The BBC have started broadcasting Radio on the internet using AAC. AIUI
these streams are encapsulated with Flash, and whilst this may benefit the
iPlayer where does this leave internet radios?

Will the BBC start broadcasting an unencapsulated stream, do they expect
internet radios to adapt or continue to use the existing WMA stream?


--
Michael Chare

In article , Michael Chare
wrote:
The BBC have started broadcasting Radio on the internet using AAC. AIUI
these streams are encapsulated with Flash, and whilst this may benefit
the iPlayer where does this leave internet radios?

Will the BBC start broadcasting an unencapsulated stream, do they
expect internet radios to adapt or continue to use the existing WMA
stream?

I don't know the current position, so what I say next may be out of date!
But I had a conversation with 'sources' at the BBC about it some time ago.
AIUI Their view at that point was that they had not satisfied themselves
that there was (yet) an established standard for AAC streaming and at that
point and they preferred to focus on ACC for the iPlayer whilst continuing
to provide the existing (non AAC) streams for 'legacy' systems like net
radio boxes. But I was told they will keep this in mind, so it may change
at some point.

That said, my impression is also that they prefer the iPlayer as it gives
them a bit more control over access from the copyright POV. They didn't say
this to me, though. Just my suspicion.

Personally, having compared using a computer for the iPlayer with a 'net
radio' I'd say I found using the computer far easier as well as giving
better results. Given that DVB-T (Freeview) also gives decent results I
can't say that the lack of AAC for net radios bothers me much. And the net
radio I've been trying can't cope with AAC anyway, despite being a current
model. The makers told me they had no plans to upgrade it.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 09:09:47 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Personally, having compared using a computer for the iPlayer with a 'net
radio' I'd say I found using the computer far easier as well as giving
better results.

I find a bedside net radio easier to use (and more acceptable to my
better half) than a bedside computer. (She did complain that the Pure
Avanti Flow I use is rather large - and I must agree with her on that
point.)

Out of interest, which net radio(s) did you try?

The main advantage of a net radio for me is the availability of
foreign stations (like BR Klassik and France Musique) at reasonable
quality. (For the UK, DAB suffices - with satellite and a computer
with an outboard USB sound module for serious listening.)


Chris.

--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The BBC have started broadcasting Radio on the internet using AAC.
AIUI these streams are encapsulated with Flash, and whilst this may
benefit the iPlayer where does this leave internet radios?

Will the BBC start broadcasting an unencapsulated stream, do they
expect internet radios to adapt or continue to use the existing WMA
stream?


I was told that they intend to deliver non-Flash AAC streams in
future, but they also said that that might be some time away from
happening, and the person who said it has since left the BBC, so I've
no idea whether they will end up delivering them or not.


--
Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM

www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info

"It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via
internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I
believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to
come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a
window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report

In article , Chris Isbell
wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 09:09:47 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Personally, having compared using a computer for the iPlayer with a
'net radio' I'd say I found using the computer far easier as well as
giving better results.

I find a bedside net radio easier to use (and more acceptable to my
better half) than a bedside computer. (She did complain that the Pure
Avanti Flow I use is rather large - and I must agree with her on that
point.)

Out of interest, which net radio(s) did you try?

At present I am having a play with a Roberts - big black box but I've
forgotten the model number at present!

The main advantage of a net radio for me is the availability of foreign
stations (like BR Klassik and France Musique) at reasonable quality.

Are they not available as net streams you can pick up with your computer? I
know the AVRO stations and various other European Classical ones are as I
do listen to them occasionally.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:55:33 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

The main advantage of a net radio for me is the availability of foreign
stations (like BR Klassik and France Musique) at reasonable quality.

Are they not available as net streams you can pick up with your computer? I
know the AVRO stations and various other European Classical ones are as I
do listen to them occasionally.

Yes, I believe they are. However, it is likely that the satellite feed
will be of a better quality. (BR Klassik, for example, is 320kbps
MP2.) I take the digital output from the satellite receiver (its
onboard circuitry is audibly poor) through an external DAC, an
amplifier and Quad electrostatics ('57s).

Overall it is not at all bad - and I get to improve my German and
French listening skills to boot! (Swiss radio is best for this because
the announcers alternate between French and German.)

--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

In article , Chris Isbell
wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:55:33 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

The main advantage of a net radio for me is the availability of
foreign stations (like BR Klassik and France Musique) at reasonable
quality.

Are they not available as net streams you can pick up with your
computer? I know the AVRO stations and various other European Classical
ones are as I do listen to them occasionally.

Yes, I believe they are. However, it is likely that the satellite feed
will be of a better quality. (BR Klassik, for example, is 320kbps MP2.)
I take the digital output from the satellite receiver (its onboard
circuitry is audibly poor) through an external DAC, an amplifier and
Quad electrostatics ('57s).

Right. However I was asking about your comment re using net radio. I was
assuming from the context you were saying that BRK and France Musique were
an advantage for using a net radio device as the rx over using a computer,
etc.

Overall it is not at all bad - and I get to improve my German and French
listening skills to boot! (Swiss radio is best for this because the
announcers alternate between French and German.)

I've found all kinds of music on net stations with the announcements not in
English. Fortunately for me, the streams often have an accompanying set of
tags that label the content for when I don't recognise it! :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message
...
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The BBC have started broadcasting Radio on the internet using AAC. AIUI
these streams are encapsulated with Flash, and whilst this may benefit
the iPlayer where does this leave internet radios?

Will the BBC start broadcasting an unencapsulated stream, do they expect
internet radios to adapt or continue to use the existing WMA stream?


I was told that they intend to deliver non-Flash AAC streams in future,
but they also said that that might be some time away from happening, and
the person who said it has since left the BBC, so I've no idea whether
they will end up delivering them or not.


--
Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM

www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info

"It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via
internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I
believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to
come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a
window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report


Thanks for the replies. I suppose that one advantage of the internet is
that new formats can be introduced without bandwidth having to be allocated.

--
Michael Chare

On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:12:42 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Right. However I was asking about your comment re using net radio. I was
assuming from the context you were saying that BRK and France Musique were
an advantage for using a net radio device as the rx over using a computer,
etc.

For me, the main advantages of a net radio are that it is silent (no
fans or hard disks), it starts up faster and it is in a different room
from my computer.

The main downside of the one I use is no digital output to feed
external equipment.

've found all kinds of music on net stations with the announcements not in
English. Fortunately for me, the streams often have an accompanying set of
tags that label the content for when I don't recognise it! :-)

Parles-tu français ? Sprichst du Deutsch? :-)

--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

In article , Chris Isbell
wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:12:42 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Right. However I was asking about your comment re using net radio. I
was assuming from the context you were saying that BRK and France
Musique were an advantage for using a net radio device as the rx over
using a computer, etc.

For me, the main advantages of a net radio are that it is silent (no
fans or hard disks), it starts up faster and it is in a different room
from my computer.

This has been a concern for me. However it is possible to get computers
which make little or no noises. Albeit with a cost and some searching
around, etc. The Shuttle 'PC' I use has its fan disconnected, uses a
fanless brick PSU, and I have a SSD instead of a conventional HD. So it
makes no 'noises off' when I am using it to play audio, iPlayer, etc. Using
Ubuntu helps as it is quite happy with a 60GB SSD and only occupies a GB or
two.

I now also have a new laptop with a fanless PSU brick and a 60GB SSD. This
does have a fan, but it almost never comes on when I am simply listening to
the radio iPlayer or LPCM soundfiles. Does come on when using the 'TV#
iPlayer, though.

The main downside of the one I use is no digital output to feed external
equipment.

With the Shuttle I've ended up feeding digital via USB to a DACMagic, and I
then run an optical spdif from that to my Meridian 563 to break any ground
loops and get reclocking. Bit OTT but sounds good. :-)

With the Laptop I feed out its optical spdif to Pioneer CD recorder that I
also use as a player in the room where I tend to sit and use computers.
Meaning to try out a cheaper USB device, but as yet lack the round tuits...

Has anyone reading this tried, say, the 'Firestone' USB dac that has an
optical output?

've found all kinds of music on net stations with the announcements not
in English. Fortunately for me, the streams often have an accompanying
set of tags that label the content for when I don't recognise it! :-)

Parles-tu français ? Sprichst du Deutsch? :-)

A few words. :-) Many years ago I used to travel a lot when I worked in
mm-wave astronomy. Made kit for 90 - 400 GHz receiver systems and took it
to telescopes, etc. So did pick up 'FrangleDeutch' which was a guddle of
various European languages. But I've only ever been able to do that on the
basis of 'hear and learn'. Enough for some purposes, but hardly general
fluency! Found *English* hard enough to pick up! :-)

FWIW Many decades ago I was working in Tolouse for months. Project to use
Concorde 001 to fly along the track of a total eclipse to get prolonged
shadow for mm-wave measurements of the solar atmosphere. This mean I did
pick up some of the local dialect French. Mainly words for tools like
screwdrivers, equipment like transformers, etc, and how to order food and
drink.

With me was an academic who'd learned 'good' French at school. The problem
for him was that came across as a 'posh accent' to the locals. So they used
to pretend they could not understand what he said and turned to me to
explain as I spoke with the accent I'd picked up from them. :-)

But I can't now recall more than a few words.

Later on, most of the visits to telescopes were to Hawai'i. Less of a
language problem, but found people kept assuming I was Australian. ;-

Fun whilst it lasted. I love the views from c14,000ft up a mountain. And
despite being very unfit I never had problems with the lack of atomsphere.

Was one of the reasons I later got my old research group into making
mm-wave radars etc for volcanology. So they could boldly go up volcanoes
and have fun with big boots on around the world. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html