"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote

But the OP went on to say that "we're just chewing over old bones here"
and, since this is an audio (not "HiFi") newsgroup


Really? Perhaps you might care to read the actual wording of the ukra
charter:

"uk.rec.audio is an unmoderated newsgroup. It is primarily a forum for
discussion of hi-fi equipment available in the UK, a place for independant
reviews and opinions on hi-fi, and an advice centre for those bitten by
the upgrade bug. It may include discussions on what hi-fi is trying to do
(accurately reproduce music? a 'live' acoustic?) and its development. It
is also a site for the private sale and exchange of used hi-fi
components."


Who reads charters? It's called uk.rec.*audio* and as far as I am concerned
audio means audio. If it was intended to be confined to narrowly defined
"HiFi" it should have been called uk.rec.hifi.


The sad truth is the 'enthusiasts' you mention have been driven out by
abuse from a small number (past and present) here and they have actually
moved on to becoming 'hifi/audio enthusiasts' who simply don't post (or
subscribe) here!


Are you talking about the fact that "HiFi" as a hobby has largely
disappeared? If so I cannot for the life of me see the relevance of what
anyone "here" may or may not have done. The simple fact is that just like
"Wireless" in the 1920s and Amateur Radio in the '50s and '60s "HiFi" as a
hobby has fallen out of fashion. Partly because modern electronics (not just
"digital") is so much less amenable to tinkering, but also because there are
so many other things these days for people to devote their time and money
too.

David.

I'd like to take issue with the last statement, or statements. I think many
people still strive for good sound. There are also still amateur radio
enthusiasts, and people who build electronic things as well. The trendiness
of whatever may be gone but the people still exist and so do the
aspirations.

The snag these days is that sounds are altered so much before you get your
hands not them that it can be a bit of a struggle.

Compressed audio and psycho- acoustics and lossy compression which can
sound OK are all in there and I guess just like we had the cassette will
never be hi fi, and digital sounds wrong, only vinyl is right will go on and
on for ever...
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote

But the OP went on to say that "we're just chewing over old bones here"
and, since this is an audio (not "HiFi") newsgroup


Really? Perhaps you might care to read the actual wording of the ukra
charter:

"uk.rec.audio is an unmoderated newsgroup. It is primarily a forum for
discussion of hi-fi equipment available in the UK, a place for
independant
reviews and opinions on hi-fi, and an advice centre for those bitten by
the upgrade bug. It may include discussions on what hi-fi is trying to do
(accurately reproduce music? a 'live' acoustic?) and its development. It
is also a site for the private sale and exchange of used hi-fi
components."


Who reads charters? It's called uk.rec.*audio* and as far as I am
concerned
audio means audio. If it was intended to be confined to narrowly defined
"HiFi" it should have been called uk.rec.hifi.


The sad truth is the 'enthusiasts' you mention have been driven out by
abuse from a small number (past and present) here and they have actually
moved on to becoming 'hifi/audio enthusiasts' who simply don't post (or
subscribe) here!


Are you talking about the fact that "HiFi" as a hobby has largely
disappeared? If so I cannot for the life of me see the relevance of what
anyone "here" may or may not have done. The simple fact is that just like
"Wireless" in the 1920s and Amateur Radio in the '50s and '60s "HiFi" as a
hobby has fallen out of fashion. Partly because modern electronics (not
just
"digital") is so much less amenable to tinkering, but also because there
are
so many other things these days for people to devote their time and money
too.

David.

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
m...

I'd like to take issue with the last statement, or statements. I think
many people still strive for good sound.

Some do, though how much "striving" does it take these days? Buy some
reasonably decent kit, install it in a reasonably competent way and the
sound you will get is going to be pretty much as good as your acoustic
environment will allow.

There are also still amateur radio enthusiasts,

Of course there are, but only a very tiny number comapred to the '50s and
'60s.

and people who build electronic things as well.

Indeed, but again only a very few compared to those that did so in the '50s,
'60s and '70s. It's a *lot* harder to do so these days unless you are
deliberately being "retro". Build your own portable mp3 player?, laptop?,
sat nav?, I don't think so. Of course you can still build your own valve
amplifier, but why bother?

The trendiness of whatever may be gone but the people still exist and so
do the aspirations.

What "aspirations"?

The snag these days is that sounds are altered so much before you get your
hands not them that it can be a bit of a struggle.

If you listen to "pop" maybe, but try listening to something worthwhile
instead!


Compressed audio and psycho- acoustics and lossy compression which can
sound OK are all in there and I guess just like we had the cassette will
never be hi fi, and digital sounds wrong, only vinyl is right will go on
and on for ever...

Vinyl was never "right". It always created all sorts of distortions. Try
reading up on the subject (or actually listening to the crap that comes off
a vinyl disc!).

David.

In article , David Looser
wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
m...

I'd like to take issue with the last statement, or statements. I think
many people still strive for good sound.

Some do, though how much "striving" does it take these days? Buy some
reasonably decent kit, install it in a reasonably competent way and the
sound you will get is going to be pretty much as good as your acoustic
environment will allow.

One of the biggest 'neglected areas' where real enthusiasm could make a
difference is to experiment and understand the effects of factors like room
acoustics, optimum speaker and listening position, etc. That is something
that the user can do which the makers can't do for him. And can make a very
big difference to the results.

Another is probably learning to solder and be able to make up your own
cables, or do minor mods, etc, to get a system that suit you.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:36:42 +0100, "David Looser"
wrote:


There are also still amateur radio enthusiasts,

Of course there are, but only a very tiny number comapred to the '50s and
'60s.

and people who build electronic things as well.

Indeed, but again only a very few compared to those that did so in the '50s,
'60s and '70s. It's a *lot* harder to do so these days unless you are
deliberately being "retro". Build your own portable mp3 player?, laptop?,
sat nav?, I don't think so. Of course you can still build your own valve
amplifier, but why bother?

Well, I "bothered". For cost/time considerations, my valve amplifier
was my summer holiday five years ago. I found that there is a great
deal of satisfaction to be gained by doing it yourself.

And I think it sounds great!

John

"John J Armstrong" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:36:42 +0100, "David Looser"
wrote:


There are also still amateur radio enthusiasts,

Of course there are, but only a very tiny number comapred to the '50s and
'60s.

and people who build electronic things as well.

Indeed, but again only a very few compared to those that did so in the
'50s,
'60s and '70s. It's a *lot* harder to do so these days unless you are
deliberately being "retro". Build your own portable mp3 player?, laptop?,
sat nav?, I don't think so. Of course you can still build your own valve
amplifier, but why bother?

Well, I "bothered".


So did I and my little 'Loftin-White' SET based on a 1929 design (I believe)
is still the best sounding/most satisfying amp I've got here - on my
dedicated 'valves, vinyl & horns' rig!

Feck! I just Googled 'loftin white set' to check the date and I get a
mention on the very first result!!

See second para he

http://www.atrj13.dsl.pipex.com/na-LW.htm

Fame at last!!

(Pity the link don't work any more - those pages are long gone! :-)



For cost/time considerations, my valve amplifier
was my summer holiday five years ago. I found that there is a great
deal of satisfaction to be gained by doing it yourself.


Oh yes....



And I think it sounds great!


And that's all that matters - fruit of *your* soldering iron and all that!!

;-)

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote

But the OP went on to say that "we're just chewing over old bones here"
and, since this is an audio (not "HiFi") newsgroup


Really? Perhaps you might care to read the actual wording of the ukra
charter:

"uk.rec.audio is an unmoderated newsgroup. It is primarily a forum for
discussion of hi-fi equipment available in the UK, a place for
independant
reviews and opinions on hi-fi, and an advice centre for those bitten by
the upgrade bug. It may include discussions on what hi-fi is trying to do
(accurately reproduce music? a 'live' acoustic?) and its development. It
is also a site for the private sale and exchange of used hi-fi
components."


Who reads charters? It's called uk.rec.*audio* and as far as I am
concerned
audio means audio. If it was intended to be confined to narrowly defined
"HiFi" it should have been called uk.rec.hifi.


Hey, there's already enough people got their own take on what this group is
supposed to be used for - why should you be any different?




The sad truth is the 'enthusiasts' you mention have been driven out by
abuse from a small number (past and present) here and they have actually
moved on to becoming 'hifi/audio enthusiasts' who simply don't post (or
subscribe) here!


Are you talking about the fact that "HiFi" as a hobby has largely
disappeared?


No, as far as this group's concerned, I'm saying it the *enthusiasts* who
have disappeared - there may still be a handful of 'techno' diehards here,
but let's face it, there's precious little *enthusiasm* in the tedious
'electronic knobwaving' threads we get from time to time or the more
frequent and utterly fascinating insights into Pucci's early career as a
microphone cable-coiler at the Beeb ('till they got rid if him)!!



If so I cannot for the life of me see the relevance of what
anyone "here" may or may not have done. The simple fact is that just like
"Wireless" in the 1920s and Amateur Radio in the '50s and '60s "HiFi" as a
hobby has fallen out of fashion.


I believe so, since the recent valves and vinyl 'Mexican Wave' sems to have
passed by - unless it's still alive and well elsewhere?

(Still meat and pertaters to me, I'm afraid.... :-)


Partly because modern electronics (not just
"digital") is so much less amenable to tinkering,


Yep!


but also because there are
so many other things these days for people to devote their time and money
too.


Yes indeed.

(He says, having just authorised an 883 to 1,200 cc engine upgrade on his
latest 'bike!!)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...



The sad truth is the 'enthusiasts' you mention

Not me, I didn't mention them. I was talking about HiFi enthusiasts in
general, not contributers to this ng.

have been driven out by
abuse from a small number (past and present) here and they have actually
moved on to becoming 'hifi/audio enthusiasts' who simply don't post (or
subscribe) here!


Are you talking about the fact that "HiFi" as a hobby has largely
disappeared?


No, as far as this group's concerned, I'm saying it the *enthusiasts* who
have disappeared - there may still be a handful of 'techno' diehards here,
but let's face it, there's precious little *enthusiasm* in the tedious
'electronic knobwaving' threads we get from time to time or the more
frequent and utterly fascinating insights into Pucci's early career as a
microphone cable-coiler at the Beeb ('till they got rid if him)!!

Well I know you have alleged (frequently) that "enthusiasts" have been
driven off this ng by abuse. But all I can see is that abuse comes from all
sides and is directed to all sides. And I really am not in the least
interested in your long-running tit-for-tat exchanges with Dave Plowman.



I believe so, since the recent valves and vinyl 'Mexican Wave' sems to
have passed by - unless it's still alive and well elsewhere?

(Still meat and pertaters to me, I'm afraid.... :-)

Fair enough. There is a continuing fascination with old technology in many
fields, hell I share it myself. Why else would I have a collection of TV
sets dating back to 1936?


David.

"David Looser" wrote


Well I know you have alleged (frequently) that "enthusiasts" have been
driven off this ng by abuse.


What I'm referring to is before your time here.



Why else would I have a collection of TV
sets dating back to 1936?



Beats tha crap outta me....