"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion item"
again.

USB turntables seem to be quite a "hot" line.

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really. I was there the first time round, and not just as a
consumer:-) I know just how hard it is to master a disc as
opposed to a CD, and the problems involved in making a
recording with delays, and DT that can be cut to disk
without problems.

I'm also fascinated by obsolete audio technolgy, particularly those used
with pictures, such as the 4-track magnetic striped system used with 35mm
film from 1953 to the late 1970s. Far more fascinating than mere vinyl,
IMO
:-).

Yes you are right. But your 35mm mag stripe material is not
available to most people, as are LPs are from the charity
shop, and a 35mm MWA( Albrecht) recorder/reproducer
is pretty hard to find too:-)


Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion item"
again.

USB turntables seem to be quite a "hot" line.

More "warm" than "hot" I'd say :-)

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really.

That's not the impression I get from reading your posts here ;-)

I was there the first time round, and not just as a
consumer:-) I know just how hard it is to master a disc as
opposed to a CD, and the problems involved in making a
recording with delays, and DT that can be cut to disk
without problems.

I'm also fascinated by obsolete audio technolgy, particularly those used
with pictures, such as the 4-track magnetic striped system used with 35mm
film from 1953 to the late 1970s. Far more fascinating than mere vinyl,
IMO
:-).

Yes you are right. But your 35mm mag stripe material is not
available to most people, as are LPs are from the charity
shop, and a 35mm MWA( Albrecht) recorder/reproducer
is pretty hard to find too:-)


It's precisely the inaccessibility of these technologies that makes them
fascinating IMO. Apart from 4-track "CinemaScope" mag stereo I'm also
interested in the elaborate "Fantasound" system used to record and reproduce
the soundtrack of Fantasia, for which no original recordings or sound prints
survive (the oldest surviving version of the Fantasia soundtrack is a 1955
vintage magnetic film copy). And from another technology I'm also fascinated
by the pre-war Baird 240-line TV system used on alternate weeks at Ally
Pally from Sept 1936 to Feb 1937. For which not only does no hardware
survive, but most of the documentation was destroyed in the Crystal Palace
fire of 1936.

But I accept that I'm unusual in finding this stuff interesting. Most
people, especially young people IME, couldn't care less about vintage
audio-video technology. And I am far from convinced that "many" people are
fascinated by vinyl.


David.

In article , David Looser
wrote:

It's precisely the inaccessibility of these technologies that makes them
fascinating IMO. Apart from 4-track "CinemaScope" mag stereo I'm also
interested in the elaborate "Fantasound" system used to record and
reproduce the soundtrack of Fantasia, for which no original recordings
or sound prints survive (the oldest surviving version of the Fantasia
soundtrack is a 1955 vintage magnetic film copy).

That is another classic example of the perils of our current copyright
situation. That something we can now regard as a 'work of art' or of very
great interest to later generations has been 'lost' or 'degraded' due to
the lack of care of those who owned the copyright.

The film studios are a nice case of this for film after film.

Witness also the way the BBC threw out or wiped so much "because no-one
would ever want to hear it again". Only now to be cursed for doing so.

One of the advantages of 'home recordings' and people making copies in
other formats is that it helps protect against such careless losses.

Note also the interesting recent example where hundreds of old 'Paul
Temple' radio programmes have been re-found. The BBC had no idea these
still existed - but in Australia they'd known they had copies all along.
:-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really (snip)

That's not the impression I get from reading your posts here ;-)

LOL:-) Well, I have a large collection of both
vinyl and CD but I cannot resist "putting a spanner
in thew works" now and again on anti-vinyl groups
such as this one. It's fun to see the man from Detroit
turn apoplectic, and start to rant and scream about
"vinyl bigots", etc etc:-)

I look after my LP record collection with care, and clean the
surfaces often. I have two high-grade turntables of my own,
EMT948 and 401/SME3012/V15III and these give me
very good results indeed. Due to the huge amount of music
not available on CD, I cannot possibly even consider life
without a turntable.

Yes you are right. But your 35mm mag stripe material is not
available to most people, as are LPs are from the charity
shop, and a 35mm MWA( Albrecht) recorder/reproducer
is pretty hard to find too:-)


It's precisely the inaccessibility of these technologies that makes them
fascinating IMO. Apart from 4-track "CinemaScope" mag stereo I'm also
interested in the elaborate "Fantasound" system used to record and
reproduce the soundtrack of Fantasia, for which no original recordings or
sound prints survive (the oldest surviving version of the Fantasia
soundtrack is a 1955 vintage magnetic film copy).

You seem, to share a parallel interest with a former colleague
of mine, now working as an AD in TV, who is very knowledgeable
on the subject of Fantasia from both the technical and the artistic angle.

And from another technology I'm also fascinated by the pre-war Baird
240-line TV system used on alternate weeks at Ally Pally from Sept 1936 to
Feb 1937. For which not only does no hardware survive, but most of the
documentation was destroyed in the Crystal Palace fire of 1936.

Do you know people with a similar interest? Are there discussion
groups for such subjects? It an important part of the British
broadcasting heritage.

But I accept that I'm unusual in finding this stuff interesting.

Probably not as unusual as you may think. Even in a smallish
city like HKI I know two people who have 16mm projectors
at home, in purpose-built rooms. One of them is a great
Bogart buff, the other is fascinated with Hitchcock. Both have
a huge collection of films. Hitchcock's composer, Bernard
Hermann was one of my tutors while I was in the UK, so
I watch these films with interest.

Most people, especially young people IME, couldn't care less about vintage
audio-video technology. And I am far from convinced that "many" people are
fascinated by vinyl.

I come into contact with large numbers of young musicians.
There is a great deal of interest in British popular music of
the 1960s. These young players scoured the second hand
shops looking for music in which they are interested. It didn't
take them long to get hooked on vinyl. I am on the committee
of a "gramophone society". We have recently agreed to make
our premises and equipment available to a group of you music
students who want to listen to their music on the best possible
equipment available to them. I find this trend both interesting
and encouraging.

It's a sunny but "crisp" morning- -24.5C. I don't think I shall
be taking lunch in the garden. I have lit a roaring log fire -
no gig till this evening:-)

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really (snip)

That's not the impression I get from reading your posts here ;-)

It's fun to see the man from Detroit
turn apoplectic, and start to rant and scream about
"vinyl bigots", etc etc:-)

Is it? seems pretty childish behaviour to me.

I look after my LP record collection with care, and clean the
surfaces often. I have two high-grade turntables of my own,
EMT948 and 401/SME3012/V15III and these give me
very good results indeed. Due to the huge amount of music
not available on CD, I cannot possibly even consider life
without a turntable.

What about the huge amount of music not available on vinyl?


You seem, to share a parallel interest with a former colleague
of mine, now working as an AD in TV, who is very knowledgeable
on the subject of Fantasia from both the technical and the artistic angle.

I first saw Fantasia at the age of six. It made a huge impression on me at
the time (esp. the Rite of Spring and Night on Bald Mountain sequences) and
I have been mildly obsessed with it ever since.

And from another technology I'm also fascinated by the pre-war Baird
240-line TV system used on alternate weeks at Ally Pally from Sept 1936 to
Feb 1937. For which not only does no hardware survive, but most of the
documentation was destroyed in the Crystal Palace fire of 1936.

Do you know people with a similar interest? Are there discussion
groups for such subjects?

Yes and yes.

It an important part of the British
broadcasting heritage.

I agree, it's a shame that the BBC doesn't. The old TV studios at AP would
be an ideal place for a well-funded museum of TV broadcasting. But neither
the BBC nor any other organisation wants to stump up the funds.

But I accept that I'm unusual in finding this stuff interesting.

Probably not as unusual as you may think. Even in a smallish
city like HKI I know two people who have 16mm projectors
at home, in purpose-built rooms.

LOL! two people in a city hardly counts as more than an insignificant
minority!

I know someone who lives near me who has a 35mm cinema projector installed
in his modest terrace house. The projector is in what was meant to be the
dining room with a port cut through into the living room where the screen
is. This projector is fitted with a replay head for 4-track mag sound, and
he even has a striped 35mm print of a feature film that he can run on it.
Goodness knows how he managed to acquire that, better not to ask ;-).
..

Most people, especially young people IME, couldn't care less about
vintage
audio-video technology. And I am far from convinced that "many" people
are
fascinated by vinyl.

I come into contact with large numbers of young musicians.
There is a great deal of interest in British popular music of
the 1960s. These young players scoured the second hand
shops looking for music in which they are interested. It didn't
take them long to get hooked on vinyl.

That would depend on the sort of music they are interested in. You talk a
lot about jazz, and I guess that's an area where vinyl retains some
significance. In the village in which I live there are two families with
musically talented children, in one household the turntable is stored in a
junk room and, judging by the dust is little used, the other doesn't have a
turntable at all (they recently asked me to transfer a few LPs they owned to
CD-R). But in both cases the major interest is classical music, and five of
the six young people involved are girls, who are rather less likely to
become geeky about vintage replay technology.


It's a sunny but "crisp" morning- -24.5C. I don't think I shall
be taking lunch in the garden. I have lit a roaring log fire -
no gig till this evening:-)


It's a miserable day here today, not that cold (4C), but dull, overcast and
misty.
I'm not having lunch in the garden either, but I'll wait until later to
light the woodburner.

David.

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:


... but I cannot resist "putting a spanner in thew works" now and again
on anti-vinyl groups such as this one.

Must say I do find that comment weird. So far as I can see, individuals
here make all kinds of comments about 'vinyl'. Describing the *group* as
"anti-vinyl" does seem to me to say more about your thinking than the
group.

Is it "anti vinyl" for someone to say they tend to prefer something else
for reasons they state?

Does an individual writing that make the *group* "anti vinyl"?

If your responses are "yes" then I can only repeat that it seems an odd
view and state of mind to me.

Perhaps you have not noticed how I (and others) have criticised commercial
*CDs* as well for their faults and imperfections As with LP, due to the
witlessness of those making them. The distinction being that with LP the
problems ususally arose at the time of physical pressing or later. With CD
it is the dim bulbs who level compress the music to death before it even
gets onto the physical CD on sale. Does this make me "anti aluminium"? :-)

Geting back to the *topic* of this thread I was happy just to comment on
the Technics DD turntables relative to other turntables. But others
introduced other points. e.g. you added in a comment about my hearing the
clicks and pops on the LPs I used to buy. Was it then "anti vinyl" for me
to comment on that?

As I think I explained, in general my preference for other carriers was due
in part to audibly poorly made LPs rather than 'turntables'. FWIW My
general personal experience is that any decent audio system tends to be
more capable than a lot of the LPs/CDs/broadcasts served up for the public.
Presumably the vendors don't care and assume most buyers don't have decent
equipment or know or care.


I look after my LP record collection with care, and clean the surfaces
often. I have two high-grade turntables of my own, EMT948 and
401/SME3012/V15III and these give me very good results indeed. Due to
the huge amount of music not available on CD, I cannot possibly even
consider life without a turntable.

I own and use one LP playing system (as required) but find that I have
plenty to enjoy on CD or from the BBC or from occasional DVDs of concerts.
So I very rarely bother to get a 'new' (to me) LP. So what?

I come into contact with large numbers of young musicians. There is a
great deal of interest in British popular music of the 1960s. These
young players scoured the second hand shops looking for music in which
they are interested. It didn't take them long to get hooked on vinyl.

Again, very odd language to say they get "hooked" on "vinyl" rather than
*music*. Curious displacement thinking to have a 'fetish' for the container
rather than the contained. :-)

But I guess it is harmless enjoyment - unless it becomes like being
'hooked' on other materials which end up costing you a lot of money and
lost friends and family. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 18/02/2011 09:25, Jim Lesurf wrote:
HACK
I own and use one LP playing system (as required) but find that I have
plenty to enjoy on CD or from the BBC or from occasional DVDs of concerts.
So I very rarely bother to get a 'new' (to me) LP. So what?

Yeah, so what! Why do you bother to post this drivel?

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
USB turntables seem to be quite a "hot" line.

You obviously don't see Maplin 'fliers'. They can't shift the ones they
have.

--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/03/2011 10:42, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Iain wrote:
USB turntables seem to be quite a "hot" line.

You obviously don't see Maplin 'fliers'. They can't shift the ones they
have.


I did wonder when they'd reach saturation.

I was round a friend's house the other day and her 16 year old daughter
has just discovered records - gave her a few duplicates I had, Clash,
Nina Simone, sort of mainstream stuff I like.

Two things - she knew the music. That quite surprised me. Couldn't quite
figure out whether she liked it, but that brings me on to the second thing.

When I asked her why on earth she bothers faffing about with records she
didn't seem that sure. The covers, certainly. She also said she liked
the sound, but couldn't explain why/what which was all the more baffling
because her record player's one of those 70s radiogram type affairs with
a 'rich' tone.

Youngsters today, eh? :-)

Rob

"Rob" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 03/03/2011 10:42, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Iain wrote:
USB turntables seem to be quite a "hot" line.

You obviously don't see Maplin 'fliers'. They can't shift the ones they
have.


I did wonder when they'd reach saturation.


Who thinks of Maplins when they go to buy a turntable?



I was round a friend's house the other day and her 16 year old daughter
has just discovered records - gave her a few duplicates I had, Clash, Nina
Simone, sort of mainstream stuff I like.

Two things - she knew the music. That quite surprised me. Couldn't quite
figure out whether she liked it, but that brings me on to the second
thing.

When I asked her why on earth she bothers faffing about with records she
didn't seem that sure. The covers, certainly. She also said she liked the
sound, but couldn't explain why/what which was all the more baffling
because her record player's one of those 70s radiogram type affairs with a
'rich' tone.

Youngsters today, eh? :-)


As I have said elsewhere, I recently saw summat on the box where youngsters
expressed their interest in LPs and also said they preferred the sound but I
can't remember what it was! I remember someone said they liked to be able to
physically 'hold the music' and expressed an opinion that downloads didn't
offer anything like the same satisfaction..??