"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Its purely because of mass production of course. once the main factories
making valves got below a certain number prices started going up, and vice
versa for semiconductors of course.
I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese copies of valves
around at the current time, as quality control is almost non existent,
though some Russian ones are made a lot better I'm told.


Well, I must have been leading a *charmed life* all these years and didn't
know it!!

First, I have never had anything like the 'normal failure rate' in vinyl
that others appear to have experienced and, to top that, I have never had
any problems with a variety of Chinese valves that have passed through my
hands - that's no problems whatsoever, AFAICR...??

CF2 miniature pentode/triode input valves were indistinguishable from
Mullard EC82 (?) replacements; Shuguan EL34 and various Chinese 300B output
valves all worked and sounded perfectly fine - including Golden Dragons
branded 'Audio Note' and 'Chelmer'!

Pity I can't have the same luck with lottery tickets!

@:-)


(In fact, I'd go as far as to say that all my valve and rectifier failures
have beeen Russian and whatever JJ Tesla is!!??)

"Keith G"


CF2 miniature pentode/triode input valves were indistinguishable from
Mullard EC82 (?) replacements; Shuguan EL34 and various Chinese 300B
output valves all worked and sounded perfectly fine - including Golden
Dragons branded 'Audio Note' and 'Chelmer'!


Streuth, that reminds me it's Christmas time again - here's a pic of my
miniatures off on their Christmas Holidays a few years ago!

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Holidays.jpg


And I'm wondering now if I didn't have a Chinese rectifier valve go pop on
me....??

On Dec 14, 4:12*pm, "Keith G" wrote:

And I'm wondering now if I didn't have a Chinese rectifier valve go pop on
me....??

Going *POP* on you is the least of your worries. It is when they melt
into a puddle with the subsequent down-line damage.

I do not stray far from Chinese 5AR4s - and I do keep two for bench
testing purposes.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Peter Wieck wrote:
On Dec 14, 4:12 pm, "Keith G" wrote:

And I'm wondering now if I didn't have a Chinese rectifier valve go pop on
me....??

Going *POP* on you is the least of your worries. It is when they melt
into a puddle with the subsequent down-line damage.

I do not stray far from Chinese 5AR4s - and I do keep two for bench
testing purposes.

When you say 'bench testing' do you men testing the bench against molten
glass?

Cheers

ian

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Brian said:

I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese
copies of valves around at the current time, as quality
control is almost non existent, though some Russian ones
are made a lot better I'm told.

Chinese valves haven't all been bad, although most made in
large quantities have been.

I notice Watford Valves, possibly the biggest UK retailer,
refused to sell Chinese valves on grounds of quality up
until recently. Now they offer quite a few.

If anyone's got their finger on the pulse, I wonder how well
Chinese valves are respected these days?

Ian

"Brian Gaff"

I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese copies of valves
around at the current time, as quality control is almost non existent,
though some Russian ones are made a lot better I'm told.



** Why refer to them as " Chinese copies of valves " ??

My info is that the Chinese purchased valve making equipment ( including
dies and materials) from Europe when factories there closed in the 1980s and
transported it to China.

This is so they could easily start making popular audio valves like EL34s,
6L6s and 12AX7s - for which there were no equivalent Chinese types in
production at the time.



..... Phil

Phil Allison wrote:
"Brian Gaff"
I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese copies of valves
around at the current time, as quality control is almost non existent,
though some Russian ones are made a lot better I'm told.



** Why refer to them as " Chinese copies of valves " ??

My info is that the Chinese purchased valve making equipment ( including
dies and materials) from Europe when factories there closed in the 1980s and
transported it to China.

This is so they could easily start making popular audio valves like EL34s,
6L6s and 12AX7s - for which there were no equivalent Chinese types in
production at the time.



.... Phil




That assumes that all that is required to make good tubes is the
equipment. Whether or not the Chinese have the necessary know how as
well is moot.

Cheers

Ian

"Ian Bell" wrote

That assumes that all that is required to make good tubes is the
equipment. Whether or not the Chinese have the necessary know how as well
is moot.


I'm sure that the nation that invented printing, gunpowder and bone china
(amongst many other things) won't have much problem in acquiring the
necessary know-how.

David.

"David Loser"
"Ian Bell ****ing RATBAG "

That assumes that all that is required to make good tubes is the
equipment. Whether or not the Chinese have the necessary know how as well
is moot.


I'm sure

** LOL - Loser is never sure if his ARSE e is on fire or nor !!

that the nation that invented printing, gunpowder and bone china (amongst
many other things) won't have much problem in acquiring the necessary
know-how.


** Shame all the EVIDENCE of the last 20+ years says the exact opposite -
ie Chinese audio valves are still of relatively* poor quality and with very
poor quality control as well.

Virtually all of them come from just one Chinese maker, " Shuguang Electron
Group Co Ltd."

http://www.shuguangelec.com/en/profile.asp


( * relatively = relative to the US, UK and major European brands before
they ceased operations )



...... Phil

David Looser wrote:

That assumes that all that is required to make good tubes
is the equipment. Whether or not the Chinese have the
necessary know how as well is moot.


I'm sure that the nation that invented printing, gunpowder
and bone china (amongst many other things) won't have much
problem in acquiring the necessary know-how.

Columbus set off with a Chinese map of the world, including
America in its proper location, drawn up before the Chinese
fleet was recalled because of a long period of war. As with
the UK, that fleet was made from pretty much all the trees
they had, which was a lot of trees. Then, as now, they
traded throughout the world without involving themselves in
the politics of distant places, and in the end they all went
home. Gunpowder but no guns, according to my edition of
"Shogun", in which the marauding Mongols arrive with
"thunder bombers", who set fire to bags of powder and hurl
them. Best used downhill against approaching heavy cavalry
so even if the bombers blow themselves up they still
frighten the horses. Guns arrived from Europe, much later.

The Chinese are generally well educated and just as clever
as other humans, so they aren't short of scientific and
engineering knowledge. What they must lack is an adequate
number of experienced technicians who are able to deal with
the everyday variations in industial production processes.
Not just in the assembly but also in the production of the
special materials. The machinery was made in the days when
production managers and technicians needed a real feel for
what they did.

Economically, it seems probable that the plants had become
"cash cows" before they went to China, and have remained so
since. Basically, plants producing products on the down side
of the product life cycle require little invesment and
produce cash until they eventually die. A cash cow is
typically matched with the manufacture of new products on
the rising side of the cycle, which consumes cash because of
continuous growth in turnover. Working for a cash cow is
thoroughly demoralising, especially for engineers. Patrick's
worst nightma all bean counting but with absolutely no
beans...extreme make-do-and-mend.

Anyway, for the kind of pace of development in China, plenty
of cash cows are a good alternative to debt, I guess. That's
presumably why they're buying car and aircraft plants for
old models, and countless other examples of outdated but
cheap and functional stuff.

Even if you had all the "know-how" would you, as a
businessman, invest money in producing an improved valve?
Would you replace all those worn machine tools and jigs?
Include the cost of not investing in something sensible.

It's not just the Chinese. *No-one else* was prepared to
invest in those plants. That's why they went to China.

Ian