On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:09:35 +0100, "Graham." wrote:



"Marky P" wrote in message
.. .
Last weekend I helped a friend and his wife moved from Bedford to
Penzance. As I was the only one with any knowledge of 'wiring things
up' I set about installing the Hi-Fi system. Anyway, found out that
they forgot to bring the speakers with them (the house they left is
still there's, so they will go back to get them sometime) so I layed
the cables out for the speakers and told his wife not to get the
cables mixed up. "Why?", she said. And I told her that ones is for
the left speaker and one for the right. "I didn't know there was a
difference", she replied. Now, I know I shouldn't worry about these
sort of things, but I really couldn't believe that people don't know
that left & right should be the right way round. Perhaps I'm being
pedantic and it doesn't really matter, but now I'm sitting at home
thinking about them listening to their Michael Buble CD with the
stereo in reverse.

And I shan't even go there with their idea of putting 'shelf' speakers
on the floor!

If you were listening to a nice piece of Brahms and the cellos
were stage left and you knew full well that by convention
they should be stage right (or is it the other way round, I
certainly don't know) then you might be disappointed.

What about if you were listening to a radio drama and
it was important to the plot from where a sound
appears to emanate.

What if the sound was TV sound and it was reversed from
the viewed soundstage.

So yes it's important, but in practice most people won't
notice.
***BUT MARKY***
There is something even more important here IMHO.
More important because if you get it wrong you won't
get a true stereo image at all, just puddles of sound
around their respective speakers.

What I am referring to is the speaker *phasing*
ie the +ve and -ve terminals being correctly wired.
Did you take care to do that?

I certainly did :-)

I told them that both speakers must be wired the same (plus to plus,
etc). As the cable is white, I showed them the ridge down one side
and told 'em to use that as plus. I've heard out of phase speakers
and it sounds very odd.


Marky P.

Try this at home - reverse speakers, out of phase, AND upside down - sounds
magnificent!

--
John the West Ham fan C.E.T.



"Marky P" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:09:35 +0100, "Graham." wrote:



"Marky P" wrote in message
. ..
Last weekend I helped a friend and his wife moved from Bedford to
Penzance. As I was the only one with any knowledge of 'wiring things
up' I set about installing the Hi-Fi system. Anyway, found out that
they forgot to bring the speakers with them (the house they left is
still there's, so they will go back to get them sometime) so I layed
the cables out for the speakers and told his wife not to get the
cables mixed up. "Why?", she said. And I told her that ones is for
the left speaker and one for the right. "I didn't know there was a
difference", she replied. Now, I know I shouldn't worry about these
sort of things, but I really couldn't believe that people don't know
that left & right should be the right way round. Perhaps I'm being
pedantic and it doesn't really matter, but now I'm sitting at home
thinking about them listening to their Michael Buble CD with the
stereo in reverse.

And I shan't even go there with their idea of putting 'shelf' speakers
on the floor!

If you were listening to a nice piece of Brahms and the cellos
were stage left and you knew full well that by convention
they should be stage right (or is it the other way round, I
certainly don't know) then you might be disappointed.

What about if you were listening to a radio drama and
it was important to the plot from where a sound
appears to emanate.

What if the sound was TV sound and it was reversed from
the viewed soundstage.

So yes it's important, but in practice most people won't
notice.
***BUT MARKY***
There is something even more important here IMHO.
More important because if you get it wrong you won't
get a true stereo image at all, just puddles of sound
around their respective speakers.

What I am referring to is the speaker *phasing*
ie the +ve and -ve terminals being correctly wired.
Did you take care to do that?

I certainly did :-)

I told them that both speakers must be wired the same (plus to plus,
etc). As the cable is white, I showed them the ridge down one side
and told 'em to use that as plus. I've heard out of phase speakers
and it sounds very odd.


Marky P.

"Marky P" wrote in message
...
..... I told her that ones is for
the left speaker and one for the right. "I didn't know there was a
difference", she replied.

I have found quite a few setups with left and right speakers in different
rooms, one being used as an extension speaker. Not recommended
for radio panel games, which tend to have panellists panned hard left and
right.

With music though, it's amazing what sound people will put up with so long
as they can tell what notes are being played. I once found a quite widely
released music cassette that had been mastered in antiphase. As I was
working for the company that released it, I know that only one complaint got
back to them. The complaint was from the string bass player in the band,
who had been panned centre and had listened to the tape, with some
disappointment, on a mono player.

--
Tony W
My e-mail address has no hyphen
- but please don't use it, reply to the group.

In article , Tony
wrote:


With music though, it's amazing what sound people will put up with so
long as they can tell what notes are being played. I once found a
quite widely released music cassette that had been mastered in
antiphase.

I have a couple of commercial DVDs of films where the 'mono' soundtrack is
in antiphase stereo. Nastly obvious on a good stereo, but maybe most people
don't notice or assume it has been 'enhanced'. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes
In article , Tony
wrote:


With music though, it's amazing what sound people will put up with so
long as they can tell what notes are being played. I once found a
quite widely released music cassette that had been mastered in
antiphase.

I have a couple of commercial DVDs of films where the 'mono' soundtrack is
in antiphase stereo. Nastly obvious on a good stereo, but maybe most people
don't notice or assume it has been 'enhanced'. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

When listening to mono on headphones, I usually prefer to connect the
earpieces in antiphase. When they are in-phase (which is, of course, the
normal condition) the audio image is dead in the centre of your head.
This is very 'unreal', and soon becomes rather tiring. When in
antiphase, the image is spread throughout your head, and is much more
pleasant to listen to. I think that the same reasoning could be applied
to loudspeakers.
--
Ian

In article , Ian Jackson
wrote:
In message , Jim Lesurf
writes


I have a couple of commercial DVDs of films where the 'mono' soundtrack
is in antiphase stereo. Nastly obvious on a good stereo, but maybe most
people don't notice or assume it has been 'enhanced'. :-)


When listening to mono on headphones, I usually prefer to connect the
earpieces in antiphase. When they are in-phase (which is, of course, the
normal condition) the audio image is dead in the centre of your head.
This is very 'unreal', and soon becomes rather tiring. When in
antiphase, the image is spread throughout your head, and is much more
pleasant to listen to. I think that the same reasoning could be applied
to loudspeakers.


The distinction is that when you listen to headphones each ear only really
picks up one channel. Whereas when listening to speakers both ears will get
signals from both channels.

With antiphase mono in a symmetric arrangement with minimal reverb this
means you will be virtually at a sound pressure null for low to mid
frequencies. In effect, your ears will pick up the differently signed
differentials resulting from their spatial displacements from the null
point.

The result tends to be a very low sound level at the listening location,
with a distorted frequency response that depends a lot on the room acoustic
and speaker dispersion patterns. So the results may vary wildly from one
setup to another. Not the same result as with headphones.

I therefore get totally different effects from antiphase when in the three
different rooms I where I have stereo systems. Can't say I like the effect
in any of them, but YMMV. Interesting with Jimi Henrix, though... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Ian Jackson wrote:

When listening to mono on headphones, I usually prefer to connect the
earpieces in antiphase. When they are in-phase (which is, of course, the
normal condition) the audio image is dead in the centre of your head.
This is very 'unreal', and soon becomes rather tiring. When in
antiphase, the image is spread throughout your head, and is much more
pleasant to listen to. I think that the same reasoning could be applied
to loudspeakers.

Do you have a special pair for mono with one driver reversed or an
adapter plug?

--
Eiron.

In message , Eiron
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:

When listening to mono on headphones, I usually prefer to connect the
earpieces in antiphase. When they are in-phase (which is, of course,
the normal condition) the audio image is dead in the centre of your
head. This is very 'unreal', and soon becomes rather tiring. When in
antiphase, the image is spread throughout your head, and is much more
pleasant to listen to. I think that the same reasoning could be
applied to loudspeakers.

Do you have a special pair for mono with one driver reversed or an
adapter plug?

I use what is known as 'TTT' ('Tobacco Tin Technology'). Two headphone
sockets are mounted through the wall of the tin. One is for the input
from a mono audio source. The other is the output to a normal pair of
stereo headphones. The two sockets are cross-wired so that the
headphones are in series (no particular reason - parallel would work
just as well - it just seemed a good idea at the time) and in antiphase.
If I have a stereo source, I don't use TTT. I just plug the headphones
directly into the audio source. Of course, I really should have added a
phase-reversing to the tobacco tin, but life's too short.

However, I'm sure I've seen adverts for headphones which do have a
reversing switch. I feel a Google coming on.
--
Ian