If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how
do I determine this?

wrote in message
...
If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how
do I determine this?
;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZutcPUd_AVQ
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote:

wrote in message
...
If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how
do I determine this?
;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZutcPUd_AVQ
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

wrote in message
...
If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how
do I determine this?


It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of
music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud you
like to listen to it and the size of your listening room .

If you had very efficient speakers - like Lowther PM6 units - with a
sensitivity of 92dB/W or thereabouts you could probably get away with
10Wper channel. If they were/are more like the efficiency of a few
modern units at, say, 82dB/W then by that process you would need
100W/channel to achieve the same sound level - 10dB being a factor of 10
times in terms of power. Given that many speakers are around 86-88dB/W
then an amp of the order of something like 25-40W per channel is about
right. You should have no difficulty finding an amp within that power in
this range - look at those by NAD, Cambridge, Marantz, Denon,
Harmon-Kardon, Sony, and Yamaha as examples, with www.richersounds.co.uk
being a good starting web site.

However do not be afraid to buy an amp of greater power - which actually
you may find easier to do. You are unlikely to damage your speakers with
too much power - you will hear the effects (usually 'cracking' on music
peaks) long before you do them any damage - but it is very easy to blow
them (specifically the tweeters) by having an underpowered amp and
turning the wick up too much. (If you want an explanation of how this
can happen just ask.)

Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as
classical or jazz, as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at
least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are
all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

Woody wrote:
It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of
music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud you
like to listen to it and the size of your listening room .


Focal JMLab Chorus 714V

Power handling 130W max
Sensitivity 91dB


Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as
classical or jazz,

I do

as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at
least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are
all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different.

But do they?
And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is that the
listening room is very different from where I will be using the
amplifier.

Phileas

wrote:

Woody wrote:
It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of
music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud you
like to listen to it and the size of your listening room .


Focal JMLab Chorus 714V

Power handling 130W max
Sensitivity 91dB


Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as
classical or jazz,

I do

as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at
least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are
all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different.

But do they?
And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is that the
listening room is very different from where I will be using the
amplifier.

Phileas

wrote in message
...


Woody wrote:
It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type
of
music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud
you
like to listen to it and the size of your listening room .


Focal JMLab Chorus 714V

Power handling 130W max
Sensitivity 91dB


Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as
classical or jazz,

I do

as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at
least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they
are
all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different.

But do they?
And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is that the
listening room is very different from where I will be using the
amplifier.

Phileas


Put it like this, go listen to an ArCam amp followed by something like
an Marantz or Denon and you will quickly notice the difference. ArCam to
my eras are excessively bright with anything.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

In article
,
wrote:


Woody wrote:
It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of
music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud
you like to listen to it and the size of your listening room .


Focal JMLab Chorus 714V

Power handling 130W max Sensitivity 91dB

OK


Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as
classical or jazz,

I do

OK

You haven't said anything about the size and acoustics of your room. This
matters as the room can have a large effect on how much power you may
need. Ditto for how loud you play the music.

What amp do you use at present? Does it give obvious signs of clipping peak
levels? Does it overheat? If neither, then the present power level is
likely to be adequate.

Also, if curious about the levels you use, buy a cheap sound pressure
meter from someone like CPC or Maplin (much cheaper than a fancy amp)
and do some measurements near your speakers and your normal listening
position. Tell us the results.


as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at least listen to the
amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are all designed to
achieve the same sonic end they do sound different.

But do they?

See elsewhere. As you will have discovered, some people are convinced that
amps can be 'wine tasted' and generally produce audibly different sounds.
However the experimental evidence - when gathered in ways designed to make
people judge by sound, not name-label - tends show this belief to be
unfounded in general, albeit with exceptions.


And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is
that the listening room is very different from where I will be using the
amplifier.

Indeed. However that is a vastly harder problem when choosing speakers than
amplifiers. And you seem to have chosen your speakers, so this can't be
impossibly difficult. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Oct 13, 9:10*am, Jim Lesurf wrote:
As you will have discovered, some people are convinced that
amps can be 'wine tasted' and generally produce audibly different sounds.
However the experimental evidence - when gathered in ways designed to make
people judge by sound, not name-label - tends show this belief to be
unfounded in general, albeit with exceptions.

And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is
that the listening room is very different from where I will be using the
amplifier.

Indeed. However that is a vastly harder problem when choosing speakers than
amplifiers. And you seem to have chosen your speakers, so this can't be
impossibly difficult. *:-)

Well, the room in which I compared the speakers was quite a bit bigger
than my actual listening room (11'x13'x8') so I'm not sure really
whether I chose the best of the three I compared. They are probably
too big for my room but then I don't need to have them very loud to
"fill" it.

This is the difficulty with comparing in shops.

Phileas

In article
,
wrote:
On Oct 13, 9:10 am, Jim Lesurf wrote:

And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is that the
listening room is very different from where I will be using the
amplifier.

Indeed. However that is a vastly harder problem when choosing speakers
than amplifiers. And you seem to have chosen your speakers, so this
can't be impossibly difficult. :-)

Well, the room in which I compared the speakers was quite a bit bigger
than my actual listening room (11'x13'x8') so I'm not sure really
whether I chose the best of the three I compared. They are probably too
big for my room but then I don't need to have them very loud to "fill"
it.

This is the difficulty with comparing in shops.

Yes. And it tends to matter far less when choosing an amplifier than
speakers. If in doubt, make sure they have a larger room than yours, and
try to get them to play the amp with speakers that have a lower efficiency
and lower impedance. This will make it likely the amp has enough power for
you if OK in the shop.

However if your audiolab seems to you not to clip or overheat I doubt you
will have a problem with most other = 50Wpc amps in terms of power unless
your speakers drop to low impedance. The 8000 series tends to have pokey
small heatsinks[1], but can IIRC deliver reasonably high peak currents.

Above said, I haven't yet seen you say anything that makes me feel you
would benefit from a new amp. Except perhaps in the way of feeling pleased
to own and use a newer and - allegedly - 'better' one.

Slainte,

Jim

[1] The 8000A I have in bits has heatsinks smaller than my old Armstrong
626s. Both designs have tiny heatsinks by 'super fi' standards. (Although
the 8000 disguises this by hiding them inside the box.) Yet generally they
work fine for classical or other acoustic and uncompressed music without
overheating.

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html