dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

"notme" wrote in message
...
hello everyone i am in a lucky position as a relative left me all his
gear(before he departed for other shores) amplifiers with valves in
them the biggest being a beard 100, leak tl20, musical fidelity with
huge black knobs and separate power,scott 299, quad 2,quad33/303
(which i am using at the moment). although i have been mostly into my
ipod and its plugin amplifier, i can now hear a huge difference with
the records/cds he also left. he has used for years a pr of monitor
audio 352s and one of them has recently developed a rasping sound,
sorry to go on this brings me to my question as i am out of my dept
here.i have been looking around ebay etc fo a replacement pr of more
up to date speakers, i like the look of other monitor
audios,splendors,bo etc , in the specification it might have (for
amplifiers of at least 25 watts) i am a bit puzzled about this the
lowest power amplifier (leak tl20) i think is 10 w1tts and when i have
hocked it up to the 352 i have to be conscious of the neighbours, if
10 watts is that loud 25 watts would rightly have the neighbours
complaining, at the same time would like to have a nice sounding
speaker that i can match with the different amplifiers from time to
time. i have also a average size through lounge in a terraced house,
would the splendor/ monitor audio bests be too big or would they give
the range if needed. i want to make the right decision and dont want
to be changing to the latest model all the time
dilemma suggestions would be welcome

Apparently your style of posting has rattled a few cages......

There is no dilemma. The R352's were "Best Buys" of the 80's being
home turf products thus over-priced and nothing special.
It's been covered in other replies but watts are just numbers.
You could do a search on the subject, but speakers "represent a load"
to the amp, start with the search term: "Ampere's law".

The "load" will be badged up as something along the lines:
"Nominal 8ohms" or similar, But thats just a figure based on one set
of measurements to appease some marketiing requirement or other.
The "impedance trend" in the real world could bounce or dip, it's
just an "averaged" figure, which is not representative of real world
usage.
The sensitivity claim is again a figure supposedly to represent how
loud a speaker will go for 1 watt at one metre using one tone to
compare against rivals etc. In the space time continuum well it is
figures Jim, but not as we know it ..... In the real world.
There is no mystery about how speakers work, though there are
important factors to consider, we could go along the road of long
throw, frequency range, paper/fibre/metel cones blah blah blah.
But in your case if your current crop of ancient amps had no problem
pumping the amprers into the R352's then modern efficient units
will dance driven by the same amps.
If you like the look of the MA cabinets and want savings on shipping
costs for bulky boxes, then do what I suggested elsewhere in this
thread, replace the drive units, it's simple, all drive units are shaped
and sized to set standards.
You only have to be concerned with "matching" sensitivity of drives.
A variable crossover will be to discern what lumps of the bandwidth
is fed to which drive unit, - tweeter and woofer.
It's no mystery, it is sod all to do with how much they cost or who
gives what a best buy. You can do it yourself with spectacular results
all for approx 70 quid.

Do a search on following terms:
speaker impedance
speaker sensitivity
speaker efficiency
speaker sound pressure level (SPL)
speaker crossover
Here is a whole pile of video's about speakers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jr9QH0t3h4
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...dspeakers&aq=f

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 19:21:54 +0100, "Fed Up Lurker"
wrote:


"notme" wrote in message
.. .
hello everyone i am in a lucky position as a relative left me all his
gear(before he departed for other shores) amplifiers with valves in
them the biggest being a beard 100, leak tl20, musical fidelity with
huge black knobs and separate power,scott 299, quad 2,quad33/303
(which i am using at the moment). although i have been mostly into my
ipod and its plugin amplifier, i can now hear a huge difference with
the records/cds he also left. he has used for years a pr of monitor
audio 352s and one of them has recently developed a rasping sound,
sorry to go on this brings me to my question as i am out of my dept
here.i have been looking around ebay etc fo a replacement pr of more
up to date speakers, i like the look of other monitor
audios,splendors,bo etc , in the specification it might have (for
amplifiers of at least 25 watts) i am a bit puzzled about this the
lowest power amplifier (leak tl20) i think is 10 w1tts and when i have
hocked it up to the 352 i have to be conscious of the neighbours, if
10 watts is that loud 25 watts would rightly have the neighbours
complaining, at the same time would like to have a nice sounding
speaker that i can match with the different amplifiers from time to
time. i have also a average size through lounge in a terraced house,
would the splendor/ monitor audio bests be too big or would they give
the range if needed. i want to make the right decision and dont want
to be changing to the latest model all the time
dilemma suggestions would be welcome

Apparently your style of posting has rattled a few cages......

There is no dilemma. The R352's were "Best Buys" of the 80's being
home turf products thus over-priced and nothing special.
It's been covered in other replies but watts are just numbers.
You could do a search on the subject, but speakers "represent a load"
to the amp, start with the search term: "Ampere's law".

The "load" will be badged up as something along the lines:
"Nominal 8ohms" or similar, But thats just a figure based on one set
of measurements to appease some marketiing requirement or other.
The "impedance trend" in the real world could bounce or dip, it's
just an "averaged" figure, which is not representative of real world
usage.
The sensitivity claim is again a figure supposedly to represent how
loud a speaker will go for 1 watt at one metre using one tone to
compare against rivals etc. In the space time continuum well it is
figures Jim, but not as we know it ..... In the real world.
There is no mystery about how speakers work, though there are
important factors to consider, we could go along the road of long
throw, frequency range, paper/fibre/metel cones blah blah blah.
But in your case if your current crop of ancient amps had no problem
pumping the amprers into the R352's then modern efficient units
will dance driven by the same amps.
If you like the look of the MA cabinets and want savings on shipping
costs for bulky boxes, then do what I suggested elsewhere in this
thread, replace the drive units, it's simple, all drive units are shaped
and sized to set standards.
You only have to be concerned with "matching" sensitivity of drives.
A variable crossover will be to discern what lumps of the bandwidth
is fed to which drive unit, - tweeter and woofer.
It's no mystery, it is sod all to do with how much they cost or who
gives what a best buy. You can do it yourself with spectacular results
all for approx 70 quid.

Do a search on following terms:
speaker impedance
speaker sensitivity
speaker efficiency
speaker sound pressure level (SPL)
speaker crossover
Here is a whole pile of video's about speakers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jr9QH0t3h4
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...dspeakers&aq=f



Hello Fed Up Lurker

Very good post it was never my intention to rattle cages etc, but just
to enlist the help of the obviously experienced posters here, and if
I might say so I might not be so fluent as very rarely have I posted
to forums af any sort, but any criticisms I take on board as long as
they are not condescending, anon.
Shoot me down in flames if required, on the matter of replacement
woofers I have the idea (may be totally wrong) that when any quality
loudspeaker system I designed the volume, shape, tweeter spec, all
have to be considered and played around with in a sound negative room.
Crossovers are modified and the sound engineers try many drivers
before they finally indeed I believe monitor audio drivers are
specially made to their own spec so buying a replacement driver may
actually be a bit. chancy?
Might be better to hang the ex pence and go for another pair of
speakers
very interesting your you tube videos, had no idea they were available
i am a retired prototype wiremam maybe a new hobby i havent so far had
time for

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

"notme" wrote in message
...


Hello Fed Up Lurker

Very good post it was never my intention to rattle cages etc, but just
to enlist the help of the obviously experienced posters here, and if
I might say so I might not be so fluent as very rarely have I posted
to forums af any sort, but any criticisms I take on board as long as
they are not condescending, anon.
Shoot me down in flames if required, on the matter of replacement
woofers I have the idea (may be totally wrong) that when any quality
loudspeaker system I designed the volume, shape, tweeter spec, all
have to be considered and played around with in a sound negative room.
Crossovers are modified and the sound engineers try many drivers
before they finally indeed I believe monitor audio drivers are
specially made to their own spec so buying a replacement driver may
actually be a bit. chancy?
Might be better to hang the ex pence and go for another pair of
speakers
very interesting your you tube videos, had no idea they were available
i am a retired prototype wiremam maybe a new hobby i havent so far had
time for


Hi notme,
For your speakers you go the route you feel comfortable with.
Apologies for the immature pettiness displayed by some in this group,
most of them are clueless old biddies, so best to just shrug it off.
For me the major disappointment to how you were targeted started
by someone who is actually a professional who claims his aim is to
bring the hobby to more people, oh well sigh....
Good luck.

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

"notme" wrote in message
...
snip


Hello Fed Up Lurker

Very good post it was never my intention to rattle cages etc, but just
to enlist the help of the obviously experienced posters here, and if
I might say so I might not be so fluent as very rarely have I posted
to forums af any sort, but any criticisms I take on board as long as
they are not condescending, anon.
Shoot me down in flames if required, on the matter of replacement
woofers I have the idea (may be totally wrong) that when any quality
loudspeaker system I designed the volume, shape, tweeter spec, all
have to be considered and played around with in a sound negative room.
Crossovers are modified and the sound engineers try many drivers
before they finally indeed I believe monitor audio drivers are
specially made to their own spec so buying a replacement driver may
actually be a bit. chancy?
Might be better to hang the ex pence and go for another pair of
speakers
very interesting your you tube videos, had no idea they were available
i am a retired prototype wiremam maybe a new hobby i havent so far had
time for


Hi notme,
For your speakers you go the route you feel comfortable with.
Apologies for the immature pettiness displayed by some in this group,
most of them are clueless old biddies, so best to just shrug it off.
For me the major disappointment to how you were targeted started
by someone who is actually a professional who claims his aim is to
bring the hobby to more people, oh well sigh....
Good luck.

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

In article ,
Fed Up Lurker wrote:
For your speakers you go the route you feel comfortable with.
Apologies for the immature pettiness displayed by some in this group,
most of them are clueless old biddies, so best to just shrug it off.
For me the major disappointment to how you were targeted started
by someone who is actually a professional who claims his aim is to
bring the hobby to more people, oh well sigh....

Interesting that the last post from Mr notme would not IMHO have attracted
any such reply regarding its construction.

Usenet like any 'club' has its conventions and anyone who contravenes them
is likely to attract adverse comment. Like to those who top post.

--
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:33:26 +0100, "Fed Up Lurker"
wrote:

"notme" wrote in message
.. .
snip


Hello Fed Up Lurker

Very good post it was never my intention to rattle cages etc, but just
to enlist the help of the obviously experienced posters here, and if
I might say so I might not be so fluent as very rarely have I posted
to forums af any sort, but any criticisms I take on board as long as
they are not condescending, anon.
Shoot me down in flames if required, on the matter of replacement
woofers I have the idea (may be totally wrong) that when any quality
loudspeaker system I designed the volume, shape, tweeter spec, all
have to be considered and played around with in a sound negative room.
Crossovers are modified and the sound engineers try many drivers
before they finally indeed I believe monitor audio drivers are
specially made to their own spec so buying a replacement driver may
actually be a bit. chancy?
Might be better to hang the ex pence and go for another pair of
speakers
very interesting your you tube videos, had no idea they were available
i am a retired prototype wiremam maybe a new hobby i havent so far had
time for


Hi notme,
For your speakers you go the route you feel comfortable with.
Apologies for the immature pettiness displayed by some in this group,
most of them are clueless old biddies, so best to just shrug it off.
For me the major disappointment to how you were targeted started
by someone who is actually a professional who claims his aim is to
bring the hobby to more people, oh well sigh....
Good luck.


i would like to sign off now,and thank some of the less prissy folks
for answering (back to my old ways). usenet posting, will sign on to
an open university coarse if available, lol. there are many more
questions i would like to ask, quite a lot of valves and avo
tester(not here),its time to get back to my watchlist.( AIM)
over n out

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

In article , notme
wrote:

i would like to sign off now,and thank some of the less prissy folks

althoughyoumaywanttodismissitasprissysomeofusthink itmakessenseto
considerthereaderswhenpostinginparticulartoconside rthemwhenasking
forhelporinformationusenetisnotawriteonlymediumand whileyoumayfind
ithardtowriteclearlysomeotherswhohaveinfoyouwouldf indusefulmayalso
findreadingbadlyformattedtextapitastillyouareasfre easanyoneelsetowrit
easyouchoosejustastherestofusarefreetostruggletore adwhatiswrittenor
nottherealityisithinkthatyoudontneedtogototheoutol earnhowtowriteinaw
ayotherscanreadnortolearnhowtobepoliteandconsidera te.

slaintejim :-)

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

over n out

Pedants mode on: "over" means "I have finished speaking and require a
reply". "Out" means "I have finished speaking and do NOT require a reply".
Therefore "over and out" has entirely contradictory meanings. Constantly
misused in WW2 films since the forties.

Probably won't bother the OP much, I suppose.

GMacK

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

Geoff Mackenzie wrote:

over n out

Pedants mode on: "over" means "I have finished speaking
and require a reply". "Out" means "I have finished
speaking and do NOT require a reply". Therefore "over and
out" has entirely contradictory meanings. Constantly
misused in WW2 films since the forties.

Probably won't bother the OP much, I suppose.

All that usage in films has established "over and out" as a
bona fide expression, surely? If the OP had just written
"out" I wouldn't have known what he meant.

Maybe it makes sense if you take it to mean "I'll still be
listening but shan't reply"

Here's a paradox:

http://www.answers.com/topic/over-and-out

Reminds me of "This statement is not true".

Or perhaps it actually means "an oxymoron", as in "Microsoft
Works is over and out"?

Then there's:

http://dictionary.pokerzone.com/Over+and+Out

Finally:

http://www.internetslang.com/OAO.asp

I might add that the OP is quite a good writer. In a couple
of paragraphs he has established a character in all
essential details, baited us with a list of desirable audio
gear, and hung it all on the device of a rhetorical
question. Perhaps formula stuff you might expect in a
mediocre novel or a magazine article, but an impressive
contrivance all the same, IMHO.

Maybe his attenuated grammar is normal in financial markets?
Otherwise it doesn't quite fit with the rest of his persona.

Ian

dilemma, speaker decision for different amplifiers
 

On 23/08/2010 11:12 p.m., Jim Lesurf wrote:
In , notme
wrote:

i would like to sign off now,and thank some of the less prissy folks

althoughyoumaywanttodismissitasprissysomeofusthink itmakessenseto
considerthereaderswhenpostinginparticulartoconside rthemwhenasking
forhelporinformationusenetisnotawriteonlymediumand whileyoumayfind
ithardtowriteclearlysomeotherswhohaveinfoyouwouldf indusefulmayalso
findreadingbadlyformattedtextapitastillyouareasfre easanyoneelsetowrit
easyouchoosejustastherestofusarefreetostruggletore adwhatiswrittenor
nottherealityisithinkthatyoudontneedtogototheoutol earnhowtowriteinaw
ayotherscanreadnortolearnhowtobepoliteandconsidera te.

slaintejim :-)

Nice one Jim.:)
As an aside,I hope your PHD students didn't write their assignments in that
style. I can see it now -- FAILED!

Mike