Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


I reached the above conclusions some decades ago. :-) In fact, I
went on to decide that many of the LPs I bought had to be returned for
a replacement due to problems like audibly off-center holes, warps,
and assorted swishes, clicks, etc. One had a label so far off center
that it was pressed into the grooves.


This country had it sodding tough after the war and mass production of
anything had it moments of variability - the trick was to push through
the difficulties, make the best of what was often a less than perfect
job and forge ahead....

A better 'trick' might have been to realise that they'd go out of business
and be replaced by 'foreign' manufacturers if they couldn't be bothered to
deliver the same level of quality and reliability at competing prices.

But some UK makers of LPs simply assumed that they owned the artists that
people wanted to hear and would put up with crapping manufacturing at the
prices the suits the makers. I recall that EMI refused to produce CDs for a
long time. The real reason probably being that they didn't want to invest
in being able to make them, or the QC required. Easier to try and get
people to go on buying ever more poorly made LPs at lower prices, so they
thought...

Yes, maybe we had it 'tough', I recall that well enough from the 1950s and
early 1960s. But so did the Japanese and many others. However their
managers and owners realised they had to actually invest and focus on
quality and reliability, etc. Our managers tended to resort to 'whip and
whistle' and cutting back on apprentices, etc, etc. Other countries
realised you had to work at quality and skill. Pleading with people to 'Buy
British' 'because we had it tough' wasn't likely to do the 'trick'.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I've heard a couple of quick snatches at various times from my pal's
Transcriptor (a Frank Sinatra clip, one of the times) and there was
absolutely nothing outstanding about the sound produced, but I can't
recall the other components in the system....

I've never been one to believe the 'magic' of any turntable started by
that ****** Tiefenbrun. Simply ask that it goes round at the correct
steady speed and doesn't introduce or allow any additional movement to the
disc. All of which just requires good basic engineering.


Which is why my decks look like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/L1000309.JPG

Actually the thin deck (in full working order) is really a 100% spares
inventory for the other. There's also a couple of sturdy but simple little
Technics decks with the all-important 'auto return' tonearms!

Here's a snap of my pal Pat's setup (then - I think it's gone now in favour
of a mini system) with his Transcriptors deck in place, to put it in the
context of the time:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...t%27sStuff.JPG

Spot the theme?

(Let's just say if they made a movie of him and his hifi, they'd probably
get Gert Frobe to play the part!! :-)

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Geoff Mackenzie" wrote in message
...

Wasn't there a turntable in the seventies which dispensed with the stylus
altogether, using instead some sort of optical pickup? Called the Finial,
or something like that.

You're off by about a decade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

"In 1983 Reis and fellow Stanford engineer Robert E. Stoddard founded Finial
Technology with $7 million in venture capital. A year later servo-control
expert Robert N. Stark joined the effort. A non-functioning mock-up of the
optical turntable was shown at the 1984 Consumer Electronics Show (CES),
generating much interest and a fair amount of mystery, since the patents had
not yet been granted and the details had to be kept secret. The first
working model, the Finial LT-1, was completed two years later and presented
at the 1986 CES."

Got reinvented and asked for more funding every six months or so.

"With over US$20 million in venture capital invested, Finial was faced with
a Hobson's choice: a selling price that was out-of-range for most consumers;
or gamble on going into mass production (thus lowering the selling price) at
the very moment the bottom was dropping out of the market (not to mention a
simultaneous recession). In late 1989, Finial's investors finally succumbed
to their bad timing and liquidated the firm, selling the patents to Japanese
turntable maker BSR, which became CTI Japan which in turn created ELP Japan
for continued development of the "super-audiophile" turntable. It finally
reached the market in 1997 as the ELP LT-1XA Laser Turntable with a list
price of US$20,500 (since reduced for subsequent models)."

IIRC only one escaped and was reviewed in HFN - worked reasonably well,
but was completely defeated by surface pops which came out at
ear-shattering levels.

"The prototype had an interesting flaw: it was so accurate that it played
every particle of dirt and dust on the record, rather than pushing them
aside as a conventional stylus would. "

I've seen one at CES and heard several transcriptions of LPs played with it,
and processed with computer software which can be pretty effective.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I've heard a couple of quick snatches at various times from my pal's
Transcriptor (a Frank Sinatra clip, one of the times) and there was
absolutely nothing outstanding about the sound produced, but I can't
recall the other components in the system....

I've never been one to believe the 'magic' of any turntable started by
that ****** Tiefenbrun. Simply ask that it goes round at the correct
steady speed and doesn't introduce or allow any additional movement to the
disc. All of which just requires good basic engineering.


Which is why my decks look like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/L1000309.JPG

Actually the thin deck (in full working order) is really a 100% spares
inventory for the other. There's also a couple of sturdy but simple little
Technics decks with the all-important 'auto return' tonearms!

Here's a snap of my pal Pat's setup (then - I think it's gone now in favour
of a mini system) with his Transcriptors deck in place, to put it in the
context of the time:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...t%27sStuff.JPG

Spot the theme?

Only theme I spot in *both* pics is turntables uncomfortably close to
speakers. ;-)

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I've heard a couple of quick snatches at various times from my pal's
Transcriptor (a Frank Sinatra clip, one of the times) and there was
absolutely nothing outstanding about the sound produced, but I can't
recall the other components in the system....

I've never been one to believe the 'magic' of any turntable started by
that ****** Tiefenbrun. Simply ask that it goes round at the correct
steady speed and doesn't introduce or allow any additional movement to
the
disc. All of which just requires good basic engineering.


Which is why my decks look like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/L1000309.JPG

Actually the thin deck (in full working order) is really a 100% spares
inventory for the other. There's also a couple of sturdy but simple
little
Technics decks with the all-important 'auto return' tonearms!

Here's a snap of my pal Pat's setup (then - I think it's gone now in
favour
of a mini system) with his Transcriptors deck in place, to put it in the
context of the time:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...t%27sStuff.JPG

Spot the theme?

Only theme I spot in *both* pics is turntables uncomfortably close to
speakers. ;-)


Not at all. Where would you have them - out in front of the speakers
somewhere? If it helps, the pic of my kit I posted the link to was an old
one already on my webpage - this is how the deck looks right now (drives the
Fidelios on the extreme right and left):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Distances.jpg

About 4' from each speaker (not that it's ever made any odds) - that's the
best I can do. Makes this sound (recorded with a single Oktava MK319 about
3' in front of the deck):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ingExtract.mp3

???

shrug

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Keith G" wrote

'S'rallan' is the most consistent manufacturer in the history of consumer
electronics, AFAIC - he has yet to make anything that a) would interest
me; b) I would buy....

(Odious little barrow boy....)


Your lack of interest in his products doesn't seem to have done Sir Alan any
harm. Here he is, rolling in dough, TV star and government supremo for
something or other (I forget).

David.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote

'S'rallan' is the most consistent manufacturer in the history of consumer
electronics, AFAIC - he has yet to make anything that a) would interest
me; b) I would buy....

(Odious little barrow boy....)


Your lack of interest in his products doesn't seem to have done Sir Alan
any harm. Here he is, rolling in dough, TV star and government supremo for
something or other (I forget).


So...???

Let me give you a clue how we think in my family: As a staunch/lifelong
Tory, my grandmother wasn't too thrilled when my grand-dad invited Clement
Attlee round for Sunday lunch on a couple of occasions (he was PM at the
time*) and also as a staunch Catholic, when the Pope of the day (long time
ago, now) decreed that RCs could eat meat on a Friday, she said words to the
effect 'WTF does he know? He's only the Pope!' and never did eat meat on a
Friday!

(OK not quite 'WTF' I believe, but you get the idea! :-)

Now, what were you saying about 'barrer boys'...??


*My mother was in the Red Cross with his daughter at the time and both he
and my grandfather were *serious spinach growers*!!

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Keith G" wrote

one already on my webpage - this is how the deck looks right now (drives
the Fidelios on the extreme right and left):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Distances.jpg



That is, when they don't look like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Plex2.jpg

:-)

Now that's about me done - this group has become simply too slow and too
damn boring to bother with!

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote

'S'rallan' is the most consistent manufacturer in the history of
consumer electronics, AFAIC - he has yet to make anything that a) would
interest me; b) I would buy....

(Odious little barrow boy....)


Your lack of interest in his products doesn't seem to have done Sir Alan
any harm. Here he is, rolling in dough, TV star and government supremo
for something or other (I forget).


So...???

Ah!, you didn't understand my point - never mind. I wasn't defending Sir
Alan, I was pointing out that he probably doesn't care what you think about
him.

Let me give you a clue how we think in my family: As a staunch/lifelong
Tory, my grandmother wasn't too thrilled when my grand-dad invited Clement
Attlee round for Sunday lunch on a couple of occasions (he was PM at the
time*) and also as a staunch Catholic, when the Pope of the day (long time
ago, now) decreed that RCs could eat meat on a Friday, she said words to
the effect 'WTF does he know? He's only the Pope!' and never did eat meat
on a Friday!

(OK not quite 'WTF' I believe, but you get the idea! :-)

Sorry?, what the hell does that pointless anecdote have to do with anything?

David.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
Sorry?, what the hell does that pointless anecdote have to do with
anything?

Remember he's a pal of Churches. Image is everything. ;-)

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Now that's about me done - this group has become simply too slow and too
damn boring to bother with!

Why have I got that deja vu feeling? ;-)

--
*TEAMWORK...means never having to take all the blame yourself *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

Don Pearce wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:55:58 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article 4aaa1236.6036468@localhost, Don Pearce
wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:58:20 +0100, Malcolm Lee
wrote:
On 2009-09-11, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Malcolm Lee
wrote:
BTW How flat was your LP when unsupported? Did you turn it over and
repeat the measurement? That seems like an obvious check for the
effects of the LP being inherently 'dished' by a small amount.
Yes, I measured both sides and averaged the droop.

Do bear in mind when measuring that the droop continues to increase for
quite some time. If you measure straight away, it will be an
under-measurement.
It occurs to me that, statistically, a simpler test might be useful. This
is simply to weigh each LP and note if the values change with year of
manufacture, etc. It won't allow for deliberately shaped discs, nor changes
in density or stiffness. But it would avoid the difficulty of trying to
allow for creep, departures from inherent flatness, etc, that can affect
measurements like the above.

That said, I'm not personally rushing to do any of this. :-) I rarely
bother with LPs these days. But I am interested in results people get.


Oh, this is all pretty well academic only. Vinyl is not for quality
any more - it is for nostalgia and dinner party bragging rights. It
doesn't actually matter how saggy it is. In fact the way this all
works, somebody will soon be claiming that it actually enhances the
sound.


I find that vinyl can sound pretty good.

Rob

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:36:35 GMT, Rob
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:55:58 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article 4aaa1236.6036468@localhost, Don Pearce
wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:58:20 +0100, Malcolm Lee
wrote:
On 2009-09-11, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Malcolm Lee
wrote:
BTW How flat was your LP when unsupported? Did you turn it over and
repeat the measurement? That seems like an obvious check for the
effects of the LP being inherently 'dished' by a small amount.
Yes, I measured both sides and averaged the droop.

Do bear in mind when measuring that the droop continues to increase for
quite some time. If you measure straight away, it will be an
under-measurement.
It occurs to me that, statistically, a simpler test might be useful. This
is simply to weigh each LP and note if the values change with year of
manufacture, etc. It won't allow for deliberately shaped discs, nor changes
in density or stiffness. But it would avoid the difficulty of trying to
allow for creep, departures from inherent flatness, etc, that can affect
measurements like the above.

That said, I'm not personally rushing to do any of this. :-) I rarely
bother with LPs these days. But I am interested in results people get.


Oh, this is all pretty well academic only. Vinyl is not for quality
any more - it is for nostalgia and dinner party bragging rights. It
doesn't actually matter how saggy it is. In fact the way this all
works, somebody will soon be claiming that it actually enhances the
sound.


I find that vinyl can sound pretty good.


I think the expression "damning with faint praise" covers it.

d

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote

'S'rallan' is the most consistent manufacturer in the history of
consumer electronics, AFAIC - he has yet to make anything that a) would
interest me; b) I would buy....

(Odious little barrow boy....)


Your lack of interest in his products doesn't seem to have done Sir Alan
any harm. Here he is, rolling in dough, TV star and government supremo
for something or other (I forget).


So...???

Ah!, you didn't understand my point - never mind.


It appears I did and, no, I don't mind....


I wasn't defending Sir
Alan, I was pointing out that he probably doesn't care what you think
about him.


Get away.....



Let me give you a clue how we think in my family: As a staunch/lifelong
Tory, my grandmother wasn't too thrilled when my grand-dad invited
Clement Attlee round for Sunday lunch on a couple of occasions (he was PM
at the time*) and also as a staunch Catholic, when the Pope of the day
(long time ago, now) decreed that RCs could eat meat on a Friday, she
said words to the effect 'WTF does he know? He's only the Pope!' and
never did eat meat on a Friday!

(OK not quite 'WTF' I believe, but you get the idea! :-)

Sorry?, what the hell does that pointless anecdote have to do with
anything?



A simple attempt to show you I come from a fairly long line of people who
aren't easily impressed by 'celebrity' and who certainly don't give a rat's
arse about the sort of cheesy crap you seemed to be in such awe of....

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Looser wrote:
Sorry?, what the hell does that pointless anecdote have to do with
anything?

Remember he's a pal of Churches. Image is everything. ;-)


Do wake up, FFS....

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Now that's about me done - this group has become simply too slow and too
damn boring to bother with!

Why have I got that deja vu feeling? ;-)


I dare say you have, but hardly worth a cigar though, is it?

(You'll soon have this place all to yourself again, I expect! ;-)

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Sorry?, what the hell does that pointless anecdote have to do with
anything?

A simple attempt to show you I come from a fairly long line of people
who aren't easily impressed by 'celebrity' and who certainly don't give
a rat's arse about the sort of cheesy crap you seemed to be in such awe
of....

Crikey. Where did it all go wrong for you, then?

--
*Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


A simple attempt to show you I come from a fairly long line of people who
aren't easily impressed by 'celebrity' and who certainly don't give a
rat's arse about the sort of cheesy crap you seemed to be in such awe
of....


You really don't get it do you? I am no more in "awe" of celebrity than you
are, probably less. And secondly I don't give a rat's arse what sort of
people you come from a "long line of", you simply aren't that important,
even if you think you are.

David.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Sorry?, what the hell does that pointless anecdote have to do with
anything?

A simple attempt to show you I come from a fairly long line of people
who aren't easily impressed by 'celebrity' and who certainly don't give
a rat's arse about the sort of cheesy crap you seemed to be in such awe
of....

Crikey. Where did it all go wrong for you, then?


Ooh, let's not do that, shall we? (I don't subscribe to 'it's all gone wrong
for me' thinking - I've pushed my luck and got away with it too often for
that! :-)

Get out and grab some of this lovely sunshine while you can - I'll be off
out on my Harrrrleeee once a 'certain' computer operation I'm running has
finished!

:-)



--
*Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?


Basics?




Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...


A simple attempt to show you I come from a fairly long line of people who
aren't easily impressed by 'celebrity' and who certainly don't give a
rat's arse about the sort of cheesy crap you seemed to be in such awe
of....


You really don't get it do you? I am no more in "awe" of celebrity than
you are, probably less. And secondly I don't give a rat's arse what sort
of people you come from a "long line of", you simply aren't that
important, even if you think you are.

David.


Calm *down* dear!

Check what I wrote and note the word 'seemed' - I think you read that as
'seem' ... no?

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4aae7abe.98332562@localhost
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:36:35 GMT, Rob
wrote:

I find that vinyl can sound pretty good.

I think the expression "damning with faint praise" covers
it.


It sounded a whole lot better to me before I had the opportunity to listen
to 15 ips tapes.

Then came the CD with much more variety, albeit with occasional ******* that
were obviously mastered by numbskulls.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message


In article , Keith G
wrote:

A better 'trick' might have been to realise that they'd
go out of business and be replaced by 'foreign'
manufacturers if they couldn't be bothered to deliver the
same level of quality and reliability at competing
prices.

But some UK makers of LPs simply assumed that they owned
the artists that people wanted to hear and would put up
with crapping manufacturing at the prices the suits the
makers. I recall that EMI refused to produce CDs for a
long time. The real reason probably being that they
didn't want to invest in being able to make them, or the
QC required. Easier to try and get people to go on buying
ever more poorly made LPs at lower prices, so they
thought...


The really scary part is where US music lovers and audiophiles were gaga
over "European Pressings", even those made in the UK.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message



But some UK makers of LPs simply assumed that they owned the artists
that people wanted to hear and would put up with crapping
manufacturing at the prices the suits the makers. I recall that EMI
refused to produce CDs for a long time. The real reason probably being
that they didn't want to invest in being able to make them, or the QC
required. Easier to try and get people to go on buying ever more
poorly made LPs at lower prices, so they thought...


The really scary part is where US music lovers and audiophiles were gaga
over "European Pressings", even those made in the UK.

I recall reading about that and being baffled by it. I could understand
preferring some of the German/Dutch pressings as in my experience they
tended to be vastly better than UK ones. But my experience with EMI UK
pressings habituated me to decide in advance when it would be convenient to
return to the shop when buying one. Thus pre-planning the usual need to ask
for a replacement in the (often vain) hope it would be better made.

I did wonder if this was a 'brown eggs' effect. That someone at EMI was
selecting the better pressings to sell to the USA at higher prices, and
leaving us with the 'rejects'. ahem Sort of the reverse of what we do
with whisky. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:36:35 GMT, Rob
wrote:
snip

I find that vinyl can sound pretty good.


I think the expression "damning with faint praise" covers it.

d

No no, that'd be praising with faint damnation.

Bit of good news:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/r...-catalog_N.htm

" . . . a long-overdue digital reparation that restores the original
vinyl's wider midrange, pin-drop clarity and rhythmic heft."

Now, I wouldn't go quite that far but at least they're listening.

Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments seem
to have been brought forward in the mix.

Rob

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Rob" wrote in message
om...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:36:35 GMT, Rob
wrote:
snip

I find that vinyl can sound pretty good.


I think the expression "damning with faint praise" covers it.

d

No no, that'd be praising with faint damnation.

Bit of good news:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/r...-catalog_N.htm

" . . . a long-overdue digital reparation that restores the original
vinyl's wider midrange, pin-drop clarity and rhythmic heft."


What is a "wider midrange" when it's at home?

Now, I wouldn't go quite that far but at least they're listening.

Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments seem to
have been brought forward in the mix.


Were these just remasters, or remixes?

David.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

David Looser wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
om...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:36:35 GMT, Rob
wrote:
snip
I find that vinyl can sound pretty good.

I think the expression "damning with faint praise" covers it.

d
No no, that'd be praising with faint damnation.

Bit of good news:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/r...-catalog_N.htm

" . . . a long-overdue digital reparation that restores the original
vinyl's wider midrange, pin-drop clarity and rhythmic heft."


What is a "wider midrange" when it's at home?


It means the bit in the middle of the sound is more expansive. Dunno! I
was listening to some Nina Simone LPs the other day, and her voice
sounded pretty special - perhaps it's a reference to vocal 'fullness' as
opposed to 'thinness'.

Now, I wouldn't go quite that far but at least they're listening.

Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments seem to
have been brought forward in the mix.


Were these just remasters, or remixes?


It says 'remasters' - 5 years' work apparently. I should think one
person's remaster is another's remix - whatever sells. Not sure of the
technical distinction.

Rob

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article , Rob
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:


Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments seem
to have been brought forward in the mix.

So far I've only heard the 'new' Please Please Me CD. The obvious
difference between it and the earlier CD is that the 'new' one is in the
same kind of 'stereo' as the original 'stereo' LP. Not done any serious
comparisons (as yet) because I'm busy with something else on that front,
but just enjoyed the music. At present I plan to get the first four in the
series as the initial CDs were mono. May then get the others if there seems
any reason to do so.

FWIW The 'video' seems to be in quicktime format, but FFMPEG gave me a
more convenient version in MPEG format. :-) That said, if you have seen
the recent programme on BBC4 then I guess you have seen what is in the
video on the CD. Can't say that 'bonus' seemed to me to be a reason to buy
new copies of the CDs if you already have decent CD and/or LP versions.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
Rob wrote:
Bit of good news:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/r...-catalog_N.htm

" . . . a long-overdue digital reparation that restores the original
vinyl's wider midrange, pin-drop clarity and rhythmic heft."

Now, I wouldn't go quite that far but at least they're listening.

Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments seem
to have been brought forward in the mix.

More I hear of these the less I'm tempted to buy them. I have all the
original LPs and all the original CDs. And in general, the CDs are what
you'd expect of a good transfer from an analogue master tape.

If these new transfers sound radically different it's because they've been
screwed around with - and therefore unlikely to be 'improved'. Apart from
perhaps those used to modern over bright over compressed pop music.

--
*A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times more memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Rob" wrote


Bit of good news:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/r...-catalog_N.htm

" . . . a long-overdue digital reparation that restores the original
vinyl's wider midrange, pin-drop clarity and rhythmic heft."

Now, I wouldn't go quite that far but at least they're listening.

Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments seem to
have been brought forward in the mix.


If you like the Beatles you'll probably like the movie 'Across The
Universe':

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0445922/

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
So far I've only heard the 'new' Please Please Me CD. The obvious
difference between it and the earlier CD is that the 'new' one is in the
same kind of 'stereo' as the original 'stereo' LP. Not done any serious
comparisons (as yet) because I'm busy with something else on that front,
but just enjoyed the music. At present I plan to get the first four in
the series as the initial CDs were mono. May then get the others if
there seems any reason to do so.

The reason they are mono is because they weren't made in stereo. Twin
track mixdowns were done for production reasons, but weren't stereo. I
have both mono and 'stereo' versions of the original LPs, and the stereo
ones are of interest only. And it wouldn't be possible to produce anything
approaching even decent pan pot stereo without re-recording the original
sessions.

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Rob
wrote:
Bit of good news:


More I hear of these the less I'm tempted to buy them. I have all the
original LPs and all the original CDs. And in general, the CDs are what
you'd expect of a good transfer from an analogue master tape.

I have my doubts about the claims being made - in both directions, 'better'
or 'worse'. I've not done any serious comparison, but as I reported earlier
the one CD I've tried didn't sound noticably different to the orginal CDs,
beyond being in 'stereo'. Not yet compared with my old LP versions. So
can't yet comment on if there have been any fiddling about with the
dynamics, frequency response, etc.

My main interest at this point is that the first four 'LPs' are now being
released in 'stereo' rather than the mono versions.

If these new transfers sound radically different it's because they've
been screwed around with - and therefore unlikely to be 'improved'.

Quite possibly. However as yet I don't know if they actually *do* sound
different. That may be figments of the imagination of reviewers and
publicity types. Can't say at this point! No obvious differences in sound
quality have struck me as yet. But it has been a while since I played the
previous versions.

I did find it quite amusing that one review (PlayCom) moaned that the
'stereo' was like the orginal LPs with the voices on one side and the
instruments on the other. That's how it was, folks. No 64-track source
tapes to 'remix'. if you don't like it, buy the mono version as that was
the principle one at the time. :-)

Come to think of it, what did surprise me (forgetting the greed of big
companies) is that they didn't put both the mono and 'stereo' versions onto
the same CD. Have a number of reissues of other artists like Cream that did
that to good effect. Alas, always with the risk of the material being
'improved' sic. I was quite impressed a few years ago with some Who/Cream
re-issues that did this, pace the problems of compression and other
fiddling about. I'd have much preferred such extras to a mini video which
you watch once and then forget. But I guess 'video documentaries' 3 mins
long are more trendy... Style rules over substance.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Rob
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:


Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments seem
to have been brought forward in the mix.

So far I've only heard the 'new' Please Please Me CD. The obvious
difference between it and the earlier CD is that the 'new' one is in the
same kind of 'stereo' as the original 'stereo' LP. Not done any serious
comparisons (as yet) because I'm busy with something else on that front,
but just enjoyed the music. At present I plan to get the first four in the
series as the initial CDs were mono. May then get the others if there seems
any reason to do so.


You could just buy a couple of mp3s for analysis.

FWIW The 'video' seems to be in quicktime format, but FFMPEG gave me a
more convenient version in MPEG format. :-) That said, if you have seen
the recent programme on BBC4 then I guess you have seen what is in the
video on the CD. Can't say that 'bonus' seemed to me to be a reason to buy
new copies of the CDs if you already have decent CD and/or LP versions.


Not sure which video you mean - but I liked 'The Beatles on Record'
shown recently. Great technique of subject focus in archive
footage/photos, and blurring the rest.

Rob

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

Keith G wrote:

"Rob" wrote


Bit of good news:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/r...-catalog_N.htm


" . . . a long-overdue digital reparation that restores the original
vinyl's wider midrange, pin-drop clarity and rhythmic heft."

Now, I wouldn't go quite that far but at least they're listening.

Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments seem
to have been brought forward in the mix.


If you like the Beatles you'll probably like the movie 'Across The
Universe':

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0445922/



Thanks for that Keith - hadn't noticed.

Rob

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article , Rob
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Rob
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:


Have you/anyone heard these remasters? While they sound quite good, I
can't help thinking something odd's going on. Certain instruments
seem to have been brought forward in the mix.

So far I've only heard the 'new' Please Please Me CD. The obvious
difference between it and the earlier CD is that the 'new' one is in
the same kind of 'stereo' as the original 'stereo' LP. Not done any
serious comparisons (as yet) because I'm busy with something else on
that front, but just enjoyed the music. At present I plan to get the
first four in the series as the initial CDs were mono. May then get
the others if there seems any reason to do so.


You could just buy a couple of mp3s for analysis.

MP3 versions are generally suspect for analysis purposes as they overlay
the effects of mp3 data reduction. And it is easy enough to get the CDs

FWIW The 'video' seems to be in quicktime format,

Not sure which video you mean - but I liked 'The Beatles on Record'
shown recently. Great technique of subject focus in archive
footage/photos, and blurring the rest.

if you put one of the 'new' CDs into a computer drive you will find the
hold an ISO filer and a 'quicktime' move. I can't directly view quicktime,
so converted the one on the Please Please Me CD into an MPEG. But it is
just a short snippet from the same material as the TV programme.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:
So far I've only heard the 'new' Please Please Me CD. The obvious
difference between it and the earlier CD is that the 'new' one is in
the same kind of 'stereo' as the original 'stereo' LP. Not done any
serious comparisons (as yet) because I'm busy with something else on
that front, but just enjoyed the music. At present I plan to get the
first four in the series as the initial CDs were mono. May then get
the others if there seems any reason to do so.

The reason they are mono is because they weren't made in stereo. Twin
track mixdowns were done for production reasons, but weren't stereo.

Agreed. That is why used inverted commas to refer to 'stereo'. They are
just the two tracks from a two track tape recording with vocals on one
track and instruments on the other. However they are of interest as a
comparison with the orginal 'stereo' (note inverted commas again!) LP
version. Also of interest if you want to play with mono and balance
controls to adjust the voice/instrument level balance. :-)

I have both mono and 'stereo' versions of the original LPs, and the
stereo ones are of interest only. And it wouldn't be possible to produce
anything approaching even decent pan pot stereo without re-recording the
original sessions.

Indeed. Hence my amusement about a reviewer who moaned that the 'stereo'
was no better than the original LPs. :-)

Of course the could have moved the voice track to center. But what would
they have then done with the instrument tracks if they wanted to avoid
simple mono? Hence their decision makes sense to me. Mind you, maybe
people who don't have a mono button on their preamp would argue. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Bluray with full-on HD sound, naturlich!)

Wot's HD sound, Kitty?

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Rob" wrote

Luckily I've not considered the whole bluray/HD thing all that important.
Not sure why - I'm usually willing to throw obscene amounts of money at
that sort of thing. 42" LCD is more than enough, and a 700MB DVD rip looks
OK, panning shots apart.

Bit jealous though :-)


You can't avoid Bluray Rob, it's inevitable/unstoppable/the coming thing/the
best thing since sliced stuff! Just stick a BD player on your telly and I
think you'll be blown away by the difference - despite that the smaller the
screen the less the impact, of course! Apart from the picture, there's the
HD sound - no more *grainy* 16/44.1!

And the extras like BD Live - wait 20 minutes for a 3 minute trailer to be
downloaded and then have the movie utterly spoiled!!

:-)


(That said, Eddie Izzard needs to find a *voice* somewhere PDQ or just
pack in trying to do this sort of thing!)


Saw him live a while back. 9 parts ****ed for the first half hour,
followed by the the funniest hour of standup I think I've seen.


:-)


Now, anyone wanna see a pic of the oil ****ing out of my Harrrrleeee?

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/OilLeakB.JPG

(Takes yer back a bit, don't it? :-)


WTF?! Is that the one you've just had bored?


Yes - is why it's ****ing oil!

(I think I've tonked it a bit too hard before it was 'tightened down at 500
miles! :-)


Only experience of bikes was a Honda 90 moped. As usual, I stripped it
down and built it up for no particular reason - what i'd call nicely
engineered.


Cetainly - the original Jap built 50 and 90cc Cub/Super Cub/Wotever were
absolutely *indestructible* and are rated the 'best bikes of all time' on a
number of different criteria!



Funnily enough, one step closer to doing the bike test - beer fuelled
agreement with a colleague :-)


Blimey! What's brought this on?

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Bluray with full-on HD sound, naturlich!)

Wot's HD sound, Kitty?


Uh oh, he's gone again!

(Shame - I thought he was doing so well for a while there! ;-)

Leopard. Spots, I guess....




--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe
together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Apart from the picture, there's the HD sound - no more *grainy* 16/44.1!

Except, of course, that on a DVD it's 16/48. And any audible difference
between it and so-called "HD" sound exists only in your imagination. Hey you
are the guy who keeps complaining that the effects of warped records is
inaudible!

David.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Apart from the picture, there's the HD sound - no more *grainy* 16/44.1!

Except, of course, that on a DVD it's 16/48. And any audible difference
between it and so-called "HD" sound exists only in your imagination. Hey
you are the guy who keeps complaining that the effects of warped records
is inaudible!


Not me, squire - I would say that's a reason for rejoicing, not
complaining....