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Serious vinyl quality control problem?
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
Don Pearce wrote ... I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records 1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other: http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity? Back in the 1970's Shure sent out marketing people to local stereo shops demonstrating how good their latest phono cartridge (V15?) was. AFAIK, there were at least 5 different V15s, 3 or 4 came out during the 60s and 70s. The show was great until I brought them my "killer album", (IIRC Neil Diamond "Taproot Manuscript") which had an extreme guitar transient in the intro to one of the songs. They never found a solution to tracking that song. My Stanton at home came closer to success than their pickup. That's pretty strange (but I'll take your words at face value) because IME Stantons weren't that great at tracking. Furthermore, Shure kept at it, and continued to make significant improvements in the tracking of their cartrdiges. A friend gave me a Stanton 681EEE with a stylus assembly that worked but not well, and another stylus assembly NOS, NIB that was quite amazingly totally dead. I'm under the impression that Stanton stylus assemblies are passive, so finding one that seemed to be normal, but had zero output is really weird. |
Serious vinyl quality control problem?
Its not always the tape though. You can on one particular LP my mother had
by Frank Sinatra, hear the tape hiss come in just before the start of the sound, but one turn prior to that, you can hear the sound as well. Its far too much of a coincidence it would be one turn as well. I cannot play these games any more unfortunately. I have to use a Technics sl5 with an Ortofon Cart these days. Its showing signs of the dreaded sticky lubricant as well. Needs its arm serviced. Brian -- Brian Gaff - Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff' in the display name may be lost. Blind user, so no pictures please! "David Nebenzahl" wrote in message s.com... On 2/4/2009 9:10 AM Brian Gaff spake thus: The worst I've encountered is the very audible signal from the adjacent turn so to speak. I wonder what your sample had been played on though. What you're describing has nothing to do with vinyl; you're talking about "print-through", which is an artifact of the tape mastering machine feeding the cutter, where you can hear signals from adjacent lengths of tape. -- Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is "If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me". - lifted from sci.electronics.repair |
Serious vinyl quality control problem?
On 2/5/2009 11:57 AM Brian Gaff spake thus:
Its not always the tape though. You can on one particular LP my mother had by Frank Sinatra, hear the tape hiss come in just before the start of the sound, but one turn prior to that, you can hear the sound as well. Its far too much of a coincidence it would be one turn as well. I cannot play these games any more unfortunately. I have to use a Technics sl5 with an Ortofon Cart these days. Its showing signs of the dreaded sticky lubricant as well. Needs its arm serviced. Can't fix it with a couple spritzes of contact cleaner judiciously applied? -- Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is "If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me". - lifted from sci.electronics.repair |
Serious vinyl quality control problem?
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Back in the 1970's Shure sent out marketing people to local stereo shops demonstrating how good their latest phono cartridge (V15?) was. AFAIK, there were at least 5 different V15s, 3 or 4 came out during the 60s and 70s. The show was great until I brought them my "killer album", (IIRC Neil Diamond "Taproot Manuscript") which had an extreme guitar transient in the intro to one of the songs. They never found a solution to tracking that song. My Stanton at home came closer to success than their pickup. That's pretty strange (but I'll take your words at face value) because IME Stantons weren't that great at tracking. Furthermore, Shure kept at it, and continued to make significant improvements in the tracking of their cartrdiges. Yep, Stanton never made a cartridge that came close to a V15VMR! And IME a 681EEE was not as good as a V15III in the seventies. Also My V15III at the time had no trouble with Tap Root Manuscript. Shure's own "Audio Obstacle Course" was a more difficult test. Maybe the Stanton had already damaged the record, and was tracking at twice the weight! MrT. |
Serious vinyl quality control problem?
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message m... I often used to wonder about the out of phase effects on some records, because in theory, these make the groove deeper and shallower, I'd imagine. As for grooves actually intersecting, this would surely have shown up on the master, I'd think. I had some issues in the 70s with that Pye plant pressing records with bits of paper clearly poking out in some places. So much for quality control of recycled Vinyl. Left and right channels out of phase will cause vertical groove modulation, making the groove deeper and shallower. If you ever looked at stereo on an oscilloscope in x-y mode, which pretty much displays the motion of the stylus (if you're using a stylus ;-) you will see that the stylus moves in all directions with normal stereo. The audio looks like a cotton ball on the screen. In x-y mode, L=R (in phase) is normally a diagonal line going up to the right; L=-R (out of phase) is normally a diagonal line going up to the left. Fortunately, long wavelengths and large excursions are mostly in the low frequencies, which tend to have minimal out of phase characteristics (which is why subwoofers are practical). But just in case, I do believe that record cutters did blend left and right channels in the low frequencies, to reduce the risk of the cutter leaving the surface entirely. I have seen grooves intersect on records that I own, but the stylus rides a long ways below the surface, so it is really only a problem if the *bottoms* of the grooves overlap. Then the stylus would have a "choice" wouldn't it? That would be bad... |
Serious vinyl quality control problem?
In article m,
David Nebenzahl wrote: On 2/4/2009 9:10 AM Brian Gaff spake thus: The worst I've encountered is the very audible signal from the adjacent turn so to speak. I wonder what your sample had been played on though. What you're describing has nothing to do with vinyl; you're talking about "print-through", which is an artifact of the tape mastering machine feeding the cutter, where you can hear signals from adjacent lengths of tape. Dunno about the record industry but I would edit in leader tape to remove any from the start of a track. -- *A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Serious vinyl quality control problem?
"Karl Uppiano" wrote in message
... Fortunately, long wavelengths and large excursions are mostly in the low frequencies, which tend to have minimal out of phase characteristics (which is why subwoofers are practical). More to the point as far as subwoofers are concerned, the ability of human hearing to determine the direction of a sound source becomes less effective as the wavelength lengthen, becoming pretty well non-existent at frequencies of 50Hz and below. So not only does it not matter if these frequencies are presented in mono, but it doesn't matter much where the subwoofer is in relation to the subs either. David. |
Serious vinyl quality control problem?
"David Looser" wrote in message ... "Karl Uppiano" wrote in message ... Fortunately, long wavelengths and large excursions are mostly in the low frequencies, which tend to have minimal out of phase characteristics (which is why subwoofers are practical). More to the point as far as subwoofers are concerned, the ability of human hearing to determine the direction of a sound source becomes less effective as the wavelength lengthen, becoming pretty well non-existent at frequencies of 50Hz and below. So not only does it not matter if these frequencies are presented in mono, but it doesn't matter much where the subwoofer is in relation to the subs either. David. That has not been my experience. I ended up with two subs, each sitting alongside each main, as I couldn't get on with one only. If the sub was centred between the two loudspeakers, that wasn't too bad, as at least the extreme bass was mono, but when the sub was to one side, it was most peculiar. I find there is stereo in the extreme bass, especially in Jazz, and classical music, although not a lot in rock, and very little on vinyl, which tends to mono the extreme bass anyway. S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
Serious vinyl quality control problem?
On Feb 5, 11:23*pm, "Karl Uppiano" wrote:
Fortunately, long wavelengths and large excursions are mostly in the low frequencies, Uh, I would hope long wavelengths are mostly at low frequencies. :-) which tend to have minimal out of phase characteristics (which is why subwoofers are practical). I assume you mean "single" or "mono" subwoofers here. I have seen grooves intersect on records that I own, but the stylus rides a long ways below the surface, so it is really only a problem if the *bottoms* of the grooves overlap. Then the stylus would have a "choice" wouldn't it? That would be bad... I have such a record in my collection. It's an old RCA release of (I believe) Toscanini conducting Dukas' Sorcerer's Apprentice. At the final orchestral crash before the concluding section, on playing you hear the final bars before that note leading up to it and then, ... nothing but reverb tail. By adjusting the anti-skating a little on the high side, it would play just fine. I looked at it with a microscope once and, indeed, there was a lot of confused grooves for about 2 revolutions. |
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