made before designers became aware of the effects of
RF on semiconductor equipment's but this does seem a rather overkill to
make a complete studio RF proof unless by clobbering RF from the outside
they make mobiles and suchlike impossible to operate so people know they
don't work there and don't use them;!.

A more effective what of doing this is to test under operation
conditions to see if any equipment is affected and if so ban phones from
the studios and make that part of the contract of use of the facility
rather then spend a small fortune on effectively putting the studio in
an RF cage!...

As to external interferer's unless your right next to a serious LF, MF
or HF facility this isn't really a problem. TV and VHF/FM stations don't
waste expensive RF power down -here- thats up -there- aimed at the
distant horizon.

As to passing Taxis .. well we haven't had a problem for a very long
time now and there do get to be a few outside or works!.....

Come to think of it regarding early "ish" semiconductor equipment's, in
the early 80's Derek Scotland with whom I had the privilege to work with
was certainly very RF "aware". I'll ask Dr Martin, ex Neve, when I see
him next if they saw those problems..

--
Tony Sayer