bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:

D.M. Procida wrote:
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:

As for the system as a whole, I think that it's a bit over-bright and
tiring now, probably because of the room, and especially with harsher
sources like the Internet radio. I'm not sure what to do about that.

Somewhere in the dregs of my memory I seem to recall that those speakers
used to found a bit overbright by some reviewers so low bit rate music
*could* accentuate that. Maybe you could try towing them in at different
angles or moving them relative to the walls etc.

Yes, though I'm not sure how any of that's supposed to work.


Moving speaker positions by 'not very much' can make a really noticeable
difference at a particular listening position. I'm absolutely sure of this
from experience. However if you listen to music while in various positions
or while moving around it may not be worth doing. As for 'how it
works'..well..wave reflection/cancellation/addition/ etc. etc. If we could
see sound waves no doubt many people would be surprised at how they could
improve their setups for not much effort.

I can see that for soundwaves at the lower end of the spectrum, and I
have noticed the lower end affected by speaker positioning.

Now I was going to say that at the top end - which is the one that's
giving a bit of trouble - the waves are surely not long enough. But in
fact I just worked it out, and at 10KHz the wavelength is nearly 3cm, so
perhaps it's quite possible - but I've never noticed the effect on that
end.

Daniele

Keith Garratt wrote:

The CD player's display hasn't worked for about 10 years, but I can live
with that, though I admit was looking at the prices for second-hand
Cyrus CD players last night.

OK, that'll be 'size (form factor) thing' I expect

Indeed.

- pity you can't come
and collect the ducting, there's also 'Cyrus sized' Cyberhome DVD player
I don't need that plays CDs perfectly well!

Freecycle! You'd be amazed what people will take; just about anything
short of filthy rubble and smashed bricks.

I'm sure your ducting will be gratefully snapped up by someone.

Daniele

On 10/01/2010 13:12, bcoombes wrote:
D.M. Procida wrote:
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:

As for the system as a whole, I think that it's a bit over-bright and
tiring now, probably because of the room, and especially with harsher
sources like the Internet radio. I'm not sure what to do about that.

Somewhere in the dregs of my memory I seem to recall that those speakers
used to found a bit overbright by some reviewers so low bit rate music
*could* accentuate that. Maybe you could try towing them in at different
angles or moving them relative to the walls etc.

Yes, though I'm not sure how any of that's supposed to work.


Moving speaker positions by 'not very much' can make a really noticeable
difference at a particular listening position. I'm absolutely sure of
this from experience. However if you listen to music while in various
positions or while moving around it may not be worth doing. As for 'how
it works'..well..wave reflection/cancellation/addition/ etc. etc. If we
could see sound waves no doubt many people would be surprised at how
they could improve their setups for not much effort.


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

ISTR some magazine type (is/was there a Jimmy Hughes?) who advocated
turning speakers back to front for a while..??

Also, it makes no odds to me if my speakers get shifted about - the
sound is way out beyond them anyway!

Also, also, as I mentioned a little while back, you go into a secondhand
record shop and ask to hear a record and, with the speakers up near the
ceiling and invariably 90 degree on to each other (if not in separate
rooms), the sound is usually quite sublime....

.....and I believe the above mentioned JH pooted the postulation that
records would (for some obscure reason) tend to sound better in that
situation than when you got them back home and put them on to your own
(presumably superior) kit!

In summation - if the 'sweet spot' is so bloody small you can wreck it
by moving a speaker only slightly, you are using the wrong type of speaker!

Is my view....

;-)

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 13:54:23 +0000,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:

Moving speaker positions by 'not very much' can make a really noticeable
difference at a particular listening position. I'm absolutely sure of this
from experience. However if you listen to music while in various positions
or while moving around it may not be worth doing. As for 'how it
works'..well..wave reflection/cancellation/addition/ etc. etc. If we could
see sound waves no doubt many people would be surprised at how they could
improve their setups for not much effort.

I can see that for soundwaves at the lower end of the spectrum, and I
have noticed the lower end affected by speaker positioning.

Now I was going to say that at the top end - which is the one that's
giving a bit of trouble - the waves are surely not long enough. But in
fact I just worked it out, and at 10KHz the wavelength is nearly 3cm, so
perhaps it's quite possible - but I've never noticed the effect on that
end.

Why would wavelength be a factor?

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:09:25 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

That may demonstrate just how MUCH room effects matter, as compared to
direct sound. Though I'm a little surprised they didn't notice any
hf drop-off as the tweeters moved out of view.

Keith Garratt wrote:


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were
never sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker
was completely reversed!


That's odd because I can detect somebody walking across the room with my
eyes closed when my system is playing. This is despite the fact that my
hearing is getting older....HF cutoff is now significant above 12 kHz...used
to be good for 16kHz.

bcoombes wrote:

Moving speaker positions by 'not very much' can make a really
noticeable difference at a particular listening position. I'm
absolutely sure of this from experience. However if you listen to
music while in various positions or while moving around it may not be
worth doing. As for 'how it works'..well..wave
reflection/cancellation/addition/ etc. etc. If we could see sound
waves no doubt many people would be surprised at how they could
improve their setups for not much effort.

I'm currently trying to work out why my IPL TL speakers are giving
disappointing results and I suspect placement problems. Main problem is lack
of a well defined stereo image. Phasing is OK, levels are OK, listening to
test tones reveal large volume fluctuations as I move around the room,
presumably due to reflections and cancellation. I know there are some rules
of thumb to give optimum speaker positions but I'm limited by room/furniture
layout...and wife.

D.M. Procida wrote:
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:

D.M. Procida wrote:
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:

As for the system as a whole, I think that it's a bit over-bright and
tiring now, probably because of the room, and especially with harsher
sources like the Internet radio. I'm not sure what to do about that.

Somewhere in the dregs of my memory I seem to recall that those speakers
used to found a bit overbright by some reviewers so low bit rate music
*could* accentuate that. Maybe you could try towing them in at different
angles or moving them relative to the walls etc.
Yes, though I'm not sure how any of that's supposed to work.

Moving speaker positions by 'not very much' can make a really noticeable
difference at a particular listening position. I'm absolutely sure of this
from experience. However if you listen to music while in various positions
or while moving around it may not be worth doing. As for 'how it
works'..well..wave reflection/cancellation/addition/ etc. etc. If we could
see sound waves no doubt many people would be surprised at how they could
improve their setups for not much effort.

I can see that for soundwaves at the lower end of the spectrum, and I
have noticed the lower end affected by speaker positioning.

Now I was going to say that at the top end - which is the one that's
giving a bit of trouble - the waves are surely not long enough. But in
fact I just worked it out, and at 10KHz the wavelength is nearly 3cm, so
perhaps it's quite possible - but I've never noticed the effect on that
end.

Well, treble 'beams' more than bass and I certainly have managed to 'calm'
speakers down by moving them off axis (from the point of view of a particular
listening position obviously) but of course room size/shape/relative
reflectivity of the room surfaces and the objects in it all come into play.
Usually when I've done this in the past (before my hearing suffered severe hf
drop off) I used to sit in my listening chair with a cup of coffee and get a
third party to shift the speakers around for my listening consideration, usually
while listening to music that particularly exaggerated the effect I was trying
to adjust.

On 10/01/2010 13:58, D.M. Procida wrote:
Keith wrote:

The CD player's display hasn't worked for about 10 years, but I can live
with that, though I admit was looking at the prices for second-hand
Cyrus CD players last night.

OK, that'll be 'size (form factor) thing' I expect

Indeed.

- pity you can't come
and collect the ducting, there's also 'Cyrus sized' Cyberhome DVD player
I don't need that plays CDs perfectly well!

Freecycle! You'd be amazed what people will take; just about anything
short of filthy rubble and smashed bricks.

I'm sure your ducting will be gratefully snapped up by someone.

Daniele


OK, by way of trying to learn different procedures on a new machine
(different )S, keystrokes, softwares &c.) and get outdoors for a few
minutes, I've done some of my 'trademark' Show N Tell for you:

Here's the Cyberhome (note size compared with 'normal' CDP at the bottom):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Cyberhome.jpg


And here's the plastic conduit:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Conduit.jpg


See the furthest away - there's various short lengths in two different
sizes but not much of it altogether.

'Freecycle'...??

Not sure about that - I looked at it once and it seemed to require a
Blood Oath and five copies of my Birth Certificate, so I let it go...

Keith Garratt wrote:
On 10/01/2010 13:12, bcoombes wrote:
D.M. Procida wrote:
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:

As for the system as a whole, I think that it's a bit over-bright
and
tiring now, probably because of the room, and especially with harsher
sources like the Internet radio. I'm not sure what to do about that.

Somewhere in the dregs of my memory I seem to recall that those
speakers
used to found a bit overbright by some reviewers so low bit rate music
*could* accentuate that. Maybe you could try towing them in at
different
angles or moving them relative to the walls etc.

Yes, though I'm not sure how any of that's supposed to work.


Moving speaker positions by 'not very much' can make a really noticeable
difference at a particular listening position. I'm absolutely sure of
this from experience. However if you listen to music while in various
positions or while moving around it may not be worth doing. As for 'how
it works'..well..wave reflection/cancellation/addition/ etc. etc. If we
could see sound waves no doubt many people would be surprised at how
they could improve their setups for not much effort.


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

ISTR some magazine type (is/was there a Jimmy Hughes?) who advocated
turning speakers back to front for a while..??

Also, it makes no odds to me if my speakers get shifted about - the
sound is way out beyond them anyway!

Also, also, as I mentioned a little while back, you go into a secondhand
record shop and ask to hear a record and, with the speakers up near the
ceiling and invariably 90 degree on to each other (if not in separate
rooms), the sound is usually quite sublime....

....and I believe the above mentioned JH pooted the postulation that
records would (for some obscure reason) tend to sound better in that
situation than when you got them back home and put them on to your own
(presumably superior) kit!

In summation - if the 'sweet spot' is so bloody small you can wreck it
by moving a speaker only slightly, you are using the wrong type of speaker!

Is my view....

I see what you are saying but in these straightened times many of us are 'stuck'
with the speakers we have (For whatever reason). So making the best of them is
the only option.