"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a4394d0.1075833718@localhost...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:07:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
Although I feel most of the report including this proposal comes from
cloud
cuckoo land, I've signed anyway as there are a lot of stupid people
about
and the colour of the Government is almost certain to alter next year.

I simply cannot imagine the commercial interests wanting to lose the fm
outlets at the moment with such a muddled and maybe if idea of what is
to
be in its place. I know a lot of people still listen to AM due to poor
reception of both dab and fm in cars and for news and sport who needs
either?

What they do not want, despite some industry spokesman who like most
government advisers know sod all about the subject, is that they don't
want to have to carry on transmitting on FM and DAB as its bloody
expensive especially with a monopoly transmission provider (Arqiva) who
have them by the short and curlies, let alone any other issues...

Horses for courses. I mean who will the government sell such relatively
small frequency ranges to for goodness sake?


God alone knows ....


What stops them farming it out entirely to the private sector (like
everything else) - would that be doable? Would there be any takers?


The problem is finding the right application for it. Stuff around
100MHz is absolutely ideal for broadcasting. It gets in and out of
nooks and crannies nicely, it is dead easy to produce huge amounts of
power, and the horizon shuts it off very cleanly, allowing regional
broadcasting.

Anything less than that would really be to waste a huge asset.

In fact an ideal use would be a National FM service. I wonder if they
have thought of that?


I was thinking more of privatised and licenced regional services along the
lines of the early American broadcasting stations - run by 'locals' with
more 'local flavour' and relevancy for the inevitable advertising.

There's some interesting observations here, if nothing really new:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=994279

Interesting to see the early mention of pirate stations; it's been in my
mind for a while that they would be in clover if/when the 'switch off'
happened - to mop up some of the 'newly-redundant FM hardware', if nothing
else!

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:53:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a4394d0.1075833718@localhost...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:07:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
Although I feel most of the report including this proposal comes from
cloud
cuckoo land, I've signed anyway as there are a lot of stupid people
about
and the colour of the Government is almost certain to alter next year.

I simply cannot imagine the commercial interests wanting to lose the fm
outlets at the moment with such a muddled and maybe if idea of what is
to
be in its place. I know a lot of people still listen to AM due to poor
reception of both dab and fm in cars and for news and sport who needs
either?

What they do not want, despite some industry spokesman who like most
government advisers know sod all about the subject, is that they don't
want to have to carry on transmitting on FM and DAB as its bloody
expensive especially with a monopoly transmission provider (Arqiva) who
have them by the short and curlies, let alone any other issues...

Horses for courses. I mean who will the government sell such relatively
small frequency ranges to for goodness sake?


God alone knows ....


What stops them farming it out entirely to the private sector (like
everything else) - would that be doable? Would there be any takers?


The problem is finding the right application for it. Stuff around
100MHz is absolutely ideal for broadcasting. It gets in and out of
nooks and crannies nicely, it is dead easy to produce huge amounts of
power, and the horizon shuts it off very cleanly, allowing regional
broadcasting.

Anything less than that would really be to waste a huge asset.

In fact an ideal use would be a National FM service. I wonder if they
have thought of that?


I was thinking more of privatised and licenced regional services along the
lines of the early American broadcasting stations - run by 'locals' with
more 'local flavour' and relevancy for the inevitable advertising.

There's some interesting observations here, if nothing really new:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=994279

Interesting to see the early mention of pirate stations; it's been in my
mind for a while that they would be in clover if/when the 'switch off'
happened - to mop up some of the 'newly-redundant FM hardware', if nothing
else!



I wonder if they can survive in anything other than legacy mode once
the mainstream is entirely digital. At first there will be plenty of
old FM radios to give them an audience (although you might argue that
the typical current FM radio owner won't be their target audience),
but they will die out as they are no longer made. I'm not sure I would
want to start a new service based on obsolete technology.

And of course they couldn't use digital, because there aren't any
digital radios that cover this band - and won't be for a national
niche. It has to be an international market.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a449ded.1078166234@localhost...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:53:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a4394d0.1075833718@localhost...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:07:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
Gaff
scribeth thus
Although I feel most of the report including this proposal comes from
cloud
cuckoo land, I've signed anyway as there are a lot of stupid people
about
and the colour of the Government is almost certain to alter next year.

I simply cannot imagine the commercial interests wanting to lose the
fm
outlets at the moment with such a muddled and maybe if idea of what
is
to
be in its place. I know a lot of people still listen to AM due to poor
reception of both dab and fm in cars and for news and sport who needs
either?

What they do not want, despite some industry spokesman who like most
government advisers know sod all about the subject, is that they don't
want to have to carry on transmitting on FM and DAB as its bloody
expensive especially with a monopoly transmission provider (Arqiva)
who
have them by the short and curlies, let alone any other issues...

Horses for courses. I mean who will the government sell such
relatively
small frequency ranges to for goodness sake?


God alone knows ....


What stops them farming it out entirely to the private sector (like
everything else) - would that be doable? Would there be any takers?


The problem is finding the right application for it. Stuff around
100MHz is absolutely ideal for broadcasting. It gets in and out of
nooks and crannies nicely, it is dead easy to produce huge amounts of
power, and the horizon shuts it off very cleanly, allowing regional
broadcasting.

Anything less than that would really be to waste a huge asset.

In fact an ideal use would be a National FM service. I wonder if they
have thought of that?


I was thinking more of privatised and licenced regional services along the
lines of the early American broadcasting stations - run by 'locals' with
more 'local flavour' and relevancy for the inevitable advertising.

There's some interesting observations here, if nothing really new:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=994279

Interesting to see the early mention of pirate stations; it's been in my
mind for a while that they would be in clover if/when the 'switch off'
happened - to mop up some of the 'newly-redundant FM hardware', if nothing
else!



I wonder if they can survive in anything other than legacy mode once
the mainstream is entirely digital. At first there will be plenty of
old FM radios to give them an audience (although you might argue that
the typical current FM radio owner won't be their target audience),
but they will die out as they are no longer made. I'm not sure I would
want to start a new service based on obsolete technology.


I wasn't thinking so much of the receivers - although there'll be mountains
of them in the landfill come the day, especially when you factor in all the
car radios, but also of the transmitting gear. I don't know what's involved
to broadcast 'to the horizon' as you say, but what with local businesses
trying to compete with the Internet and the 'ethnic diversity' of certain
regions, I still see at least decades of usefulness in a network of truly
'local FM' stations.

Or am I just whistling in the breeze?

Reminds me that I bought a block of Chiltern Radio shares when they were
floated (we had an office in Luton at the time) but sold them at a small
profit a year later when I realised I didn't want to get into all that. I
wonder what they would be worth now? - A fraction of, I suspect, as I gather
the station has been ruined!

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:25:39 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:




I wonder if they can survive in anything other than legacy mode once
the mainstream is entirely digital. At first there will be plenty of
old FM radios to give them an audience (although you might argue that
the typical current FM radio owner won't be their target audience),
but they will die out as they are no longer made. I'm not sure I would
want to start a new service based on obsolete technology.


I wasn't thinking so much of the receivers - although there'll be mountains
of them in the landfill come the day, especially when you factor in all the
car radios, but also of the transmitting gear. I don't know what's involved
to broadcast 'to the horizon' as you say, but what with local businesses
trying to compete with the Internet and the 'ethnic diversity' of certain
regions, I still see at least decades of usefulness in a network of truly
'local FM' stations.

Or am I just whistling in the breeze?

Reminds me that I bought a block of Chiltern Radio shares when they were
floated (we had an office in Luton at the time) but sold them at a small
profit a year later when I realised I didn't want to get into all that. I
wonder what they would be worth now? - A fraction of, I suspect, as I gather
the station has been ruined!



Unfortunately local radio tends to descend pretty rapidly into either
a jukebox or the direst of phone-ins - the only options they can ever
afford. You got out of that the best way you could, I think.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a47a781.1080618593@localhost...

Unfortunately local radio tends to descend pretty rapidly into either
a jukebox or the direst of phone-ins - the only options they can ever
afford. You got out of that the best way you could, I think.


I agree, the local ILR stations just provide an endless barrage of heavily
compressed pop interspersed with mindless chatter and tedious ads. Whilst
the BBC local is just so parochial.

Only national radio can have audience figures large enough to justify the
costs of producing quality radio. I know a lot of people like to knock the
BBC, but as far as I can see it's the only organisation with the will and
recourses to do that

David.

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:14:22 +0100, "David Looser"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a47a781.1080618593@localhost...

Unfortunately local radio tends to descend pretty rapidly into either
a jukebox or the direst of phone-ins - the only options they can ever
afford. You got out of that the best way you could, I think.


I agree, the local ILR stations just provide an endless barrage of heavily
compressed pop interspersed with mindless chatter and tedious ads. Whilst
the BBC local is just so parochial.

Only national radio can have audience figures large enough to justify the
costs of producing quality radio. I know a lot of people like to knock the
BBC, but as far as I can see it's the only organisation with the will and
recourses to do that


Yes - on DAB right now only the BBC bouquet is even remotely
listenable; the rest is just entropy.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a47a781.1080618593@localhost...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:25:39 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:




I wonder if they can survive in anything other than legacy mode once
the mainstream is entirely digital. At first there will be plenty of
old FM radios to give them an audience (although you might argue that
the typical current FM radio owner won't be their target audience),
but they will die out as they are no longer made. I'm not sure I would
want to start a new service based on obsolete technology.


I wasn't thinking so much of the receivers - although there'll be
mountains
of them in the landfill come the day, especially when you factor in all
the
car radios, but also of the transmitting gear. I don't know what's
involved
to broadcast 'to the horizon' as you say, but what with local businesses
trying to compete with the Internet and the 'ethnic diversity' of certain
regions, I still see at least decades of usefulness in a network of truly
'local FM' stations.

Or am I just whistling in the breeze?

Reminds me that I bought a block of Chiltern Radio shares when they were
floated (we had an office in Luton at the time) but sold them at a small
profit a year later when I realised I didn't want to get into all that. I
wonder what they would be worth now? - A fraction of, I suspect, as I
gather
the station has been ruined!



Unfortunately local radio tends to descend pretty rapidly into either
a jukebox or the direst of phone-ins - the only options they can ever
afford. You got out of that the best way you could, I think.

d

That may be true of local Commercial radio, but you're forgetting about
Community Radio. These stations are staffed largely by volunteers, with
paid employees kept to a minimum, possibly no more than one or two. They are
often Registered Charities, and can get things done that would be impossible
to a Commercial station that would have to pay for the programme content,
whether through salaries or by purchase from independent producers.

My own Hospital Radio station has just been awarded a Community license by
Ofcom, and we see CR being what Local Commercial Radio should have been,
i.e. local, producing programmes of local interest by and for locals, not
networked jukeboxes. Community Radio is relatively new, and perhaps it will
take time to settle down, but if any CR becomes a jukebox or just a phone-in
channel for whingers, then they won't meet their Promise of Performance, and
Ofcom will shut them down.

S.

www.radiowestsuffolk.co.uk

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:15:08 +0100, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a47a781.1080618593@localhost...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:25:39 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:




I wonder if they can survive in anything other than legacy mode once
the mainstream is entirely digital. At first there will be plenty of
old FM radios to give them an audience (although you might argue that
the typical current FM radio owner won't be their target audience),
but they will die out as they are no longer made. I'm not sure I would
want to start a new service based on obsolete technology.


I wasn't thinking so much of the receivers - although there'll be
mountains
of them in the landfill come the day, especially when you factor in all
the
car radios, but also of the transmitting gear. I don't know what's
involved
to broadcast 'to the horizon' as you say, but what with local businesses
trying to compete with the Internet and the 'ethnic diversity' of certain
regions, I still see at least decades of usefulness in a network of truly
'local FM' stations.

Or am I just whistling in the breeze?

Reminds me that I bought a block of Chiltern Radio shares when they were
floated (we had an office in Luton at the time) but sold them at a small
profit a year later when I realised I didn't want to get into all that. I
wonder what they would be worth now? - A fraction of, I suspect, as I
gather
the station has been ruined!



Unfortunately local radio tends to descend pretty rapidly into either
a jukebox or the direst of phone-ins - the only options they can ever
afford. You got out of that the best way you could, I think.

d

That may be true of local Commercial radio, but you're forgetting about
Community Radio. These stations are staffed largely by volunteers, with
paid employees kept to a minimum, possibly no more than one or two. They are
often Registered Charities, and can get things done that would be impossible
to a Commercial station that would have to pay for the programme content,
whether through salaries or by purchase from independent producers.


I'm sure, but such systems can really only work when they sit amongst
real, paying systems. Ofcom is not going to reserve spectrum for a
non-paying medium - the bean counters run the show these days.

My own Hospital Radio station has just been awarded a Community license by
Ofcom, and we see CR being what Local Commercial Radio should have been,
i.e. local, producing programmes of local interest by and for locals, not
networked jukeboxes. Community Radio is relatively new, and perhaps it will
take time to settle down, but if any CR becomes a jukebox or just a phone-in
channel for whingers, then they won't meet their Promise of Performance, and
Ofcom will shut them down.

S.

www.radiowestsuffolk.co.uk

People will have to complain loud and long before Ofcom shut a station
down. They take no executive action unbidden.

d

In article ,
Serge Auckland wrote:
Unfortunately local radio tends to descend pretty rapidly into either
a jukebox or the direst of phone-ins - the only options they can ever
afford. You got out of that the best way you could, I think.

d

That may be true of local Commercial radio, but you're forgetting about
Community Radio. These stations are staffed largely by volunteers, with
paid employees kept to a minimum, possibly no more than one or two.
They are often Registered Charities, and can get things done that would
be impossible to a Commercial station that would have to pay for the
programme content, whether through salaries or by purchase from
independent producers.

My own Hospital Radio station has just been awarded a Community license
by Ofcom, and we see CR being what Local Commercial Radio should have
been, i.e. local, producing programmes of local interest by and for
locals, not networked jukeboxes. Community Radio is relatively new, and
perhaps it will take time to settle down, but if any CR becomes a
jukebox or just a phone-in channel for whingers, then they won't meet
their Promise of Performance, and Ofcom will shut them down.

Not knocking it - but just how large an audience does it get? And
volunteers are fine - until the supply dries up. As it will.

--
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Serge Auckland wrote:
Unfortunately local radio tends to descend pretty rapidly into either
a jukebox or the direst of phone-ins - the only options they can ever
afford. You got out of that the best way you could, I think.

d

That may be true of local Commercial radio, but you're forgetting about
Community Radio. These stations are staffed largely by volunteers, with
paid employees kept to a minimum, possibly no more than one or two.
They are often Registered Charities, and can get things done that would
be impossible to a Commercial station that would have to pay for the
programme content, whether through salaries or by purchase from
independent producers.

My own Hospital Radio station has just been awarded a Community license
by Ofcom, and we see CR being what Local Commercial Radio should have
been, i.e. local, producing programmes of local interest by and for
locals, not networked jukeboxes. Community Radio is relatively new, and
perhaps it will take time to settle down, but if any CR becomes a
jukebox or just a phone-in channel for whingers, then they won't meet
their Promise of Performance, and Ofcom will shut them down.

Not knocking it - but just how large an audience does it get? And
volunteers are fine - until the supply dries up. As it will.

--
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

We've been going for 35 years, producing 50 hours a week of live programming
with volunteers. Broadcasting on AM for the past 10 years to the local town,
although we can't acknowledge listeners outside the Hospital. That was the
motivation for applying to become the CR for Bury St Edmunds, as we have
more listeners in the town than in the Hospital. Our PoP states we'll be
increasing that to 100 hours per week within two years, and we're adding
volunteers pretty much as fast as we can train them. Time will of course
tell if that dries up, but we've not seen any sign of it.

The Govt have been making lots of noise about how they want to expand
Community Radio, to provide a proper local station now that all Commercial
stations are networked jukeboxes...remember when it was called Independent
Local Radio? Hardly Independent or Local any more.....

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com