On Tue, 5 May 2009 14:31:40 +0300, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Sometimes written. Mostly performed. In live performance,
"professional" sound operators are frequently clueless with anything
except rock music, and sometimes even then. Sad, but true, even at
good-class venues and theatres, I don't do pub gigs :-)

You need to strike up a relationship with a good concert
mixer - someone who is interested in your kind of music.

Yes, in an ideal world.... :-)

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

My constant plea to sound professionals is "turn it down" whether it's
overall level at a live gig or monitor levels at a recording.

I agree about live gigs, and in many cinemas also.

Cinema sound levels are, in theory at least, set by the studio, not the
cinema. A cinema's sound system is calibrated to a particular SPL, so if the
film is played at the recommended setting of the volume control then the SPL
heard in the cinema should be the same as that heard by the sound mixers
during dubbing.

David.

"Iain Churches" wrote


Back in the 1970s, my brother bought a band new
Premier (British made) vibraphone complete with cases.
It cost £100. It's value now is £3 500.


Just about everything that was well made from 'back then' is worth good
money to someone these days! My recent *find* is a copy of 'Hey Jude' I
didn't know I had (it wuz tucked inside another 'gatefold' Beatles album) -
one just like it went for over a hundred quid on eBay very recently!!

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

My constant plea to sound professionals is "turn it down" whether it's
overall level at a live gig or monitor levels at a recording.

I agree about live gigs, and in many cinemas also.

Cinema sound levels are, in theory at least, set by the studio, not the
cinema. A cinema's sound system is calibrated to a particular SPL, so if
the film is played at the recommended setting of the volume control then
the SPL heard in the cinema should be the same as that heard by the sound
mixers during dubbing.


Having done quite a lot of music editing/mixing for corporate
film/video productions, I was invited to take part in a
film mixing course for SDDS (Sony Digital DynamicSound)
The fixed control room levels were pretty scary!

The arrangement of channels was similar to 70mm mag.
For SDDS. Digital sound information was recorded on
the outer edges of the 35mm film print. There were up to
8 independent channels of sound: 5 at the front, 2 surround
channels and a sub-bass channel.

The format weas discontinued, I have long since mis-laid
the course diploma but I do still have the huge blue-glazed
coffee mug with SDDS in gold leaf on the side:-))

Iain

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 May 2009 14:31:40 +0300, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Sometimes written. Mostly performed. In live performance,
"professional" sound operators are frequently clueless with anything
except rock music, and sometimes even then. Sad, but true, even at
good-class venues and theatres, I don't do pub gigs :-)

You need to strike up a relationship with a good concert
mixer - someone who is interested in your kind of music.

Yes, in an ideal world.... :-)


Hi Laurence

Make the effort:-)
Such a person can greatly enhance the
audience's perception of your performance.


Iain

You know it ain't easy (John Lennon)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The idea is to hear the sound of the instrument, straight from the
pickup as I stated previously.

Using a DI doesn't give the sound of the instrument, though, Iain.

The sound from the pickup, without any possible additional
colouration from amp, and mic is what I suggested you evaluate.
Your valiant attempts at blowing smoke did not go un-noticed:-)).

Is stating that your 'test' is not of this world so pointless blowing
smoke, Iain? You might as well use an oscillator. A bass guitar simply
isn't a musical instrument *without* the addition of electronics, so
saying one speaker or another makes its electrical output 'sound better'
only has relevance to that individual bass gutter. So a total red herring
to this discussion. But then you have red herring coming out of every
sleeve. Tommy Cooper would have been proud of you...

I simply outlined to you the Rickenbacker/DI experiment which
many of us have seen and heard done with a number of speakers
at various demos and workshop session.

One is simply comparing two relatively clean low notes B1, without
the added complication of amp, instrument speaker and microphone.
This is a very good way to show up the shortcomings of the ESL.
I fully understand your relauctance to accept this.

It's all pretty academic really, as you almost
certainly will not bother to make the comparison I described:-)

It is indeed.

Do the test with the ESL and then tell me your thoughts.

BTW Dave. In the ten years or so that I have been following
this NG, I must have read hundreds of your posts - but not one
AFAICR has ever mentioned music. What do you listen to?

I try and keep vaguely on topic, Iain. This is a group for discussing
*audio*.

And what is the objective of audio if not listening to music?
The two topics are tightly interwoven..

So maybe it *is* Match of the Day and re-runs of
The Archers as one wag suggested? :-))

Iain

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Is stating that your 'test' is not of this world so pointless blowing
smoke, Iain? You might as well use an oscillator. A bass guitar simply
isn't a musical instrument *without* the addition of electronics, so
saying one speaker or another makes its electrical output 'sound
better' only has relevance to that individual bass gutter. So a total
red herring to this discussion. But then you have red herring coming
out of every sleeve. Tommy Cooper would have been proud of you...

I simply outlined to you the Rickenbacker/DI experiment which
many of us have seen and heard done with a number of speakers
at various demos and workshop session.

Why not use a test set of some description? Just as much relevance to real
world audio.

One is simply comparing two relatively clean low notes B1, without
the added complication of amp, instrument speaker and microphone.
This is a very good way to show up the shortcomings of the ESL.
I fully understand your relauctance to accept this.

And other tests to show up the shortcomings of your 'pet' speaker?

It's all pretty academic really, as you almost
certainly will not bother to make the comparison I described:-)

It is indeed.

Do the test with the ESL and then tell me your thoughts.

BTW Dave. In the ten years or so that I have been following
this NG, I must have read hundreds of your posts - but not one
AFAICR has ever mentioned music. What do you listen to?

I try and keep vaguely on topic, Iain. This is a group for discussing
*audio*.

And what is the objective of audio if not listening to music?
The two topics are tightly interwoven..

But you asked about my choice of music. Nothing to do with audio. Doubt
you'd see the difference, though.

So maybe it *is* Match of the Day and re-runs of
The Archers as one wag suggested? :-))

They too include audio. And will likely sound rather better on an ESL...

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The format weas discontinued, I have long since mis-laid
the course diploma but I do still have the huge blue-glazed
coffee mug with SDDS in gold leaf on the side:-))

Do you have a Blue Peter badge too, Iain?

--
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Jim Lesurf" wrote


I've stopped going to 'shows' at our local theatre. They have a 'Bose'
'Sound Reinforcement' system.


So does the Royal Albert Hall, although I don't know if it's 'Bose'. (Does
it particularly matter if it's 'Bose'?)

When I was last there a few years ago now, I told my other half to close her
eyes and follow the sound which she did - I watched as her head lifted 'till
she was lined up on the ring of speakers in the ceiling!

Which is why I don't really care about 'live' any more and why I laugh when
I see all the 'accuracy' and 'fidelity' arguments!!

On Wed, 6 May 2009 10:06:22 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

I've stopped going to 'shows' at our local theatre. They have a 'Bose'
'Sound Reinforcement' system.

But you can enjoy a performance through speakers in your front room?
Even one originating from imperfect media - cassette , vinyl or CD (in
ascending level of transparency)?


So does the Royal Albert Hall, although I don't know if it's 'Bose'. (Does
it particularly matter if it's 'Bose'?)

When I was last there a few years ago now, I told my other half to close her
eyes and follow the sound which she did - I watched as her head lifted 'till
she was lined up on the ring of speakers in the ceiling!

Which is why I don't really care about 'live' any more and why I laugh when
I see all the 'accuracy' and 'fidelity' arguments!!

Are you old enough to remember the Albert Hall before they started
messing with the acoustics?