"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi
"Stephen McLuckie" wrote in
message
et...
Trevor Wilson wrote:


**If you use a bass guitar, then don't bother tuning
much below 80Hz. For lead/rhythm guitars, there is no
need for any signal remotely that low. Use a smaller
box and tune higher.

I have been following this list for a while - mainly,
but not always, as a lurker - and I must say, I am in
awe of the knowledge and expertise of the people who
post here. It's interesting, however, that there are a
few areas in which complete ignorance reigns. Because the lowest
frequency of a bass guitar cab
(4-string) is around 40Hz, you should tune a bass guitar
cab to around 45Hz. For normal electric guitar, don't
use a reflex cab, use a sealed cab or an open-backed
cab, depending on the parameters of the speaker.

5-string bass guitars are not uncommon - particularly
on recording sessions. The lowest string is normally
tuned to B natural, at approx 30Hz.

Right, and if you do a proper job of transmitting them through an audio
system, the fundamental is significant.

Most bass guitar amps are not really all that competent of bass reproducers.

TTT wrote:


So if I put a driver like this in a 150 litre box, what problems do I
encounter?

How's your back? Do you really want to carry something the size of a fridge to gigs? Do you have a house with a lot of space and a big car?
Other guitarists will laugh at you. Some insensitive people will wonder whether you are compensating for the size of your penis.

Why are guitar speakers put into small boxes? To control the
amount of bass they produce?

Because they don't need to produce large amounts of low bass.

How will my 150 litre box sound?

Just guessing, but your cabinet will probably sound boomy and boxy.

It's already nearly finished, what kind of
results are you predicting I will get? If it is too bassy I will remove the
bass reflex holes and then I will have a 150 litre sealed cab. How do you
think it will work that way?

Boom boom boom boom. Fart.

From my experience, normal guitar cabs sound like they lack in bass
response. They are tight, and clear, I want something with a bit more bass.
What should I go for?

You may be confusing excess treble with lack of bass. I think the driver you have will give you the nice, smooth, rounded sound I think you're after. Build a sealed cab, as opened back cabs tend to be brighter (i.e. less bass). What did you think of the sound clip? There was plenty of bass there, wasn't there? And there's always the bass knob on your amp.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi
"Stephen McLuckie" wrote in
message
et...
Trevor Wilson wrote:


**If you use a bass guitar, then don't bother tuning
much below 80Hz. For lead/rhythm guitars, there is no
need for any signal remotely that low. Use a smaller
box and tune higher.

I have been following this list for a while - mainly,
but not always, as a lurker - and I must say, I am in
awe of the knowledge and expertise of the people who
post here. It's interesting, however, that there are a
few areas in which complete ignorance reigns. Because the lowest
frequency of a bass guitar cab
(4-string) is around 40Hz, you should tune a bass guitar
cab to around 45Hz. For normal electric guitar, don't
use a reflex cab, use a sealed cab or an open-backed
cab, depending on the parameters of the speaker.

5-string bass guitars are not uncommon - particularly
on recording sessions. The lowest string is normally
tuned to B natural, at approx 30Hz.

Right, and if you do a proper job of transmitting them through an audio
system, the fundamental is significant.

Agreed


Most bass guitar amps are not really all that competent of bass
reproducers.


For that very reason it is often avantageous to use a DI
(direct injection) box, and split the feed, taking a direct to
the console, with a mic on the speaker to capture the colour
which gives the stage sound its sonic signature.

The fundamental, 30Hz on a 5-string bass guitar,
is indeed significant.

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi
"Stephen McLuckie" wrote
in message
et...
Trevor Wilson wrote:


**If you use a bass guitar, then don't bother tuning
much below 80Hz. For lead/rhythm guitars, there is no
need for any signal remotely that low. Use a smaller
box and tune higher.

I have been following this list for a while - mainly,
but not always, as a lurker - and I must say, I am in
awe of the knowledge and expertise of the people who
post here. It's interesting, however, that there are a
few areas in which complete ignorance reigns. Because
the lowest frequency of a bass guitar cab
(4-string) is around 40Hz, you should tune a bass
guitar cab to around 45Hz. For normal electric guitar, don't
use a reflex cab, use a sealed cab or an open-backed
cab, depending on the parameters of the speaker.

5-string bass guitars are not uncommon - particularly
on recording sessions. The lowest string is normally
tuned to B natural, at approx 30Hz.

Right, and if you do a proper job of transmitting them
through an audio system, the fundamental is significant.

Agreed

Most bass guitar amps are not really all that competent
of bass reproducers.

For that very reason it is often advantageous to use a DI
(direct injection) box, and split the feed, taking a
direct to the console, with a mic on the speaker to
capture the colour which gives the stage sound its sonic
signature.

At church we ran with dedicated bass amps for over a year, and then wised up
and changed over to running a direct box into a heavily-equed input on the
console.

The music director finds it far easier to direct me with my digital
console's parametric eq at my fingertips, in order to get the sound he
wants. This is much better than struggling with a muso who hobbled is by
the inflexible simplistic tone controls on most bass amps.

Also, I'm monitoring out in the FOH where the audience sits, and not on
stage where the sound is considerably different from what the audience
hears.

Not having a bass amp on stage also makes life easier for the other
musicians, as it isn't blasting in their ears from the typical back line
location.

The fundamental, 30Hz on a 5-string bass guitar,
is indeed significant.

I've recorded hours and hours of it. Spectrum analysis of it was easy since
I mix in Audition which has a pretty good spectrum analyzer built in.

BTW, our pipe organ has a 16 foot rank, and sometimes the organist plays a
bass line along with the band. BTW the organist is a jazz pianist at night.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote
in message

**Nonsense. The lowest useful frequency from a bass
guitar is higher than 80Hz. Almost no fundamental is
audible. It's all second harmonic.

Written by someone who has obviously never actually analyzed the signal
that comes out of a pickup from a bass guitar.

**Wrong, but I have certainly not examined all of them. In fact, I've only
examined 3 or 4. All were 4 string bass.


The fundamentals can be there if you don't lose them along the way.

**Sure. The fundamental is at such a low level, that few ever hear much of
it.


I do suspect that few bass guitar amps are actually competent reproducers
of the region 32 Hz, which is approximately the fundamental of the lowest
note playable on a 5-string bass guitar.

**The AMP may well be a competent reproducer of the lowest frequencies, but
the speakers rarely are. FWIW, most players filter out the lowest
frequencies anyway. They tend to prefer a 'faster' more 'articulate' bass.
This means that frequencies as high 1kHz are often boosted.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Trevor Wilson"
wrote in message

**Nonsense. The lowest useful frequency from a bass
guitar is higher than 80Hz. Almost no fundamental is
audible. It's all second harmonic.

Written by someone who has obviously never actually
analyzed the signal that comes out of a pickup from a
bass guitar.

**Wrong, but I have certainly not examined all of them.
In fact, I've only examined 3 or 4. All were 4 string
bass.

The fundamentals can be there if you don't lose them
along the way.

**Sure. The fundamental is at such a low level, that few
ever hear much of it.

I just pulled up the bass track from a multitrack recording that I made at
church. The most intense harmonic was second, followed by fourth, third, and
fundamental. The fundamental was only 8 dB below the most intense harmonic,
the second.

I do suspect that few bass guitar amps are actually
competent reproducers of the region 32 Hz, which is
approximately the fundamental of the lowest note
playable on a 5-string bass guitar.

**The AMP may well be a competent reproducer of the
lowest frequencies, but the speakers rarely are.

Agreed in that I was speaking of "guitar amp", the common nomenclature for
an assembly that includes the speaker.

FWIW, most players filter out the lowest frequencies anyway.

Not the case with the players I record. We boost the bass end of this
channel pretty hard, with a pretty steep roll-off. I don't have the mixer
at hand, so I don't know the exact frequencies, Qs, and boost. If memory
serves, there's a 10 dB peak in the 40 Hz range, Q on the order 2, plus
other filters. Everthing above 2 Khz is filtered out very heavily, but
there's a big, more gentle roll-off starting around 150 Hz.

They tend to prefer a 'faster' more 'articulate' bass.
This means that frequencies as high 1kHz are often
boosted.

That gives you a sort of slappy, twangy sound. Different horses for
different courses.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Trevor Wilson" wrote
in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Trevor Wilson"
wrote in message

**Nonsense. The lowest useful frequency from a bass
guitar is higher than 80Hz. Almost no fundamental is
audible. It's all second harmonic.

Written by someone who has obviously never actually
analyzed the signal that comes out of a pickup from a
bass guitar.

**Wrong, but I have certainly not examined all of them.
In fact, I've only examined 3 or 4. All were 4 string
bass.

The fundamentals can be there if you don't lose them
along the way.

**Sure. The fundamental is at such a low level, that few
ever hear much of it.

I just pulled up the bass track from a multitrack recording that I made at
church. The most intense harmonic was second, followed by fourth, third,
and fundamental. The fundamental was only 8 dB below the most intense
harmonic, the second.

**Which is not too far from my own measurements.


I do suspect that few bass guitar amps are actually
competent reproducers of the region 32 Hz, which is
approximately the fundamental of the lowest note
playable on a 5-string bass guitar.

**The AMP may well be a competent reproducer of the
lowest frequencies, but the speakers rarely are.

Agreed in that I was speaking of "guitar amp", the common nomenclature for
an assembly that includes the speaker.

FWIW, most players filter out the lowest frequencies anyway.

Not the case with the players I record. We boost the bass end of this
channel pretty hard, with a pretty steep roll-off. I don't have the
mixer at hand, so I don't know the exact frequencies, Qs, and boost. If
memory serves, there's a 10 dB peak in the 40 Hz range, Q on the order
2, plus other filters. Everthing above 2 Khz is filtered out very heavily,
but there's a big, more gentle roll-off starting around 150 Hz.

They tend to prefer a 'faster' more 'articulate' bass.
This means that frequencies as high 1kHz are often
boosted.

That gives you a sort of slappy, twangy sound. Different horses for
different courses.

**Of course.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au