Keith G wrote:

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
I live in Eaton Ford; the A1 is only a couple of minutes away and
this happens this morning:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8031530.stm


I hope all you cyclists out there take heed - it was 8:30 on a major
dual carriageway on a *Sunday* morning! WTF could have happened -
the traffic was so dense at that time or the car driver was asleep or
summat...???



Not wanting to take anything from a sad death, but I have never
understood why cyclists are allowed to race on public roads, no other
form of road user can without breaking the law.



I agree and other slow traffic like horses in narrow lanes are a
nuisance these days, but the roads don't belong only to reps and lorry
drivers, especially at 8:30 on a Bank Holiday Sunday morning! Death is a
severe penalty for someone else's incompetence (or worse) - that cyclist
was someone's son and may well have been a husband and father!

Yes, and as I said its tragic (well its not, but its sad at least) but
the son or father chose to race on open public roads, if I did this on a
motorcycle (as I did on that road in my younger days) it would have been
put down to another stupid biker going too fast and loosing control. And
if the police had seen me doing it, I would have been pulled over.
Whereas there are flocks of people head down, going as fast as they can,
expecting other folk to keep out of their way.

There is a difference, horse riders (and other folk with animals) if
properly controlled can expect other users of the road to treat them
with care. As can cyclists if they are riding with awareness of their
surroundings and vulnerability. Its not about nuisance its about taking
responsibility.

--
Nick

"Nick Gorham" wrote


Yes, and as I said its tragic (well its not, but its sad at least) but the
son or father chose to race on open public roads, if I did this on a
motorcycle (as I did on that road in my younger days) it would have been
put down to another stupid biker going too fast and loosing control. And
if the police had seen me doing it, I would have been pulled over. Whereas
there are flocks of people head down, going as fast as they can, expecting
other folk to keep out of their way.


There are no 'flocks' of people - these 'time trials' are single riders
spaced out by considerable distances, usually....



There is a difference, horse riders (and other folk with animals) if
properly controlled can expect other users of the road to treat them with
care. As can cyclists if they are riding with awareness of their
surroundings and vulnerability. Its not about nuisance its about taking
responsibility.


....and if some clown in a car (?) can't get past a single bike without
killing the rider it's a very poor show - the responsibilty is with the car
driver, IMO.

Keith G wrote:

"Nick Gorham" wrote


Yes, and as I said its tragic (well its not, but its sad at least) but
the son or father chose to race on open public roads, if I did this on
a motorcycle (as I did on that road in my younger days) it would have
been put down to another stupid biker going too fast and loosing
control. And if the police had seen me doing it, I would have been
pulled over. Whereas there are flocks of people head down, going as
fast as they can, expecting other folk to keep out of their way.


There are no 'flocks' of people - these 'time trials' are single riders
spaced out by considerable distances, usually....

But the fact remains that if any other road users main focus was going
as fast as possible, then they would be judged to be at fault.




There is a difference, horse riders (and other folk with animals) if
properly controlled can expect other users of the road to treat them
with care. As can cyclists if they are riding with awareness of their
surroundings and vulnerability. Its not about nuisance its about
taking responsibility.


...and if some clown in a car (?) can't get past a single bike without
killing the rider it's a very poor show - the responsibilty is with the
car driver, IMO.

Well, as I (and I suspect you) don't know the details of this incident I
can't say. But I know that if when I was riding motorbikes I expected
other road users to look out for my safety, I would not be here now. I
drive a car at the moment, and nothing has changed. Still my
responsibility to look out for my own safety when using a shared road.

Just for a moment consider the "clown" in the car, for all you know
Keith he did nothing wrong, the bike could have fallen in front of him,
so now he (or she) has the moment of killing someone on their hands.
More than one potential victim in this.

--
nick

"Nick Gorham" wrote


Well, as I (and I suspect you) don't know the details of this incident I
can't say. But I know that if when I was riding motorbikes I expected
other road users to look out for my safety, I would not be here now. I
drive a car at the moment, and nothing has changed. Still my
responsibility to look out for my own safety when using a shared road.

Just for a moment consider the "clown" in the car, for all you know Keith
he did nothing wrong, the bike could have fallen in front of him, so now
he (or she) has the moment of killing someone on their hands. More than
one potential victim in this.


You're right that we don't know the details but this guy doesn't get back
home from some legitimate Sunday morning leisure activity is a tragedy in my
book. They do put signs out and, in all the years I've seen it going on,
this is the first time I've heard of any incident.

Keith G wrote:

"Nick Gorham" wrote


Well, as I (and I suspect you) don't know the details of this incident
I can't say. But I know that if when I was riding motorbikes I
expected other road users to look out for my safety, I would not be
here now. I drive a car at the moment, and nothing has changed. Still
my responsibility to look out for my own safety when using a shared road.

Just for a moment consider the "clown" in the car, for all you know
Keith he did nothing wrong, the bike could have fallen in front of
him, so now he (or she) has the moment of killing someone on their
hands. More than one potential victim in this.


You're right that we don't know the details but this guy doesn't get
back home from some legitimate Sunday morning leisure activity is a
tragedy in my book. They do put signs out and, in all the years I've
seen it going on, this is the first time I've heard of any incident.

Well, having signs is a good thing, more than I have ever seen them do
around here.

--
Nick

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


You're right that we don't know the details but this guy doesn't get back
home from some legitimate Sunday morning leisure activity is a tragedy in
my book. They do put signs out and, in all the years I've seen it going
on, this is the first time I've heard of any incident.

Well, having signs is a good thing, more than I have ever seen them do
around here.


These speed trials are an annual event here, if not 2 or 3 times a year -
they take place on the A1 which presents not much more than a lone cyclist
'going for it' on a wide two lane dual carriageway to other road users,
which I would have thought was easy enough for anyone to avoid, especially
if a) they weren't too close to the cyclist and b) they were experienced
enough a driver to know that 'anything can happen' with bikes, trailer,
caravans.

They also take place in the lanes down near Upper Caldicote, if you know
and/or remember the area - here, there is much more presence; there are more
bikes, there are signs out and organisers and presumably timekeepers stand
on corners and roundabouts. It's easier to be more aware there's an 'event'
but the bikes are harder to pass and the situation needs a little more care.

On Mon, 4 May 2009 00:56:33 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

You're right that we don't know the details

So shall we discuss the possibilities, but refrain from judging until
we DO know them? D'oh!



but this guy doesn't get back
home from some legitimate Sunday morning leisure activity is a tragedy in my
book. They do put signs out and, in all the years I've seen it going on,
this is the first time I've heard of any incident.

In article , Laurence Payne
scribeth thus
On Mon, 4 May 2009 00:56:33 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

You're right that we don't know the details

So shall we discuss the possibilities, but refrain from judging until
we DO know them? D'oh!



You should see all the speculation on UK railway when theres even the
slightest accident or event, and Everyone and his mutter wants to know
the number of the Loco or E/DMU involved;!...
--
Tony Sayer

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Nick Gorham" wrote


Well, as I (and I suspect you) don't know the details of this incident I
can't say. But I know that if when I was riding motorbikes I expected
other road users to look out for my safety, I would not be here now. I
drive a car at the moment, and nothing has changed. Still my
responsibility to look out for my own safety when using a shared road.

Just for a moment consider the "clown" in the car, for all you know Keith
he did nothing wrong, the bike could have fallen in front of him, so now
he (or she) has the moment of killing someone on their hands. More than
one potential victim in this.


You're right that we don't know the details but this guy doesn't get back
home from some legitimate Sunday morning leisure activity is a tragedy in
my book. They do put signs out and, in all the years I've seen it going
on, this is the first time I've heard of any incident.

I live not far from the A14 in Suffolk, and there's a fair bit of this
time-trialling going on there. Although they do put out signs, and they do
space the riders a fair bit apart, it still strikes me as a thoroughly
dangerous thing to do on a fast public road. The worse part is when a
cyclist passes a junction, which, for a car, takes a second or two to pass,
but for the biker, takes a fair bit longer. Cars turning off have to cut in
before or after cyclists and there have been a few accidents. The idea of
mixing slow vulnerable cyclists with fast invulnerable cars seems crazy.
Cyclists and horses aren't allowed on motorways, and there's precious little
difference between a motorway and a fast dual carriageway like the A1 or
A14.

I never see any cyclists on the A14 except for the time-triallers around
Bank Holidays as it's far too dangerous at any other time.

S.


--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"Serge Auckland" wrote

I live not far from the A14 in Suffolk, and there's a fair bit of this
time-trialling going on there. Although they do put out signs, and they do
space the riders a fair bit apart, it still strikes me as a thoroughly
dangerous thing to do on a fast public road. The worse part is when a
cyclist passes a junction, which, for a car, takes a second or two to
pass, but for the biker, takes a fair bit longer. Cars turning off have to
cut in before or after cyclists and there have been a few accidents. The
idea of mixing slow vulnerable cyclists with fast invulnerable cars seems
crazy. Cyclists and horses aren't allowed on motorways, and there's
precious little difference between a motorway and a fast dual carriageway
like the A1 or A14.

I never see any cyclists on the A14 except for the time-triallers around
Bank Holidays as it's far too dangerous at any other time.


Hi Serge!

My original post was really small talk to say 'bikers watch out' and I
didn't expect it to go any where. All I will say is, when other countries
can have bulls in the streets, Mille Miglias, other car and bike Rallies,
Tours De France, various religious festivals and carnivals and feck nose
what else, it's a *poor old show* when a few Bank Holdiay Bike Enthusiasts
can't have use of some long, fast tarmac for a few hours in this ********,
selfish PC/H&S country without paying the ultimate price for it.

(And, before anyone mentions it - it's almost a *certainty* they pay their
own road tax on other vehicles!)

If anything, I think much more effort should be made; the signs should be
bigger and there should be a police presence - and I'm not even a cyclist!!

They could take a leaf out of the IOM's book and scrub some of the *grey*
away for a few hours!!