On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:12:59 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:47:13 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

We're discussing compression, which can be measured objectively -
please don't try to divert the discussion onto the metaphysical. Show
me compression.

**DBTs are not metaphysical. They allow REAL differences to be heard. Tell
me about your experiences with DBTs between MOSFET and BJT amps.


Stop changing the subject. Either there is compression as you claim,
or there is not. Show me evidence of compression.

**I cannot. Try the test and let me know what you hear. Perhaps you will
have a different explanation. Negative tempco of gm is the only thing that
makes sense to me.

We are discussing one single parameter - compression. Once you start
with nonsense like seeing what you hear, you are no longer able to
isolate that parameter - you hear the sum of everything. And of course
mixed in with your "just listen" thing is all your bull****tery with
terms like "more dynamic". This is meaningless drivel, and the
standard recourse of the charlatan trying to claim superior skills of
discernment to the average man. It won't wash. You made the claim, now
substantiate it or withdraw it.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:12:59 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:47:13 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

We're discussing compression, which can be measured objectively -
please don't try to divert the discussion onto the metaphysical. Show
me compression.

**DBTs are not metaphysical. They allow REAL differences to be heard.
Tell
me about your experiences with DBTs between MOSFET and BJT amps.


Stop changing the subject. Either there is compression as you claim,
or there is not. Show me evidence of compression.

**I cannot. Try the test and let me know what you hear. Perhaps you will
have a different explanation. Negative tempco of gm is the only thing that
makes sense to me.

We are discussing one single parameter - compression. Once you start
with nonsense like seeing what you hear, you are no longer able to
isolate that parameter - you hear the sum of everything. And of course
mixed in with your "just listen" thing is all your bull****tery with
terms like "more dynamic". This is meaningless drivel, and the
standard recourse of the charlatan trying to claim superior skills of
discernment to the average man. It won't wash. You made the claim, now
substantiate it or withdraw it.

**I'm uncertain of what you are demanding I withdraw. Are you demanding that
I withdraw my theory that pertains to why MOSFET amps sound so bad? Or are
you demanding I withdraw what I and others hear?

Given the problems that many people hear with MOSFET amps, I proferred a
theory. I cannot validate that theory. If you have an alternate theory to
explain what people hear, then please present it.

As for claims of "superior skills of discernment", I make no such claims. My
hearing is just average. Anyone with average hearing will easily discern the
problems I speak of. I suggest you conduct your own test and confirm.
Perhaps you will develop a more credible theory.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:27:39 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:12:59 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:47:13 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

We're discussing compression, which can be measured objectively -
please don't try to divert the discussion onto the metaphysical. Show
me compression.

**DBTs are not metaphysical. They allow REAL differences to be heard.
Tell
me about your experiences with DBTs between MOSFET and BJT amps.


Stop changing the subject. Either there is compression as you claim,
or there is not. Show me evidence of compression.

**I cannot. Try the test and let me know what you hear. Perhaps you will
have a different explanation. Negative tempco of gm is the only thing that
makes sense to me.

We are discussing one single parameter - compression. Once you start
with nonsense like seeing what you hear, you are no longer able to
isolate that parameter - you hear the sum of everything. And of course
mixed in with your "just listen" thing is all your bull****tery with
terms like "more dynamic". This is meaningless drivel, and the
standard recourse of the charlatan trying to claim superior skills of
discernment to the average man. It won't wash. You made the claim, now
substantiate it or withdraw it.

**I'm uncertain of what you are demanding I withdraw. Are you demanding that
I withdraw my theory that pertains to why MOSFET amps sound so bad? Or are
you demanding I withdraw what I and others hear?


The one specific claim which is the ONLY one I have been discussing in
the face of your attempts to drag the conversation into the nebulous -
compression by MOSFET amplifiers.

irrelevant stuff snipped

d

On 3 Nov, 23:27, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message

...





On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:12:59 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:47:13 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

We're discussing compression, which can be measured objectively -
please don't try to divert the discussion onto the metaphysical. Show
me compression.

**DBTs are not metaphysical. They allow REAL differences to be heard.
Tell
me about your experiences with DBTs between MOSFET and BJT amps.

Stop changing the subject. Either there is compression as you claim,
or there is not. Show me evidence of compression.

**I cannot. Try the test and let me know what you hear. Perhaps you will
have a different explanation. Negative tempco of gm is the only thing that
makes sense to me.

We are discussing one single parameter - compression. Once you start
with nonsense like seeing what you hear, you are no longer able to
isolate that parameter - you hear the sum of everything. And of course
mixed in with your "just listen" thing is all your bull****tery with
terms like "more dynamic". This is meaningless drivel, and the
standard recourse of the charlatan trying to claim superior skills of
discernment to the average man. It won't wash. You made the claim, now
substantiate it or withdraw it.

**I'm uncertain of what you are demanding I withdraw. Are you demanding that
I withdraw my theory that pertains to why MOSFET amps sound so bad? Or are
you demanding I withdraw what I and others hear?

Given the problems that many people hear with MOSFET amps, I proferred a
theory. I cannot validate that theory. If you have an alternate theory to
explain what people hear, then please present it.

As for claims of "superior skills of discernment", I make no such claims. My
hearing is just average. Anyone with average hearing will easily discern the
problems I speak of. I suggest you conduct your own test and confirm.
Perhaps you will develop a more credible theory.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

More OSAF nonsense from Trevor. People do not hear 'problems' with
MOSFET (or any other properly functioning) amplifiers, they all sound
the same unless clipping. I still have on the cards an offer of £1,000
to anyone who can hear differences among amplifiers or cables under
level-matched DBT conditions. No one has even *tried* in the more than
ten years this offer has been on the table. I've tried it myself -
which is the point at which I stopped building amps and just bought
the cheapest that would drive my speakers properly. I still have my
trusty pure Class A Krell as a reference, but lots of others to which
I have *carefully* compared it sound exactly the same when driving
lighter speaker loads than my Apogees.

"Audionut" wrote


Audionut?

snip Trevor's silly *opinionating*


More OSAF nonsense from Trevor. People do not hear 'problems' with
MOSFET (or any other properly functioning) amplifiers, they all sound
the same unless clipping. I still have on the cards an offer of £1,000
to anyone who can hear differences among amplifiers or cables under
level-matched DBT conditions. No one has even *tried* in the more than
ten years this offer has been on the table. I've tried it myself -
which is the point at which I stopped building amps and just bought
the cheapest that would drive my speakers properly. I still have my
trusty pure Class A Krell as a reference, but lots of others to which
I have *carefully* compared it sound exactly the same when driving
lighter speaker loads than my Apogees.



****! I've *conjured up* Pinky by mentioning him!!

How about if I mention Trotsky - I wonder what he's doing these days? Coupla
dozen more 'names from the past' and this place'll be just like old times!!
(Then I'll *definitely* have to bugger off! :-)


Anyway, you're going to have to up your £1,000 challenge, Pinkus - it's
starting to look like Dr Evil holding the world to ransom for....

little finger in corner of mouth

.....**A MILLION DOLLARS**...!!

:-)

"Audionut" wrote in message
...
On 3 Nov, 23:27, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message

...





On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:12:59 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:47:13 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

We're discussing compression, which can be measured objectively -
please don't try to divert the discussion onto the metaphysical.
Show
me compression.

**DBTs are not metaphysical. They allow REAL differences to be heard.
Tell
me about your experiences with DBTs between MOSFET and BJT amps.

Stop changing the subject. Either there is compression as you claim,
or there is not. Show me evidence of compression.

**I cannot. Try the test and let me know what you hear. Perhaps you will
have a different explanation. Negative tempco of gm is the only thing
that
makes sense to me.

We are discussing one single parameter - compression. Once you start
with nonsense like seeing what you hear, you are no longer able to
isolate that parameter - you hear the sum of everything. And of course
mixed in with your "just listen" thing is all your bull****tery with
terms like "more dynamic". This is meaningless drivel, and the
standard recourse of the charlatan trying to claim superior skills of
discernment to the average man. It won't wash. You made the claim, now
substantiate it or withdraw it.

**I'm uncertain of what you are demanding I withdraw. Are you demanding
that
I withdraw my theory that pertains to why MOSFET amps sound so bad? Or are
you demanding I withdraw what I and others hear?

Given the problems that many people hear with MOSFET amps, I proferred a
theory. I cannot validate that theory. If you have an alternate theory to
explain what people hear, then please present it.

As for claims of "superior skills of discernment", I make no such claims.
My
hearing is just average. Anyone with average hearing will easily discern
the
problems I speak of. I suggest you conduct your own test and confirm.
Perhaps you will develop a more credible theory.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

More OSAF nonsense from Trevor. People do not hear 'problems' with
MOSFET (or any other properly functioning) amplifiers, they all sound
the same unless clipping. I still have on the cards an offer of £1,000
to anyone who can hear differences among amplifiers or cables under
level-matched DBT conditions. No one has even *tried* in the more than
ten years this offer has been on the table. I've tried it myself -
which is the point at which I stopped building amps and just bought
the cheapest that would drive my speakers properly. I still have my
trusty pure Class A Krell as a reference, but lots of others to which
I have *carefully* compared it sound exactly the same when driving
lighter speaker loads than my Apogees.

**Is that really you Lord Pinkerton?

Let's recap:

When you performed your comparisons, did you SPECIFICALLY, compare a
primitive MOSFET, low bias Class A/B amp (Perreaux 2150) to a low bias Class
A/B BJT amp (Phase Linear 400)?

Now, to address your kind offer. If we can find a way to make the deal such
that I would cover my air fare and accommodation whilst in the UK, I will be
only too happy to compare MY BJT amp to any low bias Class A/B MOSFET, high
Global NFB amp you care to place in front of me. 1,000.00 Squid won't quite
do it for me.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au