In article , David
wrote:
Thou vain unchin-snouted knave!

How about 'mauchit', 'glaikit', and 'crabbit' then? :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:05:45 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"David" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

Service - the act of serving or assisting someone. This
includes both repairing and maintaining. It also
includes many other things such as serving food.

Repair - the service of correcting a fault, such as
those due to wear and tear, or accident.

Maintenance - routine service that puts off or
circumvents common faults by making premptive changes to
areas subject to predictable degradation, such as
cleaning and applying fresh lubrication to a bearing. IOW, both repair
and maintenance are services, but many
other things are services as well. In general the same
service organizations and service people provide both
repair and maintenance. The office copier service man
repairs faults and also performs scheduled maintenance.

You've nearly got it!

Actually, I've got it just right.

You fail to grasp that service is actually a very generalized word. It
includes both maintenance and repair, and it includes many other things.


No, we are not failing to grasp. We are quite clear about the
distinction. If they meant the same thing we wouldn't need two words .

Of course from what I've heard about the UK attitude towards service,
whether in the electronics shop or the coffee shop, I think I understand a
lot of the confusion that you guys are experiencing. No concept of service.
No service attitude.


What confusion would that be? We English (and apparently Swedes too)
understand the difference between service and repair perfectly. The
confusion obviously lies with those who muddle them up.

In the US we consider the "Service Industry" to be a major business segment.
We've profited well by educating the rest of the world about the meaning of
the word service. Pity that it did not take better in the UK.


You are joking, right? Service in the US comes from pimply teenagers
more interested in dating than serving, or superannuated grandmothers
in unsuitable mini skirts and support tights. I sigh with relief when
I get back here to be served by actual, real people.

BTW it appears that we're going to seriously damage Toyota in world markets
because they did not adequately learn the meaning of the word service from
us. We tried! To the world it looks like they did themselves in. Our hands
are clean but we are the ones most likely to profit from their stumbles, all
centering on the meaning of the word service.


Meanings, surely? You are now using the words in a quite different
context to the one the discussion was about.

FWIW I've always had pretty good service in hotels and resturants in the UK,
but I have only been in the the more civilized parts that foreign tourists
commonly visit, like on the Heathrow side of London.


Visit the rest too. Go to Brick Lane where the Bangladeshi immigrant
community gathers and enjoy some of the best curry you ever tasted.
And of course go to the bagel shop any time day or night for a salt
beef bagel second to none.

As for service, it should be what you want it to be. Personally I
cringe when I go into a restaurant and somebody I don't know announces
"Hi, I'm Brian and I'm going to be your waiter this evening". Two
things - 1. I couldn't give a crap what his name is and 2. I will
probably guess he is the waiter when he hands me a menu".

Apparently the attitude towards the primacy of the word service is lost in
other parts of the UK. Sad.



d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:05:45 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

You fail to grasp that service is actually a very
generalized word. It includes both maintenance and
repair, and it includes many other things.

No, we are not failing to grasp.

The following paragraph may represent a new high in UKRA miscommunication. I
am talking about one word and you respond as if you were talking about 2
words:

We are quite clear about
the distinction. If they meant the same thing we wouldn't
need two words .

I guess that is another big difference between the UK and the USA. You act
like your dictionary has only one meaning for service, and our dictionaries
list something like 21 different meanings for the word!

Of course from what I've heard about the UK attitude
towards service, whether in the electronics shop or the
coffee shop, I think I understand a lot of the confusion
that you guys are experiencing. No concept of service.
No service attitude.

What confusion would that be? We English (and apparently
Swedes too) understand the difference between service and
repair perfectly. The confusion obviously lies with those
who muddle them up.

In this context USA English indicates that repair is a subset of service.

In the US we consider the "Service Industry" to be a
major business segment. We've profited well by educating
the rest of the world about the meaning of the word
service. Pity that it did not take better in the UK.

You are joking, right? Service in the US comes from
pimply teenagers more interested in dating than serving,
or superannuated grandmothers in unsuitable mini skirts
and support tights. I sigh with relief when I get back
here to be served by actual, real people.

The exclusion of teenagers and retirees from the set of legitimate providers
of service if not the entire human race seems to be another problem that you
struggle with.

BTW it appears that we're going to seriously damage
Toyota in world markets because they did not adequately
learn the meaning of the word service from us. We
tried! To the world it looks like they did themselves
in. Our hands are clean but we are the ones most likely
to profit from their stumbles, all centering on the
meaning of the word service.

Meanings, surely? You are now using the words in a quite
different context to the one the discussion was about.

You mean that you admit that word meanings can depend on context?

That would be real progress!

FWIW I've always had pretty good service in hotels and
resturants in the UK, but I have only been in the the
more civilized parts that foreign tourists commonly
visit, like on the Heathrow side of London.

Visit the rest too. Go to Brick Lane where the
Bangladeshi immigrant community gathers and enjoy some of
the best curry you ever tasted. And of course go to the
bagel shop any time day or night for a salt beef bagel
second to none.

That would be your conceit, that no excellent Bengladeshi cooks ever set up
business in the USA. There are only about 10 times more Bengladeshi in the
UK than USA. Given that we never mistreated ours as you did, it is possible
that we have the far better selection.

As for service, it should be what you want it to be.
Personally I cringe when I go into a restaurant and
somebody I don't know announces "Hi, I'm Brian and I'm
going to be your waiter this evening". Two things - 1. I
couldn't give a crap what his name is and 2. I will
probably guess he is the waiter when he hands me a menu".

Yes, we are aware of how class conscious some in the UK are. We can actually
stomach the idea that the people who serve us are equals or sometimes even
our betters, merely following a different avocation. Therefore, their name
is important to us.

Apparently the attitude towards the primacy of the word
service is lost in other parts of the UK. Sad.

At this point, you're doing a better job than average of convincing me that
I'm right about the UK not getting the fullness of the concept of service.

"David" wrote in message

Arny takes his car in for a service.
On collection he is confronted with an invoice for $2600
thousand dollars.
"How much?" he exclaims in disbelief.

"Well sir, even though your car was probably only worth
$500, you asked for a service. There were various dents
and scratches on the bodywork, so the panels had to be
knocked out or replaced as necessary and a respray had to
be done. Also the seat mechanisms weren't working
properly so they had to be replaced. The CD player
wasn't working so we fitted a new one. There was a
slight tear in the vinyl roof so that was replaced too. The list goes on,
here Mr. Krueger, take a look."
"Wow, well in that case what a fantasic service, thank
you very much, here's the cheque."

He walks away a very content man and recommends the
mechanic to all his friends.

Your conceits are that:

(a) My car is only worth $500.

(b) I wouldn't do most such repairs myself.

(c) It is always folly to spend more than something's current worth to
repair it.

Try speaking the truth some time, if only to stretch your mouth in a useful
way.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:42:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:05:45 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

You fail to grasp that service is actually a very
generalized word. It includes both maintenance and
repair, and it includes many other things.

No, we are not failing to grasp.

The following paragraph may represent a new high in UKRA miscommunication. I
am talking about one word and you respond as if you were talking about 2
words:

We are quite clear about
the distinction. If they meant the same thing we wouldn't
need two words .


The two words | am referring to are service and repair. The same two
words we have been discussing all through this thread. Now do try to
keep up.

I guess that is another big difference between the UK and the USA. You act
like your dictionary has only one meaning for service, and our dictionaries
list something like 21 different meanings for the word!


Plenty of definitions, many of them useful. However that is all wide
of the point. We are discussing the specific difference between
service and repair, which you fail to grasp.

Of course from what I've heard about the UK attitude
towards service, whether in the electronics shop or the
coffee shop, I think I understand a lot of the confusion
that you guys are experiencing. No concept of service.
No service attitude.

What confusion would that be? We English (and apparently
Swedes too) understand the difference between service and
repair perfectly. The confusion obviously lies with those
who muddle them up.

In this context USA English indicates that repair is a subset of service.


This is uk.rec.audio. Nobody here cares how US English defines a word.
This is UK group that works in English English.

In the US we consider the "Service Industry" to be a
major business segment. We've profited well by educating
the rest of the world about the meaning of the word
service. Pity that it did not take better in the UK.

You are joking, right? Service in the US comes from
pimply teenagers more interested in dating than serving,
or superannuated grandmothers in unsuitable mini skirts
and support tights. I sigh with relief when I get back
here to be served by actual, real people.

The exclusion of teenagers and retirees from the set of legitimate providers
of service if not the entire human race seems to be another problem that you
struggle with.


Again you miss the point - get it totally backwards in fact. Over
here, waiting staff are drawn from the widest demographic. It is in
the US that they are typically part of an underclass - the poor
student, the penniless retired, the immigrant without benefit of green
card etc. So no, it is nothing to do with exclusion of teenagers over
here.

BTW it appears that we're going to seriously damage
Toyota in world markets because they did not adequately
learn the meaning of the word service from us. We
tried! To the world it looks like they did themselves
in. Our hands are clean but we are the ones most likely
to profit from their stumbles, all centering on the
meaning of the word service.

Meanings, surely? You are now using the words in a quite
different context to the one the discussion was about.

You mean that you admit that word meanings can depend on context?

That would be real progress!


It is what I have been telling you all along. In the context of
sending things away to be attended to, service and repair have totally
different meanings. It is you who have been insisting that they don't.

FWIW I've always had pretty good service in hotels and
resturants in the UK, but I have only been in the the
more civilized parts that foreign tourists commonly
visit, like on the Heathrow side of London.

Visit the rest too. Go to Brick Lane where the
Bangladeshi immigrant community gathers and enjoy some of
the best curry you ever tasted. And of course go to the
bagel shop any time day or night for a salt beef bagel
second to none.

That would be your conceit, that no excellent Bengladeshi cooks ever set up
business in the USA. There are only about 10 times more Bengladeshi in the
UK than USA. Given that we never mistreated ours as you did, it is possible
that we have the far better selection.


How did you get that from my reply? I was urging you to go further
afield than the Heathrow side of London. You probably won't get
murdered if you do. Everywhere in London is civilized, for a
reasonably broad definition of the word.

As for service, it should be what you want it to be.
Personally I cringe when I go into a restaurant and
somebody I don't know announces "Hi, I'm Brian and I'm
going to be your waiter this evening". Two things - 1. I
couldn't give a crap what his name is and 2. I will
probably guess he is the waiter when he hands me a menu".

Yes, we are aware of how class conscious some in the UK are. We can actually
stomach the idea that the people who serve us are equals or sometimes even
our betters, merely following a different avocation. Therefore, their name
is important to us.


See my reply above. We don't use an underclass for service, and I
personally never encounter class consciousness - unless I go to the US
and see how people need to dress to impress.

Apparently the attitude towards the primacy of the word
service is lost in other parts of the UK. Sad.

At this point, you're doing a better job than average of convincing me that
I'm right about the UK not getting the fullness of the concept of service.


And thus you have failed to grasp everything you have been told.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote


And thus you have failed to grasp everything you have been told.


I can't make up my mind whether Arny is being deliberately obtuse as a
wind-up, or genuinely fails to understand the thread. But he's made himself
look ridiculous whichever is true. I also never realised just what a typical
American he is with his blind belief in the American myth.

David.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:28:50 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote


And thus you have failed to grasp everything you have been told.


I can't make up my mind whether Arny is being deliberately obtuse as a
wind-up, or genuinely fails to understand the thread. But he's made himself
look ridiculous whichever is true. I also never realised just what a typical
American he is with his blind belief in the American myth.

David.


It is all a result of their extreme parochialism. I can't remember the
numbers, but I do remember being deeply shocked at how many of them
have never owned a passport, for example. It has become a culture in
which ignorance is lauded.

d

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
It is all a result of their extreme parochialism. I can't remember the
numbers, but I do remember being deeply shocked at how many of them
have never owned a passport, for example. It has become a culture in
which ignorance is lauded.

Especially how often the Hollywood myth of the US winning WW2 for 'us' is
trotted out.
Oh - and the vast amount of money they extracted from the UK for their
help is also conveniently forgotten.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Your conceits are that:

(a) My car is only worth $500.

Did you honestly think the figures were important?

(b) I wouldn't do most such repairs myself.

This is by the by.

(c) It is always folly to spend more than something's current worth to
repair it.

I was simply using the word service in the context that you think is
correct.

Try speaking the truth some time, if only to stretch your mouth in a
useful way.

Sorry Arny, I gave you the beneift of the doubt by thinking that you'd
realise that my post was not a factual history of past events.

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:28:50 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote


And thus you have failed to grasp everything you have been told.


I can't make up my mind whether Arny is being deliberately obtuse as a
wind-up, or genuinely fails to understand the thread. But he's made
himself
look ridiculous whichever is true. I also never realised just what a
typical
American he is with his blind belief in the American myth.

David.


It is all a result of their extreme parochialism. I can't remember the
numbers, but I do remember being deeply shocked at how many of them
have never owned a passport, for example.

A EU/USA comparison survey gave the percentage
of US citizens without a passport at 34%. This does not
include the 12 million illegal immigrants who have no citizenship
or passport entitlement.

Revealing too was the fact that 55 million had no bank
account or bank card, due to their inability to "understand
the complexity of the ATM"

Iain