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Tape and Dolby



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old September 11th 08, 09:28 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Marky P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Tape and Dolby

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:34:56 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
Well these chaps are trying to help Reel-to-Reel stage a comeback, so
anything is possible:


http://www.tapeproject.com/


Plenty still like vinyl - and endow it with much of the qualities the
testimonials there do.

Personally I always liked 1/4" more than vinyl - my ears preferred the
distortions of that over LP.

Then along came digital...


Anyone remember 'That's' tapes? They had a triangular window instead
of the regular square one. I used to buy them in the 80's as they
looked cool :-)


Marky P.
  #2 (permalink)  
Old September 11th 08, 09:56 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Adrian C
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Posts: 241
Default Tape and Dolby

Marky P wrote:
Anyone remember 'That's' tapes? They had a triangular window instead
of the regular square one. I used to buy them in the 80's as they
looked cool :-)


Yes I remember them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiyo_Yuden

But I was a stickler to TDK. TDK AD was my favorite - and took a nice
bit of abuse with the levels. The AD-X even moreso :-)

First D, then AD, then AD-X, then SA, then SA-X, then AR
http://www.btgallery.com/tdk/index.html


--
Adrian C
  #3 (permalink)  
Old September 12th 08, 09:00 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Marky P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Tape and Dolby

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:56:17 +0100, Adrian C
wrote:

Marky P wrote:
Anyone remember 'That's' tapes? They had a triangular window instead
of the regular square one. I used to buy them in the 80's as they
looked cool :-)


Yes I remember them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiyo_Yuden

But I was a stickler to TDK. TDK AD was my favorite - and took a nice
bit of abuse with the levels. The AD-X even moreso :-)

First D, then AD, then AD-X, then SA, then SA-X, then AR
http://www.btgallery.com/tdk/index.html


Reminds me of a song I wrote all about TDK tapes. All the tape types
were sang about from D right through to MA-XG :-)

Marky P.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old September 12th 08, 01:13 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
The Legend Returns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Tape and Dolby


"Marky P" wrote in message
...

Anyone remember 'That's' tapes? They had a triangular window instead
of the regular square one. I used to buy them in the 80's as they
looked cool :-)


I have a boxful of them, all still sealed, including...

EM-X60, CD/IVF90, CD/IIF, MG-X90, That's Suono 74 and MR-X90PRO

I also have loads of TDK metal tapes all sealed, including a few TDK
MA-XG90, which now make £20 each these days.

tox


  #5 (permalink)  
Old September 12th 08, 06:38 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Serge Auckland[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Tape and Dolby


"Marky P" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:34:56 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
Well these chaps are trying to help Reel-to-Reel stage a comeback, so
anything is possible:


http://www.tapeproject.com/


Plenty still like vinyl - and endow it with much of the qualities the
testimonials there do.

Personally I always liked 1/4" more than vinyl - my ears preferred the
distortions of that over LP.

Then along came digital...


Anyone remember 'That's' tapes? They had a triangular window instead
of the regular square one. I used to buy them in the 80's as they
looked cool :-)


Marky P.


In the mid '80s, I did an evaluation on all the main brands of tape. That's
Tape came out best for MOL, frequency response and noise. It was also pretty
good on consistency batch to batch. Maxell came out next best and TDK third.
The main problem with TDK was that they kept bringing out "new, improved"
formulations that screwed up your tape machine settings. If you were Joe
Public, then it didn't matter, they did things like increase slightly the
bias requirement so you got more top, so it sounded "better". If you had an
immaculately lined-up Nakamichi, that was flat to 1dB at 20k, 1dB Dolby C
tracking and -60dB noise, it screwed things up totally.
I stuck to That's Tape. Still have a few although I no longer have the
immaculately lined-up Nakamichi. Sad in a way, but my PC does infinitely
better recordings with a lot less faf.

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

  #6 (permalink)  
Old September 12th 08, 09:03 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Marky P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Tape and Dolby

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:38:07 +0100, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:


"Marky P" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:34:56 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
Well these chaps are trying to help Reel-to-Reel stage a comeback, so
anything is possible:

http://www.tapeproject.com/

Plenty still like vinyl - and endow it with much of the qualities the
testimonials there do.

Personally I always liked 1/4" more than vinyl - my ears preferred the
distortions of that over LP.

Then along came digital...


Anyone remember 'That's' tapes? They had a triangular window instead
of the regular square one. I used to buy them in the 80's as they
looked cool :-)


Marky P.


In the mid '80s, I did an evaluation on all the main brands of tape. That's
Tape came out best for MOL, frequency response and noise. It was also pretty
good on consistency batch to batch. Maxell came out next best and TDK third.
The main problem with TDK was that they kept bringing out "new, improved"
formulations that screwed up your tape machine settings. If you were Joe
Public, then it didn't matter, they did things like increase slightly the
bias requirement so you got more top, so it sounded "better". If you had an
immaculately lined-up Nakamichi, that was flat to 1dB at 20k, 1dB Dolby C
tracking and -60dB noise, it screwed things up totally.
I stuck to That's Tape. Still have a few although I no longer have the
immaculately lined-up Nakamichi. Sad in a way, but my PC does infinitely
better recordings with a lot less faf.

S.

Let's face it, it's nearly impossible to make naff recordings these
days. Early 80's music centres made abysmal recordings, especially if
they had auto level adjustment.


Marky P.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old September 12th 08, 11:28 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
UnsteadyKen[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Tape and Dolby

Serge Auckland wrote...

Sad in a way, but my PC does infinitely
better recordings with a lot less faf.



The cassette format has had a good lifespan, nearly
50 years now isn't it? I got a used MiniDisc deck 3 years ago
and am very pleased with it. Ideal for digital recording from DAB
and DVB the editing/naming facilities are super for that sort of
use. Sadly I seem to have climbed onto the bandwagon just as the wheels
were falling off. 3 years ago there were 3 sources of blank discs in my
town now there are none and its a 20 mile hike or fleabay. Looks like
Sony are giving up on MD after only 16 years.

On Dolby C; 5/6 years ago I picked an old Aiwa cassette deck at a car
boot just because it had C. I noticed a lot of pumping on recordings I
made,one in particular, some Synth pop stuff was so bad that it had me
on my knees in a fit of giggles at the poor thing. Was this a
characteristic of C or was it just the Aiwa?

--
Ken

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/buddyduck/
  #8 (permalink)  
Old September 13th 08, 09:14 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Serge Auckland[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Tape and Dolby


"UnsteadyKen" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote...

Sad in a way, but my PC does infinitely
better recordings with a lot less faf.



The cassette format has had a good lifespan, nearly
50 years now isn't it? I got a used MiniDisc deck 3 years ago
and am very pleased with it. Ideal for digital recording from DAB
and DVB the editing/naming facilities are super for that sort of
use. Sadly I seem to have climbed onto the bandwagon just as the wheels
were falling off. 3 years ago there were 3 sources of blank discs in my
town now there are none and its a 20 mile hike or fleabay. Looks like
Sony are giving up on MD after only 16 years.

On Dolby C; 5/6 years ago I picked an old Aiwa cassette deck at a car
boot just because it had C. I noticed a lot of pumping on recordings I
made,one in particular, some Synth pop stuff was so bad that it had me
on my knees in a fit of giggles at the poor thing. Was this a
characteristic of C or was it just the Aiwa?

--
Ken

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/buddyduck/


Dolby C was effectively two Dolby B processors cascaded, and working at
different frequencies. In fact, the earlier implementations which both
Nakamichi and AIWA had was made from exactly that, two Dolby B processors
with different filter components. Then, some years later, an IC was released
that had B and C on one chip, but, it was incompatible with the earlier
implementation, probably not far enough out for the general public, but
clearly audible if you had your machines well lined up. I had a Nak and
bought an AIWA for my Dad so the tapes I made for him were compatible.

Anyway, Dolby B was sensitive to alignment, and Dolby C doubly so. If you
found Dolby C to give you pumping noises, then I'd say the alignment was
out. Tape machines had to be aligned to 1dB on Dolby tracking if pumping was
not going to be audible, and the only way of doing that, was to get the
machine aligned to one formulation of tape, and stick to it. Even sticking
to one manufacturer was no guarantee, as they kept "improving" their
formulations so they could put a "new, improved" sticker on the packet, but
which screwed-up the alignment totally. In the mid-80s, I saw many if not
all "enthusiasts" saying they didn't like or use Dolby as it screwed up the
sound, and in every case that I investigated it was due to poor line-up
and/or inadequate machines that couldn't be aligned accurately.

In the studios where I worked in the mid '70s, we realigned the tape
machines every morning, as Dolby A tracking was critical, perhaps we could
have got away with realigning once a week, but it showed that alignment was
crucial. Translate this now to domestic machines that usually never got
aligned, and it's no surprise that the Hi-Fi fraternity never took to Dolby.
With my own machine I realigned it every time I did a recording, and it was
a right faff.

Dolby, especially C, was a great system, but it required a degree of
maintenance that just wasn't possible for the consumer, so very few heard it
working properly.

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

  #9 (permalink)  
Old September 13th 08, 12:27 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Dave Plowman (News)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,872
Default Tape and Dolby

In article ,
Serge Auckland wrote:
Tape machines had to be aligned to 1dB on Dolby tracking if pumping was
not going to be audible, and the only way of doing that, was to get the
machine aligned to one formulation of tape, and stick to it.


I never bothered much with cassettes - but sticking to one brand and type
of pro open reel tape was no guarantee its sensitivity would be
consistent. For our multitracks we used to test every single tape when new
and mark them - then use them in a batch of the same sensititivily to
reduce line up time. We also used to recycle them for the same reason.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old September 13th 08, 01:43 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
jdd
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Posts: 1
Default Tape and Dolby

Dave Plowman (News) a écrit :

I never bothered much with cassettes


I have a cassette deck, not really expensive, that tests the tape
before writing and ajust the bias

the result seems good at the time I had it, but MD is better, even
with max compression and Zoom H2 much better, now. The standard change
and I'm not sure it's always necessary (laser copy for an invoice...)

jdd

--
http://www.dodin.net
http://valerie.dodin.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-eic8MSSfM
 




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