On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:07:45 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote in message
news:49252ae2.230285046@localhost
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:11:02 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et
Arny Krueger wrote:

http://delback.co.uk/turntable_tests/
For grins, you might try to extract some frequency
response information from them.

The Linn Sondek in that last link has the most
fearsome wow (about 0.3% RMS) - bad enough to be a
real fault, I think.

Correct that. The predominate jitter frequency seems to
be 0.55 Hz - off-center record.

A test record shouldn't be able to go off-centre. All of
mine are drilled small, and are a very tight fit on the
spindle.

Who says that the hole was necessarily drilled or
punched in the right place?

Where else do we get 0.55 Hz FM from?

Well, that's the wow.

Agreed.

The raison d'etre of a test record
is that it is in itself far better than what you are
testing.

Some people seem to be a little weak on that point. ;-)

If we can't trust the makers even to put the
hole in the middle we may as well all give up right now.

Well, that's the problem with the LP format. It's dependent on all these
little mechanical thingies that even the people who are making short runs of
$50 test records can't seem to get right. What hope would there be for the
$2.95 LPs that you bought at the K-Mart store in the day of?

Well, us older folks know the answer to that - not much hope for the LP. 99%
of all music lovers moved on past the LP for this and many other related
reasons.

However, if you think that music with built-in wow is somehow "more musical"
than music with no audible flutter and wow, then that would be a pretty
strange view on "High Fidelity". To be exact, it would be "Low Fidelity".



Well, it certainly can be done. Here's a 300Hz track off my HFN test
record. Looking at it in spectral view in Audition, there is no wow
that I can discern. The setup is a Systemdek IV, SME 3009ii and
Audio-Technica OC9.

http://81.174.169.10/odds/wowtest.wav

d

In article , Iain
Churches wrote:


Excellent article, Jim.

In the words of the sages: Don't clap - throw money. :-))

It confirms why even now the Shure V15III is so often the cartridge of
choice for many discerning transcription clients.

When I contacted Shure UK about the M97 I did initially encounter people
who seemed not to know they made cartridges. However I finally got in
contact with someone who'd been with them since the years the V15's were on
sale and he was very helpful.

I did say to him, "I wish you still made the V15 series!" and his response
was "So do I!". Ditto when I spoke to someone at Shure in the USA. But
apparently their powers-that-be decided long ago that this market isn't
really of interest to them any more.

I sent each of my V15 styluses to the Expert Stylus people. I was initially
planning to get one re-tipped. But the reports were that they were in
excellent condition so no need to do anything. They commented that with
the V15 the rates of wear are so light (if used with care) that they
last for very long times. This was good news, but meant I didn't
explore one area I'd planned - to compare modern re-tipped versions with
a used original. However I now have an extra V15/III body, so may use
that with a 'new stylus' in future to see if it comes anything like
near the same level of performance.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article 492657b4.241759875@localhost, Don Pearce (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:07:45 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Well, it certainly can be done. Here's a 300Hz track off my HFN test
record. Looking at it in spectral view in Audition, there is no wow that
I can discern. The setup is a Systemdek IV, SME 3009ii and
Audio-Technica OC9.

http://81.174.169.10/odds/wowtest.wav

Although I ignored this for the article, my measurements did give values
for speed accuracy and fluctuation levels. The levels were small. But I do
use a direct drive TT, so I'd expect that.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
If we can't trust the makers even to put the
hole in the middle we may as well all give up right now.

Well, that's the problem with the LP format. It's dependent on all these
little mechanical thingies that even the people who are making short
runs of $50 test records can't seem to get right. What hope would there
be for the $2.95 LPs that you bought at the K-Mart store in the day of?

Does seem strange to me they could press to the accuracy needed but get
the hole off centre by many many groove widths...

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Don Pearce wrote in message
news:492657b4.241759875@localhost

Well, it certainly can be done. Here's a 300Hz track off
my HFN test record. Looking at it in spectral view in
Audition, there is no wow that I can discern. The setup
is a Systemdek IV, SME 3009ii and Audio-Technica OC9.

http://81.174.169.10/odds/wowtest.wav

I nice example of no audible wow, just some 2 Hz flutter maybe 50 dB down.

Just out of the box, or did you *improve* the centering of the test record
tracks?

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message


Although I ignored this for the article, my measurements
did give values for speed accuracy and fluctuation
levels. The levels were small. But I do use a direct
drive TT, so I'd expect that.

I did some tests on a Dual 701 (direct drive if memory serves) I believe it
was, and there was some high frequency flutter - low but measurable.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:34:29 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote in message
news:492657b4.241759875@localhost

Well, it certainly can be done. Here's a 300Hz track off
my HFN test record. Looking at it in spectral view in
Audition, there is no wow that I can discern. The setup
is a Systemdek IV, SME 3009ii and Audio-Technica OC9.

http://81.174.169.10/odds/wowtest.wav

I nice example of no audible wow, just some 2 Hz flutter maybe 50 dB down.

Just out of the box, or did you *improve* the centering of the test record
tracks?


Nothing - just put it on (ok, sort of forced it over the spindle) and
recorded it.

d

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:31:41 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:07:45 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote in message
news:49252ae2.230285046@localhost
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:11:02 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et
Arny Krueger wrote:

http://delback.co.uk/turntable_tests/
For grins, you might try to extract some frequency
response information from them.

The Linn Sondek in that last link has the most
fearsome wow (about 0.3% RMS) - bad enough to be a
real fault, I think.

Correct that. The predominate jitter frequency seems to
be 0.55 Hz - off-center record.

A test record shouldn't be able to go off-centre. All of
mine are drilled small, and are a very tight fit on the
spindle.

Who says that the hole was necessarily drilled or
punched in the right place?

Where else do we get 0.55 Hz FM from?

Well, that's the wow.

Agreed.

The raison d'etre of a test record
is that it is in itself far better than what you are
testing.

Some people seem to be a little weak on that point. ;-)

If we can't trust the makers even to put the
hole in the middle we may as well all give up right now.

Well, that's the problem with the LP format. It's dependent on all these
little mechanical thingies that even the people who are making short runs of
$50 test records can't seem to get right. What hope would there be for the
$2.95 LPs that you bought at the K-Mart store in the day of?

Well, us older folks know the answer to that - not much hope for the LP. 99%
of all music lovers moved on past the LP for this and many other related
reasons.

However, if you think that music with built-in wow is somehow "more musical"
than music with no audible flutter and wow, then that would be a pretty
strange view on "High Fidelity". To be exact, it would be "Low Fidelity".



Well, it certainly can be done. Here's a 300Hz track off my HFN test
record. Looking at it in spectral view in Audition, there is no wow
that I can discern. The setup is a Systemdek IV, SME 3009ii and
Audio-Technica OC9.

http://81.174.169.10/odds/wowtest.wav

d

Keep that record!
http://www.wareing77.plus.com/don-polar1.jpg

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:27:35 +0000, Goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:31:41 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:07:45 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote in message
news:49252ae2.230285046@localhost
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:11:02 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
et
Arny Krueger wrote:

http://delback.co.uk/turntable_tests/
For grins, you might try to extract some frequency
response information from them.

The Linn Sondek in that last link has the most
fearsome wow (about 0.3% RMS) - bad enough to be a
real fault, I think.

Correct that. The predominate jitter frequency seems to
be 0.55 Hz - off-center record.

A test record shouldn't be able to go off-centre. All of
mine are drilled small, and are a very tight fit on the
spindle.

Who says that the hole was necessarily drilled or
punched in the right place?

Where else do we get 0.55 Hz FM from?

Well, that's the wow.

Agreed.

The raison d'etre of a test record
is that it is in itself far better than what you are
testing.

Some people seem to be a little weak on that point. ;-)

If we can't trust the makers even to put the
hole in the middle we may as well all give up right now.

Well, that's the problem with the LP format. It's dependent on all these
little mechanical thingies that even the people who are making short runs of
$50 test records can't seem to get right. What hope would there be for the
$2.95 LPs that you bought at the K-Mart store in the day of?

Well, us older folks know the answer to that - not much hope for the LP. 99%
of all music lovers moved on past the LP for this and many other related
reasons.

However, if you think that music with built-in wow is somehow "more musical"
than music with no audible flutter and wow, then that would be a pretty
strange view on "High Fidelity". To be exact, it would be "Low Fidelity".



Well, it certainly can be done. Here's a 300Hz track off my HFN test
record. Looking at it in spectral view in Audition, there is no wow
that I can discern. The setup is a Systemdek IV, SME 3009ii and
Audio-Technica OC9.

http://81.174.169.10/odds/wowtest.wav

d

Keep that record!
http://www.wareing77.plus.com/don-polar1.jpg

What is that a plot of, and what is the software?

d

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:36:49 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:



What is that a plot of, and what is the software?


Frequency (r) v rotation of platter (theta) for about ten seconds of
your file, with the start cut off.

Just something I knocked up a few years ago in Labview. 'Software FM
radio'?