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uk.rec.audio (General Audio and Hi-Fi) (uk.rec.audio) Discussion and exchange of hi-fi audio equipment.

Dirty Digital [sic.]



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old June 21st 08, 11:15 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Arny Krueger
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Default Dirty Digital [sic.]

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article
, Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"John Phillips"
wrote in message

On 2008-06-16, Jim Lesurf wrote:



IIRC Lipschitz and Vanderkooy were publishing about
dither in JAES in about 1984 and just after. Although
dither had been know for a long time I suspect you are
right that noise floors for material transferred to CD
were probably sufficient in the early days of CD
(1982-ish) to render external dither unnecessary.


AFAIK Vanderkooy and Lip****z were knowingly publishing
old news, in an effort to overcome some pretty strange
false claims that were being circulated at the time by
people who should have known better.


That is also my recollection. I can't remember when the
first work on dither was done, but I think it was
produced a long time ago. Hence there really isn't much
excuse for someone writing magazine articles like NKs not
to understand it. I was certainly reading about such
matters long ago.


The author that V&L were "answering" was a professor Professor PB Fellgett,
and published in 1981.

I comment on a posting of it in this post:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...e7d88bbec10f81

Much of its contents are quoted.


I'd be interested in seeing data on the noise performance
of studio mics and preamps, etc. If I recall correctly,
their bandwidths also may cast some doubt on the idea
that LP recordings provide wide ultrasonic bandwidths of
genuine recorded sounds. (As distinct from distortion
products, etc.)



The quietest mics have A-weighted noise equivalent to an acoustical level
that is just under 10 dB. Most serious mics have A-weighted noise equivalent
to an acoustical level that is 20 dB or less. The weighting curve is
significant because the spectral contents of microphone internal noise can
vary depending on the technology used to build the mic.

IME it is not difficult to find mic preamps and converters that are quiet
enough that they don't materially add to the noise coming out of a typical
capacitor microphone.



  #2 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd 08, 01:01 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Eeyore
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Posts: 1,415
Default Dirty Digital [sic.]



Arny Krueger wrote:

IME it is not difficult to find mic preamps and converters that are quiet
enough that they don't materially add to the noise coming out of a typical
capacitor microphone.


These days certainly not a problem whatever.

Graham


  #3 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd 08, 01:09 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Eeyore
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Posts: 1,415
Default Dirty Digital [sic.]



Eeyore wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

IME it is not difficult to find mic preamps and converters that are quiet
enough that they don't materially add to the noise coming out of a typical
capacitor microphone.


These days certainly not a problem whatever.


In fact, taking that TLM103 example, with +13dBu ? max out, it may not even need
any preamp at all to connect it to a converter if intending to use it at high
SPLs.

Graham

  #4 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd 08, 11:27 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Arny Krueger
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Posts: 3,850
Default Dirty Digital [sic.]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Eeyore wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

IME it is not difficult to find mic preamps and
converters that are quiet enough that they don't
materially add to the noise coming out of a typical
capacitor microphone.


These days certainly not a problem whatever.


In fact, taking that TLM103 example, with +13dBu ? max
out, it may not even need any preamp at all to connect it
to a converter if intending to use it at high SPLs.


Well, that takes extreme situations like the proverbial deck of an aircraft
carrier launching jets.

When I'm recording with capacitor mics, the mic preamps are usually set for
30-45 dB gain. Of course I don't work with many well-trained professionals,
who are maybe 10 dB or more louder. I often use the 26 dB pads on my 02R96
mic preamps.


  #5 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd 08, 02:29 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Eeyore
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Posts: 1,415
Default Dirty Digital [sic.]



Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Eeyore wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:

IME it is not difficult to find mic preamps and
converters that are quiet enough that they don't
materially add to the noise coming out of a typical
capacitor microphone.


These days certainly not a problem whatever.


In fact, taking that TLM103 example, with +13dBu ? max
out, it may not even need any preamp at all to connect it
to a converter if intending to use it at high SPLs.


Well, that takes extreme situations like the proverbial deck of an aircraft
carrier launching jets.


See my other posts.

I'll bet you close miking a brass section wouldn't be far off peaking in that
area.

Graham

  #6 (permalink)  
Old June 23rd 08, 12:08 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Arny Krueger
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Posts: 3,850
Default Dirty Digital [sic.]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message

I'll bet you close miking a brass section wouldn't be far
off peaking in that area.


Been there, done that. It isn't *that* loud. Not 130 dB.


  #7 (permalink)  
Old June 23rd 08, 12:57 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Eeyore
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Posts: 1,415
Default Dirty Digital [sic.]



Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

I'll bet you close miking a brass section wouldn't be far
off peaking in that area.


Been there, done that. It isn't *that* loud. Not 130 dB.


PEAK !

Not average. Why are there mics out there with clipping points of 145 dB
?

Graham


 




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