"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi

I forgot to ask, Don, does Audition have "audio scrub"
where you can use the mouse or trackball to go backwards
and forwards over a couple of bars to locate an edit
point by ear?

FWIW, Audition has had scrubbing for the last two major releases, 2.0 and
3.0.

If you know what you are doing, it is a fairly useless feature, mostly a
hold-over from the days of analog tape.

Iain Churches wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Can anyone list the major differences between
CEP2 and Audition? It would be interesting to
know how the program has developed.

I use Audition quite a lot as there is still enough of CEP in there that I
can find my way round the menus blindfold, and that makes work very quick.
Bad things? Bloat - clearly. The thing takes forever to load, and quite
often leaves behind unwanted processes when you shut it. Also it insists
on loading every single DX and and VST plugin as it starts; sure it is
nice to have them readily to hand when you need them, but that is rare
enough that I would rather it left them out until I decide they are
needed. It also expects to find them in a Steinberg directory - what's
that about? More bad stuff? Splitting a session into tracks to make a CD
is really non-intuitive. You have to follow the tutorial every time. I'm
sure plenty more will occur to me, but that will do.


I forgot to ask, Don, does Audition have "audio scrub"
where you can use the mouse or trackball to go backwards
and forwards over a couple of bars to locate an edit point by
ear?

Iain



Yes, it does. Not well implemented though. Provided you are zoomed well
in it performs as you expect. If you have a wide view, though, the jumps
are too big to make sense of what you are hearing.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Can anyone list the major differences between
CEP2 and Audition? It would be interesting to
know how the program has developed.

I use Audition quite a lot as there is still enough of CEP in there that
I can find my way round the menus blindfold, and that makes work very
quick. Bad things? Bloat - clearly. The thing takes forever to load, and
quite often leaves behind unwanted processes when you shut it. Also it
insists on loading every single DX and and VST plugin as it starts; sure
it is nice to have them readily to hand when you need them, but that is
rare enough that I would rather it left them out until I decide they are
needed. It also expects to find them in a Steinberg directory - what's
that about? More bad stuff? Splitting a session into tracks to make a CD
is really non-intuitive. You have to follow the tutorial every time. I'm
sure plenty more will occur to me, but that will do.


I forgot to ask, Don, does Audition have "audio scrub"
where you can use the mouse or trackball to go backwards
and forwards over a couple of bars to locate an edit point by
ear?

Yes, it does. Not well implemented though. Provided you are zoomed well in
it performs as you expect. If you have a wide view, though, the jumps are
too big to make sense of what you are hearing.


OK. Thanks for that Don. It looks as if Audition still has
a long way to go then even to make it as intuitiuve as a
35mm Steinbeck editing table:-)

For professional music editing you need to be able to
sweep across perhaps six or eight bars and stop the
cursor right on the point of the intended splice.

People have told me that this could not really be done
with sufficient accuract in CEP2.1 and I wondered if
Audition was any better.

For continuity, some conductors and producers
want you to scrub in real time from say the beginning
of a movement, and then crawl to the edit point, in
which case the view would need to be wide.

The visual reference is not enough. Both producers
and conductors expect to hear what is going on
and hear it with precision. They either have their
heads buried in the score, or their eyes closed
when they listen. They often will not look at an
editing screen

Cheers
Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...


The visual reference is not enough. Both producers
and conductors expect to hear what is going on
and hear it with precision. They either have their
heads buried in the score, or their eyes closed
when they listen. They often will not look at an
editing screen


For those of us who have neither producers nor conductors to worry about the
visual reference is entirely good enough. IMO it's better, because you can
see the whole waveform at the same time, no memory is required as when
scrubbing.

David.

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...


The visual reference is not enough. Both producers
and conductors expect to hear what is going on
and hear it with precision. They either have their
heads buried in the score, or their eyes closed
when they listen. They often will not look at an
editing screen


For those of us who have neither producers nor conductors to worry about
the visual reference is entirely good enough. IMO it's better, because you
can see the whole waveform at the same time, no memory is required as when
scrubbing.


Audio scrub was one of the features added to bring
CEP into line with professional audio editors, hence the
suffix Pro. Conductors and producers are part of the
professional scene.

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...


Audio scrub was one of the features added to bring
CEP into line with professional audio editors, hence the
suffix Pro. Conductors and producers are part of the
professional scene.


Part of the professional music-recording-industry scene maybe. There are
many other sorts of "professional scenes" that use audio editing software.

David.

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...


Audio scrub was one of the features added to bring
CEP into line with professional audio editors, hence the
suffix Pro. Conductors and producers are part of the
professional scene.


Part of the professional music-recording-industry scene maybe.

No "maybe". It's a fact:-)
We still need to meet the expectations of the
client/ conductor/producer, even at the editing stage.

My own editing experience goes back to splicing 2"
24-track analogue tape. It required a stout heart and a firm
hand to take a Chinagreaph pencil and a razor-blade to the
one and only tape, especially when ten pairs of beady eyes
were watching:-) I appreciate the multiple layers of undo that
a large digital workstation offers. Two layers would suffice:-)

Iain

Iain Churches wrote:
"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Audio scrub was one of the features added to bring
CEP into line with professional audio editors, hence the
suffix Pro. Conductors and producers are part of the
professional scene.

Part of the professional music-recording-industry scene maybe.

No "maybe". It's a fact:-)
We still need to meet the expectations of the
client/ conductor/producer, even at the editing stage.

My own editing experience goes back to splicing 2"
24-track analogue tape. It required a stout heart and a firm
hand to take a Chinagreaph pencil and a razor-blade to the
one and only tape, especially when ten pairs of beady eyes
were watching:-) I appreciate the multiple layers of undo that
a large digital workstation offers. Two layers would suffice:-)

Iain


But it would be nice if you could undo for instance, the change before
last. As it stands if you can only do it on a "last in, first out"
basis. Obviously this can't be done for all edits because they aren't
necessarily linear.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et...
Iain Churches wrote:
"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Audio scrub was one of the features added to bring
CEP into line with professional audio editors, hence the
suffix Pro. Conductors and producers are part of the
professional scene.

Part of the professional music-recording-industry scene maybe.

No "maybe". It's a fact:-)
We still need to meet the expectations of the
client/ conductor/producer, even at the editing stage.

My own editing experience goes back to splicing 2"
24-track analogue tape. It required a stout heart and a firm
hand to take a Chinagreaph pencil and a razor-blade to the
one and only tape, especially when ten pairs of beady eyes
were watching:-) I appreciate the multiple layers of undo that
a large digital workstation offers. Two layers would suffice:-)


But it would be nice if you could undo for instance, the change before
last. As it stands if you can only do it on a "last in, first out" basis.
Obviously this can't be done for all edits because they aren't necessarily
linear.

So is there only one level of undo in Audition. Don?

Even the early versions of audio workstations from
Opus, New England Digital, Fairlight etc offered 99 layers.

Iain

Iain Churches wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et...
Iain Churches wrote:
"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...
Audio scrub was one of the features added to bring
CEP into line with professional audio editors, hence the
suffix Pro. Conductors and producers are part of the
professional scene.

Part of the professional music-recording-industry scene maybe.
No "maybe". It's a fact:-)
We still need to meet the expectations of the
client/ conductor/producer, even at the editing stage.

My own editing experience goes back to splicing 2"
24-track analogue tape. It required a stout heart and a firm
hand to take a Chinagreaph pencil and a razor-blade to the
one and only tape, especially when ten pairs of beady eyes
were watching:-) I appreciate the multiple layers of undo that
a large digital workstation offers. Two layers would suffice:-)

But it would be nice if you could undo for instance, the change before
last. As it stands if you can only do it on a "last in, first out" basis.
Obviously this can't be done for all edits because they aren't necessarily
linear.

So is there only one level of undo in Audition. Don?

Even the early versions of audio workstations from
Opus, New England Digital, Fairlight etc offered 99 layers.

Iain



No, there are many levels (100 I think), but you must go back through
them in the reverse order you applied the changes. You can't select one
several levels back to undo, while leaving more recent ones intact.

d