Iain Churches wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Can anyone list the major differences between
CEP2 and Audition? It would be interesting to
know how the program has developed.


PS. I forgot to add:
There is a tendency for audio editing programmes
to try to be "all things things to all people" Maybe
that is what has happened to Audition?

One of the best pieces of audio editing software of
all times has to be Studer's "Diaxis" However, as the
result of customner feedback, more and more options
were added, until the pull-down menus reached the
bottom of the screen. There were a dozen ways to do
the same task. It began to be difficult to find one's
way around.

They could have issued bespoke, dedicated versions
of the software i.e. TV and film recording,
post production, music recording and editing, etc.

Iain



I use Audition quite a lot as there is still enough of CEP in there that
I can find my way round the menus blindfold, and that makes work very
quick. Bad things? Bloat - clearly. The thing takes forever to load, and
quite often leaves behind unwanted processes when you shut it. Also it
insists on loading every single DX and and VST plugin as it starts; sure
it is nice to have them readily to hand when you need them, but that is
rare enough that I would rather it left them out until I decide they are
needed. It also expects to find them in a Steinberg directory - what's
that about? More bad stuff? Splitting a session into tracks to make a CD
is really non-intuitive. You have to follow the tutorial every time. I'm
sure plenty more will occur to me, but that will do.

Oh, I really like the way multi tracks work. All the right buttons in
the right places.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Can anyone list the major differences between
CEP2 and Audition? It would be interesting to
know how the program has developed.


PS. I forgot to add:
There is a tendency for audio editing programmes
to try to be "all things things to all people" Maybe
that is what has happened to Audition?

One of the best pieces of audio editing software of
all times has to be Studer's "Diaxis" However, as the
result of customner feedback, more and more options
were added, until the pull-down menus reached the
bottom of the screen. There were a dozen ways to do
the same task. It began to be difficult to find one's
way around.

They could have issued bespoke, dedicated versions
of the software i.e. TV and film recording,
post production, music recording and editing, etc.

Iain

I use Audition quite a lot as there is still enough of CEP in there that I
can find my way round the menus blindfold, and that makes work very quick.
Bad things? Bloat - clearly. The thing takes forever to load, and quite
often leaves behind unwanted processes when you shut it. Also it insists
on loading every single DX and and VST plugin as it starts; sure it is
nice to have them readily to hand when you need them, but that is rare
enough that I would rather it left them out until I decide they are
needed.

Hmm. That was one of the good things about Diaxis, and also ProDisk
you could define tasks (different ways of working) and prescribe
the plug ins and extensions required for each specific task. So, the
system was up and running very fast, and trimmed specifically to
your requirements. In addition a link to the automation of the console
meant that the desk would be configured also. You select "Voice Over"
and you snap into multitrack with a mic channel assigned to Ch 1 and
foldback ready routed.

It also expects to find them in a Steinberg directory - what's that about?
More bad stuff?

I believe that the plug-ins have probably come from Steinberg CueBase
and also from EMU originally.

Splitting a session into tracks to make a CD is really non-intuitive. You
have to follow the tutorial every time.

I know of one chap who does CD mastering with CEP2.
He uses "Open" to place the first title, then "Generate/Silence/3secs"
to leader and the "Open Append" to insert subsequent titles.
He tops and tails as he goes. It is simple and quick. He uses a
Studer CD recorder which updates the track ID at any leader
(or segment of audio below -60dBFS) CEP2 seems to load
in the time you can open a CD jewel case and place the disc
into the recorder.

Iain

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Can anyone list the major differences between
CEP2 and Audition? It would be interesting to
know how the program has developed.


I use Audition quite a lot as there is still enough of CEP in there that I
can find my way round the menus blindfold, and that makes work very quick.
Bad things? Bloat - clearly. The thing takes forever to load, and quite
often leaves behind unwanted processes when you shut it. Also it insists
on loading every single DX and and VST plugin as it starts; sure it is
nice to have them readily to hand when you need them, but that is rare
enough that I would rather it left them out until I decide they are
needed. It also expects to find them in a Steinberg directory - what's
that about? More bad stuff? Splitting a session into tracks to make a CD
is really non-intuitive. You have to follow the tutorial every time. I'm
sure plenty more will occur to me, but that will do.


I forgot to ask, Don, does Audition have "audio scrub"
where you can use the mouse or trackball to go backwards
and forwards over a couple of bars to locate an edit point by
ear?

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi

I forgot to ask, Don, does Audition have "audio scrub"
where you can use the mouse or trackball to go backwards
and forwards over a couple of bars to locate an edit
point by ear?

FWIW, Audition has had scrubbing for the last two major releases, 2.0 and
3.0.

If you know what you are doing, it is a fairly useless feature, mostly a
hold-over from the days of analog tape.

Iain Churches wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Can anyone list the major differences between
CEP2 and Audition? It would be interesting to
know how the program has developed.

I use Audition quite a lot as there is still enough of CEP in there that I
can find my way round the menus blindfold, and that makes work very quick.
Bad things? Bloat - clearly. The thing takes forever to load, and quite
often leaves behind unwanted processes when you shut it. Also it insists
on loading every single DX and and VST plugin as it starts; sure it is
nice to have them readily to hand when you need them, but that is rare
enough that I would rather it left them out until I decide they are
needed. It also expects to find them in a Steinberg directory - what's
that about? More bad stuff? Splitting a session into tracks to make a CD
is really non-intuitive. You have to follow the tutorial every time. I'm
sure plenty more will occur to me, but that will do.


I forgot to ask, Don, does Audition have "audio scrub"
where you can use the mouse or trackball to go backwards
and forwards over a couple of bars to locate an edit point by
ear?

Iain



Yes, it does. Not well implemented though. Provided you are zoomed well
in it performs as you expect. If you have a wide view, though, the jumps
are too big to make sense of what you are hearing.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

Can anyone list the major differences between
CEP2 and Audition? It would be interesting to
know how the program has developed.

I use Audition quite a lot as there is still enough of CEP in there that
I can find my way round the menus blindfold, and that makes work very
quick. Bad things? Bloat - clearly. The thing takes forever to load, and
quite often leaves behind unwanted processes when you shut it. Also it
insists on loading every single DX and and VST plugin as it starts; sure
it is nice to have them readily to hand when you need them, but that is
rare enough that I would rather it left them out until I decide they are
needed. It also expects to find them in a Steinberg directory - what's
that about? More bad stuff? Splitting a session into tracks to make a CD
is really non-intuitive. You have to follow the tutorial every time. I'm
sure plenty more will occur to me, but that will do.


I forgot to ask, Don, does Audition have "audio scrub"
where you can use the mouse or trackball to go backwards
and forwards over a couple of bars to locate an edit point by
ear?

Yes, it does. Not well implemented though. Provided you are zoomed well in
it performs as you expect. If you have a wide view, though, the jumps are
too big to make sense of what you are hearing.


OK. Thanks for that Don. It looks as if Audition still has
a long way to go then even to make it as intuitiuve as a
35mm Steinbeck editing table:-)

For professional music editing you need to be able to
sweep across perhaps six or eight bars and stop the
cursor right on the point of the intended splice.

People have told me that this could not really be done
with sufficient accuract in CEP2.1 and I wondered if
Audition was any better.

For continuity, some conductors and producers
want you to scrub in real time from say the beginning
of a movement, and then crawl to the edit point, in
which case the view would need to be wide.

The visual reference is not enough. Both producers
and conductors expect to hear what is going on
and hear it with precision. They either have their
heads buried in the score, or their eyes closed
when they listen. They often will not look at an
editing screen

Cheers
Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...


The visual reference is not enough. Both producers
and conductors expect to hear what is going on
and hear it with precision. They either have their
heads buried in the score, or their eyes closed
when they listen. They often will not look at an
editing screen


For those of us who have neither producers nor conductors to worry about the
visual reference is entirely good enough. IMO it's better, because you can
see the whole waveform at the same time, no memory is required as when
scrubbing.

David.

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...


The visual reference is not enough. Both producers
and conductors expect to hear what is going on
and hear it with precision. They either have their
heads buried in the score, or their eyes closed
when they listen. They often will not look at an
editing screen


For those of us who have neither producers nor conductors to worry about
the visual reference is entirely good enough. IMO it's better, because you
can see the whole waveform at the same time, no memory is required as when
scrubbing.


Audio scrub was one of the features added to bring
CEP into line with professional audio editors, hence the
suffix Pro. Conductors and producers are part of the
professional scene.

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...


Audio scrub was one of the features added to bring
CEP into line with professional audio editors, hence the
suffix Pro. Conductors and producers are part of the
professional scene.


Part of the professional music-recording-industry scene maybe. There are
many other sorts of "professional scenes" that use audio editing software.

David.

"David Looser" wrote in
message
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...


The visual reference is not enough. Both producers
and conductors expect to hear what is going on
and hear it with precision. They either have their
heads buried in the score, or their eyes closed
when they listen. They often will not look at an
editing screen


For those of us who have neither producers nor conductors
to worry about the visual reference is entirely good
enough.

IME its not only good enough, its better.

IMO it's better, because you can see the whole
waveform at the same time, no memory is required as when
scrubbing.

Do you use cue marks?