I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped
an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records
1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two
adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other:

http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg

Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity?

d

Don Pearce wrote ...
I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped
an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records
1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two
adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other:

http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg

Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity?

Back in the 1970's Shure sent out marketing people to local stereo
shops demonstrating how good their latest phono cartridge (V15?)
was. The show was great until I brought them my "killer album",
(IIRC Neil Diamond "Taproot Manuscript") which had an extreme
guitar transient in the intro to one of the songs. They never found a
solution to tracking that song. My Stanton at home came closer
to success than their pickup.

The worst I've encountered is the very audible signal from the adjacent turn
so to speak.
I wonder what your sample had been played on though.
Brian

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Don Pearce wrote in message news:4992beba.108434515@localhost...
I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped
an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records
1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two
adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other:

http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg

Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity?

d

A lot of the problems with transients though is resonances in the system
between the mass of the arm and the compliance of the cartridge.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote ...
I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped
an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records
1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two
adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other:

http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg

Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity?

Back in the 1970's Shure sent out marketing people to local stereo
shops demonstrating how good their latest phono cartridge (V15?)
was. The show was great until I brought them my "killer album",
(IIRC Neil Diamond "Taproot Manuscript") which had an extreme
guitar transient in the intro to one of the songs. They never found a
solution to tracking that song. My Stanton at home came closer
to success than their pickup.

Don Pearce wrote in message news:4992beba.108434515@localhost...
I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped
an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records
1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two
adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other:

http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg

Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity?


Neither rare nor common.
It was normal practice to examine heavily modulated passages
under ther microscope after cutting both the test and the final
master. Many cutting engineers used to also test cut loud segments
with excessive lateral excursion several times as a practice run.

But it was impossible to check every single patch with the microscope.
The master was never played, but the initial test cut usually was. If
no problems were encountered with say an SME 3009 and Shure V15
then the master went to the factory.

Are there tracking problems with the Hendrix, Don?

Iain

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:10:13 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

The worst I've encountered is the very audible signal from the adjacent turn
so to speak.
I wonder what your sample had been played on though.
Brian

Just my own system and I have always been careful. I have a few vinyl
LPs that start loudly, and the opening chord is distinctly audible one
revolution before the actual start.

d

I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped
an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records
1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two
adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other:

http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg

Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity?

I had a friend with a Bee Gees record. On the first song, there was a
very audible pre-echo of the opening moments (it was something very
loud, "Tragedy" perhaps).

I never really investigated it. I presume it must have been print-though
from a badly stored tape, but I guess it could have been a very
badly-cut record.

Daniele

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:12:22 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

A lot of the problems with transients though is resonances in the system
between the mass of the arm and the compliance of the cartridge.
Brian

This isn't a transient, just a large excursion that happened to meet
another coming the other way on the next groove.

d

"D.M. Procida" wrote in
message
...
I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped
an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records
1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two
adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other:

http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg

Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity?

I had a friend with a Bee Gees record. On the first song, there was a
very audible pre-echo of the opening moments (it was something very
loud, "Tragedy" perhaps).

I never really investigated it. I presume it must have been print-though
from a badly stored tape, but I guess it could have been a very
badly-cut record.

Pre-echo can be either - tape or disc. Master tapes were usually
wound and stored tail out to prevent print through caused by storage.
At Decca, we tried to avoid winding by using forward or reverse
play as this gave less winding tension on the reel, and reduced printing.

Iain

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:17:45 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


Don Pearce wrote in message news:4992beba.108434515@localhost...
I was interested in how heavily modulated vinyl could be, so I popped
an old record (Long Hot Summer Night, Jimi Hendrix, Track Records
1968) under the microscope for a look. And what did I find? Two
adjacent grooves clearly broken into each other:

http://81.174.169.10/odds/grooves.jpg

Was this a really common back then, or is this kind of thing a rarity?


Neither rare nor common.
It was normal practice to examine heavily modulated passages
under ther microscope after cutting both the test and the final
master. Many cutting engineers used to also test cut loud segments
with excessive lateral excursion several times as a practice run.

But it was impossible to check every single patch with the microscope.
The master was never played, but the initial test cut usually was. If
no problems were encountered with say an SME 3009 and Shure V15
then the master went to the factory.

Are there tracking problems with the Hendrix, Don?

Iain



No, not at all. I was just feeling a bit bored and curious. I thought
that even in '68 there was some automation that predicted amplitude
and widened the pitch a little.

d
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com