Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion item"
again.

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

I'm also fascinated by obsolete audio technolgy, particularly those used
with pictures, such as the 4-track magnetic striped system used with 35mm
film from 1953 to the late 1970s. Far more fascinating than mere vinyl, IMO
:-).

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion item"
again.

Urban Outfitters is a semi-fashionable store that sells clothes,
furnishings, etc to college students in the US. I was surprised to find
a small section of the shop given over to such 'obsolete' items as Holga
cameras, cheap turntables and high quality lps.

Stephen

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

I'm also fascinated by obsolete audio technolgy, particularly those used
with pictures, such as the 4-track magnetic striped system used with 35mm
film from 1953 to the late 1970s. Far more fascinating than mere vinyl, IMO
:-).

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion item"
again.

Urban Outfitters is a semi-fashionable store

What does "semi-fashionable" mean?

that sells clothes,
furnishings, etc to college students in the US. I was surprised to find
a small section of the shop given over to such 'obsolete' items as Holga
cameras, cheap turntables and high quality lps.

What's a "Holga" camera? Come to that, what is a "high quality" LP?

There are things that have a cult following, that doesn't make them
"fashionable".

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

On 16/02/2011 20:23, David Looser wrote:

What does "semi-fashionable" mean?

As you're obviously *semi-literate* you'll probably never know.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

What do you mean by "use as you choose", Jim.

I mean that they provide the 'music' in a form like LPCM wave or Flac with
no DRM. They provide you with whatever sample rate and bitdepth you
choose.
And you are then free to use that as you choose. So might both have a
96k/24bit version to play on any computer-based system you own, or
generate
DVDs to play on your own players, or CDs, or make mp3s or aacs or whatever
*you* use for your *own* listening. An end to 'now buy another version'.

Wouldn't it be nice? Unfortunately as far as the copyright owners are
concerned their copyrights are assets to be milked. If they can make you pay
again and again for the same work why should they allow you to "use the
material as you choose"?

IMO the law of copyright is far too heavily weighted in the direction of the
copyright owners. I'm not justifying piracy (meaning the commercial
exploitation of another's work without permission) but I feel that the
present situation, where copyright owners can impose any restrictions they
like on your use of the legal copy you have bought goes too far. Have you
seen the list of limitations of use on DVDs? amongst the prohibitions is "no
lending". So you can't even legally lend a DVD you have bought to a friend.

I recently ordered a copy of an article from a 1941 issue of the JSMPTE via
the British Library. I was charged £10 for the copyright, over and above the
library fee, for a 7 page 70 year old article. It was delivered by Secure
Electronic Delivery, which means I could see it on their server, and print
it off, once, but not download it. I complained about this to the Library,
and mentioned that I had re-scanned the print-out to give myself a "soft"
copy. I received a stern rebuke from the Library's copyright dept who
pointed to the small print that said I was not allowed to store the document
in any electronic form. I'm afraid my reaction was not to apologise, but to
tell him that I thought the restriction was utterly unreasonable. Frankly,
what harm does it do to the copyright owner how I choose to store a
document?

No DRM or 'rights management'. They just get in the way of honest users,
and don't actually stop those seriously intent on piracy.

Agreed 100%. Copyright owners have long wanted the "magic bullet" that will
prevent others from copying their material, but the hackers always win. The
only long-term winners from DRM are the technology companies who convince
media companies to use their DRM technology.

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"hunter" wrote in message
...
On 16/02/2011 20:23, David Looser wrote:

What does "semi-fashionable" mean?

As you're obviously *semi-literate* you'll probably never know.

Well, well, another smart-alec whose only use of newsgroups is to insult
others.

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion item"
again.

Urban Outfitters is a semi-fashionable store

What does "semi-fashionable" mean?

Not "high fashion". It's meant to be hip and has mock-vintage style
goods.

that sells clothes,
furnishings, etc to college students in the US. I was surprised to find
a small section of the shop given over to such 'obsolete' items as Holga
cameras, cheap turntables and high quality lps.

What's a "Holga" camera?

It's a cheap film camera that yields distorted but pleasing photos.

Come to that, what is a "high quality" LP?

High priced, 180 gram, expensive packaging (gatefolds, etc).

There are things that have a cult following, that doesn't make them
"fashionable".

In this case, lps and turntables are part of the overall hipster,
faux-vintage style.

Stephen

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion item"
again.

USB turntables seem to be quite a "hot" line.

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really. I was there the first time round, and not just as a
consumer:-) I know just how hard it is to master a disc as
opposed to a CD, and the problems involved in making a
recording with delays, and DT that can be cut to disk
without problems.

I'm also fascinated by obsolete audio technolgy, particularly those used
with pictures, such as the 4-track magnetic striped system used with 35mm
film from 1953 to the late 1970s. Far more fascinating than mere vinyl,
IMO
:-).

Yes you are right. But your 35mm mag stripe material is not
available to most people, as are LPs are from the charity
shop, and a 35mm MWA( Albrecht) recorder/reproducer
is pretty hard to find too:-)


Iain

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article , David Looser
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

What do you mean by "use as you choose", Jim.

I mean that they provide the 'music' in a form like LPCM wave or Flac
with no DRM. They provide you with whatever sample rate and bitdepth
you choose. And you are then free to use that as you choose. So might
both have a 96k/24bit version to play on any computer-based system you
own, or generate DVDs to play on your own players, or CDs, or make
mp3s or aacs or whatever *you* use for your *own* listening. An end to
'now buy another version'.

Wouldn't it be nice? Unfortunately as far as the copyright owners are
concerned their copyrights are assets to be milked. If they can make you
pay again and again for the same work why should they allow you to "use
the material as you choose"?

I agree that is the attitude that many clearly have. The reality, though,
is that it simply causes many people to switch to pirating and regarding
*any* payment as something to be avoided. So the problem is in the *if*
statement you used "*if* they can *make* you..."

The reality is that with music, they often can't. Now I *don't* personally
make loads of copies of any music and make them available 'free' for
others. But it is clear that many people *do* this.

The 'media companies' have been trying to stop water that runs downhill
from reaching the bottom of the hill for decades. Maybe they will wake up
and realise their attitude is *not* working before they go bust. Maybe they
won't. If not, I doubt most will miss then *if* the music continues to be
available. And it *will* - either in pirate versions that pay no-one
anything, or by methods more like the ones I described that *do* pass some
money on to the artists, etc.

IMO the law of copyright is far too heavily weighted in the direction of
the copyright owners.

I agree. It is a symptom of something that also features in Iain's response
to what I said. The companies confuse the container with the contained. You
want to buy the *music*. They want to sell you the ability to hear it via
an LP, a CD, a DVD, a...

Decades ago they could easily acheive this. Now they can't. So far as I can
see the decline of their big incomes are down to their not facing this
simple reality.

I recently ordered a copy of an article from a 1941 issue of the JSMPTE
via the British Library. I was charged £10 for the copyright, over and
above the library fee, for a 7 page 70 year old article. It was
delivered by Secure Electronic Delivery, which means I could see it on
their server, and print it off, once, but not download it. I complained
about this to the Library, and mentioned that I had re-scanned the
print-out to give myself a "soft" copy. I received a stern rebuke from
the Library's copyright dept who pointed to the small print that said I
was not allowed to store the document in any electronic form. I'm afraid
my reaction was not to apologise, but to tell him that I thought the
restriction was utterly unreasonable. Frankly, what harm does it do to
the copyright owner how I choose to store a document?

Again, I agree. Note also that quite often the creators of works in places
like journals or magazines either were paid nothing, or got a lump sum. So
they lose nothing if others much later copy the work *because they can't
get a legitimate copy at anything like a reasonable cost in time or effort
or cash*.

Personally, I'd prefer a change to copyright law that essentially gave the
publisher the 'fish or cut bait' choice after, say, a decade or two from
initial creation.

i.e. Anyone could request the publisher make a copy available at a cost in
line with the price during its original on-sale in-stock period (with
inflation allowed). If they failed to do this within a year, *anyone* else
could make a copy and sell at that price. Then offer a small percentage to
the those who owned the initial rights - or the creators. Take it or leave
it.

One of the worst aspects of the current are the 'orphan works' which no-one
dare republish for fear someone who is currently untracable will pop up and
demand 'damages' later on. Another is big companies who keep shedloads of
'rights to works' just to keep control of what is available to compete with
what they *do* publish and as 'captial' to flog to one another. Does the
creators and would-be customers no good at all.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion
item"
again.

Urban Outfitters is a semi-fashionable store

What does "semi-fashionable" mean?

Not "high fashion". It's meant to be hip and has mock-vintage style
goods.

You need to be careful with the word "fashion" here. The term "high-fashion"
comes from the world of clothing, it cannot be used in any other context. I
think what you are trying to suggest is that the goods this store sells have
a cult following.

that sells clothes,
furnishings, etc to college students in the US. I was surprised to find
a small section of the shop given over to such 'obsolete' items as
Holga
cameras, cheap turntables and high quality lps.

What's a "Holga" camera?

It's a cheap film camera that yields distorted but pleasing photos.

Must be an American thing.

Come to that, what is a "high quality" LP?

High priced, 180 gram, expensive packaging (gatefolds, etc).

Ah, I wondered whether you meant the content was "high quality". I assume
that these LPs are new, not classic.

There are things that have a cult following, that doesn't make them
"fashionable".

In this case, lps and turntables are part of the overall hipster,
faux-vintage style.

Like I said, a cult following.

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion
item"
again.

Urban Outfitters is a semi-fashionable store

What does "semi-fashionable" mean?

Not "high fashion". It's meant to be hip and has mock-vintage style
goods.

You need to be careful with the word "fashion" here. The term "high-fashion"
comes from the world of clothing, it cannot be used in any other context. I
think what you are trying to suggest is that the goods this store sells have
a cult following.

No, I don't; yes, it can; and under your definition anything fashionable
has a cult following.

that sells clothes,
furnishings, etc to college students in the US. I was surprised to find
a small section of the shop given over to such 'obsolete' items as
Holga
cameras, cheap turntables and high quality lps.

What's a "Holga" camera?

It's a cheap film camera that yields distorted but pleasing photos.

Must be an American thing.

Chinese.

Come to that, what is a "high quality" LP?

High priced, 180 gram, expensive packaging (gatefolds, etc).

Ah, I wondered whether you meant the content was "high quality". I assume
that these LPs are new, not classic.

New lps, mostly 'classic' titles. The quality of the lps was odd
considering the quality of the turntables on which one would presumably
play them.

There are things that have a cult following, that doesn't make them
"fashionable".

In this case, lps and turntables are part of the overall hipster,
faux-vintage style.

Like I said, a cult following.

Or, "Fashion, a general term for a currently popular style or practice,
especially in clothing, foot wear or accessories."

Stephen

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

If it comes down to "the fashion item to have" then turntables are
a much stronger contender.

Really? I *very* much doubt that turntables will ever be a "fashion item"
again.

USB turntables seem to be quite a "hot" line.

More "warm" than "hot" I'd say :-)

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really.

That's not the impression I get from reading your posts here ;-)

I was there the first time round, and not just as a
consumer:-) I know just how hard it is to master a disc as
opposed to a CD, and the problems involved in making a
recording with delays, and DT that can be cut to disk
without problems.

I'm also fascinated by obsolete audio technolgy, particularly those used
with pictures, such as the 4-track magnetic striped system used with 35mm
film from 1953 to the late 1970s. Far more fascinating than mere vinyl,
IMO
:-).

Yes you are right. But your 35mm mag stripe material is not
available to most people, as are LPs are from the charity
shop, and a 35mm MWA( Albrecht) recorder/reproducer
is pretty hard to find too:-)


It's precisely the inaccessibility of these technologies that makes them
fascinating IMO. Apart from 4-track "CinemaScope" mag stereo I'm also
interested in the elaborate "Fantasound" system used to record and reproduce
the soundtrack of Fantasia, for which no original recordings or sound prints
survive (the oldest surviving version of the Fantasia soundtrack is a 1955
vintage magnetic film copy). And from another technology I'm also fascinated
by the pre-war Baird 240-line TV system used on alternate weeks at Ally
Pally from Sept 1936 to Feb 1937. For which not only does no hardware
survive, but most of the documentation was destroyed in the Crystal Palace
fire of 1936.

But I accept that I'm unusual in finding this stuff interesting. Most
people, especially young people IME, couldn't care less about vintage
audio-video technology. And I am far from convinced that "many" people are
fascinated by vinyl.


David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:



Like I said, a cult following.

Or, "Fashion, a general term for a currently popular style or practice,
especially in clothing, foot wear or accessories."


Indeed, note the phrase "currently popular". That a shop that appeals to a
narrow customer base sells vinyl does not mean that vinyl is "currently
popular".

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:



Like I said, a cult following.

Or, "Fashion, a general term for a currently popular style or practice,
especially in clothing, foot wear or accessories."


Indeed, note the phrase "currently popular". That a shop that appeals to a
narrow customer base sells vinyl does not mean that vinyl is "currently
popular".

That wasn't the question. Lps are part of hipster fashion. You don't see
haute couture on the street nearly as often as hipster wear but they're
both 'fashion.'

Stephen

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article , David Looser
wrote:

It's precisely the inaccessibility of these technologies that makes them
fascinating IMO. Apart from 4-track "CinemaScope" mag stereo I'm also
interested in the elaborate "Fantasound" system used to record and
reproduce the soundtrack of Fantasia, for which no original recordings
or sound prints survive (the oldest surviving version of the Fantasia
soundtrack is a 1955 vintage magnetic film copy).

That is another classic example of the perils of our current copyright
situation. That something we can now regard as a 'work of art' or of very
great interest to later generations has been 'lost' or 'degraded' due to
the lack of care of those who owned the copyright.

The film studios are a nice case of this for film after film.

Witness also the way the BBC threw out or wiped so much "because no-one
would ever want to hear it again". Only now to be cursed for doing so.

One of the advantages of 'home recordings' and people making copies in
other formats is that it helps protect against such careless losses.

Note also the interesting recent example where hundreds of old 'Paul
Temple' radio programmes have been re-found. The BBC had no idea these
still existed - but in Australia they'd known they had copies all along.
:-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:



Like I said, a cult following.

Or, "Fashion, a general term for a currently popular style or practice,
especially in clothing, foot wear or accessories."


Indeed, note the phrase "currently popular". That a shop that appeals to
a
narrow customer base sells vinyl does not mean that vinyl is "currently
popular".

That wasn't the question.

It was.

Lps are part of hipster fashion.

Are they? You have stated that a shop that sells "hipster fashion"also sells
LPs. But that doesn't necessarily mean that LPs are *part* of that fashion.
Also the origanal claim was that turntables would become "fashionable",
nothing there about "hipster fashion" (whatever that is, as far as I was
aware the word "hipster" refered to a style of jeans). Being fashionable
amongst a narrow group doesn't equal "being fashionable".

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:



Like I said, a cult following.

Or, "Fashion, a general term for a currently popular style or practice,
especially in clothing, foot wear or accessories."


Indeed, note the phrase "currently popular". That a shop that appeals to
a
narrow customer base sells vinyl does not mean that vinyl is "currently
popular".

That wasn't the question.

It was.

I was quibbling about your contention that turntables wouldn't be part
of fashion again

Lps are part of hipster fashion.

Are they? You have stated that a shop that sells "hipster fashion"also sells
LPs. But that doesn't necessarily mean that LPs are *part* of that fashion.
Also the origanal claim was that turntables would become "fashionable",
nothing there about "hipster fashion" (whatever that is, as far as I was
aware the word "hipster" refered to a style of jeans). Being fashionable
amongst a narrow group doesn't equal "being fashionable".

Your quibbles are logically valid but factually incorrect, except for
the proposition that "being fashionable" doesn't equal "being
fashionable" because of an arbitrarily exclusion.

http://www.timeout.com/london/around..._London_essent
ials.html

"When they¹re not selling their guitars to buy turntables, they¹re
selling their turntables to buy guitars * EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline
soldiers in the culture war. Look out for their American Apparel camo at
all the area¹s free gigs, basement aftershows, secret raves and
pose-friendly cafés."

Stephen

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,

"When they¹re not selling their guitars to buy turntables, they¹re
selling their turntables to buy guitars * EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline
soldiers in the culture war.


This "culture war" is news to me, can you please expand a little?

Iain

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really (snip)

That's not the impression I get from reading your posts here ;-)

LOL:-) Well, I have a large collection of both
vinyl and CD but I cannot resist "putting a spanner
in thew works" now and again on anti-vinyl groups
such as this one. It's fun to see the man from Detroit
turn apoplectic, and start to rant and scream about
"vinyl bigots", etc etc:-)

I look after my LP record collection with care, and clean the
surfaces often. I have two high-grade turntables of my own,
EMT948 and 401/SME3012/V15III and these give me
very good results indeed. Due to the huge amount of music
not available on CD, I cannot possibly even consider life
without a turntable.

Yes you are right. But your 35mm mag stripe material is not
available to most people, as are LPs are from the charity
shop, and a 35mm MWA( Albrecht) recorder/reproducer
is pretty hard to find too:-)


It's precisely the inaccessibility of these technologies that makes them
fascinating IMO. Apart from 4-track "CinemaScope" mag stereo I'm also
interested in the elaborate "Fantasound" system used to record and
reproduce the soundtrack of Fantasia, for which no original recordings or
sound prints survive (the oldest surviving version of the Fantasia
soundtrack is a 1955 vintage magnetic film copy).

You seem, to share a parallel interest with a former colleague
of mine, now working as an AD in TV, who is very knowledgeable
on the subject of Fantasia from both the technical and the artistic angle.

And from another technology I'm also fascinated by the pre-war Baird
240-line TV system used on alternate weeks at Ally Pally from Sept 1936 to
Feb 1937. For which not only does no hardware survive, but most of the
documentation was destroyed in the Crystal Palace fire of 1936.

Do you know people with a similar interest? Are there discussion
groups for such subjects? It an important part of the British
broadcasting heritage.

But I accept that I'm unusual in finding this stuff interesting.

Probably not as unusual as you may think. Even in a smallish
city like HKI I know two people who have 16mm projectors
at home, in purpose-built rooms. One of them is a great
Bogart buff, the other is fascinated with Hitchcock. Both have
a huge collection of films. Hitchcock's composer, Bernard
Hermann was one of my tutors while I was in the UK, so
I watch these films with interest.

Most people, especially young people IME, couldn't care less about vintage
audio-video technology. And I am far from convinced that "many" people are
fascinated by vinyl.

I come into contact with large numbers of young musicians.
There is a great deal of interest in British popular music of
the 1960s. These young players scoured the second hand
shops looking for music in which they are interested. It didn't
take them long to get hooked on vinyl. I am on the committee
of a "gramophone society". We have recently agreed to make
our premises and equipment available to a group of you music
students who want to listen to their music on the best possible
equipment available to them. I find this trend both interesting
and encouraging.

It's a sunny but "crisp" morning- -24.5C. I don't think I shall
be taking lunch in the garden. I have lit a roaring log fire -
no gig till this evening:-)

Iain

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"MiNe 109" wrote

Your quibbles are logically valid but factually incorrect, except for
the proposition that "being fashionable" doesn't equal "being
fashionable" because of an arbitrarily exclusion.


Vague waffle such as that does not advance your argument one iota. You will
have to explain where the "factual inaccuracies" are and where this
"arbitrarily exclusion" is to be found

http://www.timeout.com/london/around..._London_essent
ials.html

"When they¹re not selling their guitars to buy turntables, they¹re
selling their turntables to buy guitars * EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline
soldiers in the culture war. Look out for their American Apparel camo at
all the area¹s free gigs, basement aftershows, secret raves and
pose-friendly cafés."


Yet more vague waffle. what is "EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline soldiers in
the culture war" supposed to mean?

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:


... but I cannot resist "putting a spanner in thew works" now and again
on anti-vinyl groups such as this one.

Must say I do find that comment weird. So far as I can see, individuals
here make all kinds of comments about 'vinyl'. Describing the *group* as
"anti-vinyl" does seem to me to say more about your thinking than the
group.

Is it "anti vinyl" for someone to say they tend to prefer something else
for reasons they state?

Does an individual writing that make the *group* "anti vinyl"?

If your responses are "yes" then I can only repeat that it seems an odd
view and state of mind to me.

Perhaps you have not noticed how I (and others) have criticised commercial
*CDs* as well for their faults and imperfections As with LP, due to the
witlessness of those making them. The distinction being that with LP the
problems ususally arose at the time of physical pressing or later. With CD
it is the dim bulbs who level compress the music to death before it even
gets onto the physical CD on sale. Does this make me "anti aluminium"? :-)

Geting back to the *topic* of this thread I was happy just to comment on
the Technics DD turntables relative to other turntables. But others
introduced other points. e.g. you added in a comment about my hearing the
clicks and pops on the LPs I used to buy. Was it then "anti vinyl" for me
to comment on that?

As I think I explained, in general my preference for other carriers was due
in part to audibly poorly made LPs rather than 'turntables'. FWIW My
general personal experience is that any decent audio system tends to be
more capable than a lot of the LPs/CDs/broadcasts served up for the public.
Presumably the vendors don't care and assume most buyers don't have decent
equipment or know or care.


I look after my LP record collection with care, and clean the surfaces
often. I have two high-grade turntables of my own, EMT948 and
401/SME3012/V15III and these give me very good results indeed. Due to
the huge amount of music not available on CD, I cannot possibly even
consider life without a turntable.

I own and use one LP playing system (as required) but find that I have
plenty to enjoy on CD or from the BBC or from occasional DVDs of concerts.
So I very rarely bother to get a 'new' (to me) LP. So what?

I come into contact with large numbers of young musicians. There is a
great deal of interest in British popular music of the 1960s. These
young players scoured the second hand shops looking for music in which
they are interested. It didn't take them long to get hooked on vinyl.

Again, very odd language to say they get "hooked" on "vinyl" rather than
*music*. Curious displacement thinking to have a 'fetish' for the container
rather than the contained. :-)

But I guess it is harmless enjoyment - unless it becomes like being
'hooked' on other materials which end up costing you a lot of money and
lost friends and family. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
"Iain Churches" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,

"When they¹re not selling their guitars to buy turntables, they¹re
selling their turntables to buy guitars * EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline
soldiers in the culture war.


This "culture war" is news to me, can you please expand a little?

I believe this is just a colorful description to dramatize the hipster
daily grind.

Stephen

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote

Your quibbles are logically valid but factually incorrect, except for
the proposition that "being fashionable" doesn't equal "being
fashionable" because of an arbitrarily exclusion.


Vague waffle such as that does not advance your argument one iota. You will
have to explain where the "factual inaccuracies" are and where this
"arbitrarily exclusion" is to be found

I'd look in your own words that you just snipped. Your logical
speculations are trumped by facts. Claiming hipster fashion doesn't
count because it's really a cult is a dodge by definition.

http://www.timeout.com/london/around..._London_essent
ials.html

"When they¹re not selling their guitars to buy turntables, they¹re
selling their turntables to buy guitars * EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline
soldiers in the culture war. Look out for their American Apparel camo at
all the area¹s free gigs, basement aftershows, secret raves and
pose-friendly cafés."


Yet more vague waffle. what is "EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline soldiers in
the culture war" supposed to mean?

The meaning is not important. What is important is that there is a
hipster scene (and hipster fashion) and it includes turntables.

Your argument was that turntables won't be fashionable. I pointed out a
fashion scene that includes them. QED.

Stephen

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"MiNe 109" wrote

Your argument was that turntables won't be fashionable. I pointed out a
fashion scene that includes them. QED.


And you have failed to understand the point that fashionability within a
tiny group doesn't equal "fashionable". Many things are "fashionable" within
special interest groups, doesn't make any of those things "fashionable" in
the general sense either.

BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".

QED.

David

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really (snip)

That's not the impression I get from reading your posts here ;-)

It's fun to see the man from Detroit
turn apoplectic, and start to rant and scream about
"vinyl bigots", etc etc:-)

Is it? seems pretty childish behaviour to me.

I look after my LP record collection with care, and clean the
surfaces often. I have two high-grade turntables of my own,
EMT948 and 401/SME3012/V15III and these give me
very good results indeed. Due to the huge amount of music
not available on CD, I cannot possibly even consider life
without a turntable.

What about the huge amount of music not available on vinyl?


You seem, to share a parallel interest with a former colleague
of mine, now working as an AD in TV, who is very knowledgeable
on the subject of Fantasia from both the technical and the artistic angle.

I first saw Fantasia at the age of six. It made a huge impression on me at
the time (esp. the Rite of Spring and Night on Bald Mountain sequences) and
I have been mildly obsessed with it ever since.

And from another technology I'm also fascinated by the pre-war Baird
240-line TV system used on alternate weeks at Ally Pally from Sept 1936 to
Feb 1937. For which not only does no hardware survive, but most of the
documentation was destroyed in the Crystal Palace fire of 1936.

Do you know people with a similar interest? Are there discussion
groups for such subjects?

Yes and yes.

It an important part of the British
broadcasting heritage.

I agree, it's a shame that the BBC doesn't. The old TV studios at AP would
be an ideal place for a well-funded museum of TV broadcasting. But neither
the BBC nor any other organisation wants to stump up the funds.

But I accept that I'm unusual in finding this stuff interesting.

Probably not as unusual as you may think. Even in a smallish
city like HKI I know two people who have 16mm projectors
at home, in purpose-built rooms.

LOL! two people in a city hardly counts as more than an insignificant
minority!

I know someone who lives near me who has a 35mm cinema projector installed
in his modest terrace house. The projector is in what was meant to be the
dining room with a port cut through into the living room where the screen
is. This projector is fitted with a replay head for 4-track mag sound, and
he even has a striped 35mm print of a feature film that he can run on it.
Goodness knows how he managed to acquire that, better not to ask ;-).
..

Most people, especially young people IME, couldn't care less about
vintage
audio-video technology. And I am far from convinced that "many" people
are
fascinated by vinyl.

I come into contact with large numbers of young musicians.
There is a great deal of interest in British popular music of
the 1960s. These young players scoured the second hand
shops looking for music in which they are interested. It didn't
take them long to get hooked on vinyl.

That would depend on the sort of music they are interested in. You talk a
lot about jazz, and I guess that's an area where vinyl retains some
significance. In the village in which I live there are two families with
musically talented children, in one household the turntable is stored in a
junk room and, judging by the dust is little used, the other doesn't have a
turntable at all (they recently asked me to transfer a few LPs they owned to
CD-R). But in both cases the major interest is classical music, and five of
the six young people involved are girls, who are rather less likely to
become geeky about vintage replay technology.


It's a sunny but "crisp" morning- -24.5C. I don't think I shall
be taking lunch in the garden. I have lit a roaring log fire -
no gig till this evening:-)


It's a miserable day here today, not that cold (4C), but dull, overcast and
misty.
I'm not having lunch in the garden either, but I'll wait until later to
light the woodburner.

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"MiNe 109" wrote

Your argument was that turntables won't be fashionable. I pointed out a
fashion scene that includes them. QED.


And you have failed to understand the point that fashionability within a
tiny group doesn't equal "fashionable". Many things are "fashionable"
within special interest groups, doesn't make any of those things
"fashionable" in the general sense either.


Still trying to lay down the law, David? What do you mean by 'the general
sense' - I am not aware of any 'fashion' that applies to anyone outside the
select group who are interested in the 'fashion' in question.

Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just outside of this town
and they *all* have turntables and play records, so I think you could safely
say that at least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a very
fashionable item - no?

(I suspect your own 'vinyl problems' stem from the fact that you probably
don't know anyone who routinely plays records, ;-)


BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".


Another 'Looser imposed condition' - when he collect that liability?

Who cares if turntables are considered 'fashionable' here or not? FWIW, this
group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience any opposition to
the use of turntables/playing records!

And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than half a
dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

QEND

LOL

OMG

TFIF

:-)

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote

Your argument was that turntables won't be fashionable. I pointed out a
fashion scene that includes them. QED.


And you have failed to understand the point that fashionability within a
tiny group doesn't equal "fashionable". Many things are "fashionable" within
special interest groups, doesn't make any of those things "fashionable" in
the general sense either.

You are arguing by definition. I don't accept yours.

If you are arguing that turntables are no longer widely used and will
not be in the future, I would agree heartily.

Stephen

BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".

QED.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

On 18/02/2011 09:25, Jim Lesurf wrote:
HACK
I own and use one LP playing system (as required) but find that I have
plenty to enjoy on CD or from the BBC or from occasional DVDs of concerts.
So I very rarely bother to get a 'new' (to me) LP. So what?

Yeah, so what! Why do you bother to post this drivel?

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message


Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just
outside of this town and they *all* have turntables and
play records,

Probably due to your evangelization...

so I think you could safely say that at
least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a very
fashionable item - no?

My friends would blanch at the thought of our shared preferences being
merely fashionable.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote


Still trying to lay down the law, David?

Stop talking ******** Keith. This is a discussion group, I am no more
"trying to lay down the law" than you, or anyone else who posts an opinion
here.

What do you mean by 'the general sense' - I am not aware of any 'fashion'
that applies to anyone outside the select group who are interested in the
'fashion' in question.

If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you agree? If
the word "fashionable" is used without qualification it implies considerably
more than the item in question being popular within a narrow interest group.

Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just outside of this town
and they *all* have turntables and play records, so I think you could
safely say that at least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a
very fashionable item - no?

No.

What is the population of your town? 100,000? so 5 people represents
..005%. Of course there will be many more people in your town who own, and
use, turntables. But there will be significantly more than that again who
own and use CD players and mp3 players. It seems to me to be the height of
folly to try to claim fashionability for a minority interest product simply
because it is popular amongst the people who constitute that minority. At
that rate *everything* is "fashionable" and the word becomes meaningless.

(I suspect your own 'vinyl problems' stem from the fact that you probably
don't know anyone who routinely plays records, ;-)

Or maybe yours is that you do :-)


BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".


Another 'Looser imposed condition' - when he collect that liability?

It's far from a "Looser imposed condition". If you make a statement and are
unable, or unwilling, to support it with evidence then that statement is no
more than your unsupported opinion. That's a fact of life, not an imposition
from me!

Who cares if turntables are considered 'fashionable' here or not?

Your mate Iain clearly does, as he was the one who suggested that turntables
might become "fashionable"

FWIW, this group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience any
opposition to the use of turntables/playing records!

Then you need to get out more. It's easy, if you only ever mix with
like-minded enthusiasts, to conclude that most people think like you. And
*nobody* has expressed "opposition" to the use of turntables or records. All
that I and others have expressed is the opinion that CDs offer a better
alternative.

And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than half
a dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

And from what I see a handful of individuals here can get highly agitated at
the mere suggestion that vinyl is an inferior medium :-)

QEND

LOL

OMG

TFIF

:-)

You are losing it Keith ;-)

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just
outside of this town and they *all* have turntables and
play records,

Probably due to your evangelization...


When do I 'evangelize'?

The picture of a madman ranting about the *evils of vinyl* is far more
commonplace here - and we both know who I'm talking about, don't we? ;-)

(Same for SET valve amps, asitappens! ;-)




so I think you could safely say that at
least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a very
fashionable item - no?

My friends would blanch at the thought of our shared preferences being
merely fashionable.


Where did the 'merely' come from?

You and Mr Looser really do have to look at this business of modifying
people's statements to suit the purposes of your arguments....

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


Still trying to lay down the law, David?

Stop talking ******** Keith. This is a discussion group, I am no more
"trying to lay down the law" than you, or anyone else who posts an opinion
here.


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your posts (even today)
is very often one of 'laying down the law' (or trying to) rather than
reasoned debate. For instance, there is a world of difference between the
phrases 'I disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

If the subtle yet significant importance of that escapes you, then it is not
my job to put you in the picture.



What do you mean by 'the general sense' - I am not aware of any 'fashion'
that applies to anyone outside the select group who are interested in the
'fashion' in question.

If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you agree?


I don't know what you mean by 'pre-war TV'...?


If
the word "fashionable" is used without qualification it implies
considerably
more than the item in question being popular within a narrow interest
group.



In almost every human activity there will be stuff which is 'fashionable
with the the 'xyz' set' - fashions are rarely *universal*.



Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just outside of this
town
and they *all* have turntables and play records, so I think you could
safely say that at least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a
very fashionable item - no?

No.

What is the population of your town? 100,000?


No, less than 30,000


so 5 people represents
.005%. Of course there will be many more people in your town who own, and
use, turntables. But there will be significantly more than that again who
own and use CD players and mp3 players.


How do you know this - have you asked them?


It seems to me to be the height of
folly to try to claim fashionability for a minority interest product
simply
because it is popular amongst the people who constitute that minority. At
that rate *everything* is "fashionable" and the word becomes meaningless.


I think you are still applying 'universal' qualities to the word 'fashion' -
apart from Broccoli, I suspect everything is 'fashionable withe someone,
somewhere....??



(I suspect your own 'vinyl problems' stem from the fact that you probably
don't know anyone who routinely plays records, ;-)

Or maybe yours is that you do :-)



I'm not the one with 'vinyl problems' here, am I? ;-)



BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".


Another 'Looser imposed condition' - when he collect that liability?

It's far from a "Looser imposed condition". If you make a statement and
are unable, or unwilling, to support it with evidence then that statement
is no more than your unsupported opinion. That's a fact of life, not an
imposition from me!

Who cares if turntables are considered 'fashionable' here or not?

Your mate Iain clearly does, as he was the one who suggested that
turntables might become "fashionable"


I think you've read too much in what he said - I don't think he was implying
turntables would become fashionable with ukra (UK is two words) subscribers.



FWIW, this group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience any
opposition to the use of turntables/playing records!

Then you need to get out more. It's easy, if you only ever mix with
like-minded enthusiasts, to conclude that most people think like you. And
*nobody* has expressed "opposition" to the use of turntables or records.
All that I and others have expressed is the opinion that CDs offer a
better alternative.


I don't need to travel - I get all the 'opposition' I need to vinyl here!
:-)



And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than half
a dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

And from what I see a handful of individuals here can get highly agitated


No, you just made that up....


at
the mere suggestion that vinyl is an inferior medium :-)


But it isn't - it's CDs which are crap! ;-)



QEND

LOL

OMG

TFIF

:-)

You are losing it Keith ;-)


Don't you mean 'loosing it'...??

:-)

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


Still trying to lay down the law, David?

Stop talking ******** Keith. This is a discussion group, I am no more
"trying to lay down the law" than you, or anyone else who posts an
opinion
here.


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your posts (even today)
is very often one of 'laying down the law' (or trying to) rather than
reasoned debate.

That maybe your perception, it's not mine.

For instance, there is a world of difference between the phrases 'I
disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

And where did I say "you are wrong"?

If the subtle yet significant importance of that escapes you, then it is
not my job to put you in the picture.

The distinction does not escape me, where I disagree is that I see your
posts exhibiting exactly those qualities that you object to in mine. You put
your views forward strongly, so do I. You cannot have one rule for you, and
another for everyone else.



What do you mean by 'the general sense' - I am not aware of any
'fashion'
that applies to anyone outside the select group who are interested in
the
'fashion' in question.

If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you agree?


I don't know what you mean by 'pre-war TV'...?

Television before the war?


If
the word "fashionable" is used without qualification it implies
considerably
more than the item in question being popular within a narrow interest
group.



In almost every human activity there will be stuff which is 'fashionable
with the the 'xyz' set' - fashions are rarely *universal*.

True enough, but if the word is used without qualification then one would
expect it to apply to at least a large proprtion of the population.


Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just outside of this
town
and they *all* have turntables and play records, so I think you could
safely say that at least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a
very fashionable item - no?

No.

What is the population of your town? 100,000?


No, less than 30,000


so 5 people represents
.005%.

OK, .015% Still pretty insignificant.

Of course there will be many more people in your town who own, and
use, turntables. But there will be significantly more than that again who
own and use CD players and mp3 players.


How do you know this - have you asked them?

OK, you got me there! I cannot *prove* that to be the case. Put it like
this, I see people out and about with mp3 players all the time. Walk around
town or ride on a bus or train and there they are. CDs are widely available
in supermarkets or general stores (whilst LPs aren't) and there are many
times more CD than LP titles available from on-line retailers such as
Amazon. CD drives are standard in commonplace domestic items such as
computers, "mini-HiFis", boom boxes etc.


It seems to me to be the height of
folly to try to claim fashionability for a minority interest product
simply
because it is popular amongst the people who constitute that minority. At
that rate *everything* is "fashionable" and the word becomes meaningless.


I think you are still applying 'universal' qualities to the word
'fashion' - apart from Broccoli, I suspect everything is 'fashionable
withe someone, somewhere....??

I like Broccoli :-)
But if "everything" is 2fashionable" the word ceases to
mean anything.



(I suspect your own 'vinyl problems' stem from the fact that you
probably
don't know anyone who routinely plays records, ;-)

Or maybe yours is that you do :-)



I'm not the one with 'vinyl problems' here, am I? ;-)

No, you are the one with the 'CD problems' ;-)


I think you've read too much in what he said - I don't think he was
implying turntables would become fashionable with ukra (UK is two words)
subscribers.

There is a "uk" hierarchy, that's one hierachy.
I understood that he was implying that turntables would become fashionable
with the general music-buying public.



FWIW, this group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience
any
opposition to the use of turntables/playing records!


The only 'opposition' you get here is to your oft-stated views on CD.


Then you need to get out more. It's easy, if you only ever mix with
like-minded enthusiasts, to conclude that most people think like you. And
*nobody* has expressed "opposition" to the use of turntables or records.
All that I and others have expressed is the opinion that CDs offer a
better alternative.


I don't need to travel - I get all the 'opposition' I need to vinyl here!
:-)


And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than
half
a dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

And from what I see a handful of individuals here can get highly agitated


No, you just made that up....

Did I? Your response to suggestions that vinyl is inferior to CD often seems
pretty agitated to me. Your reference above to "half a dozen noisy
individuals
here - one or two of whom can become quite hysterical with it!" looks pretty
"agitated" to me!

at
the mere suggestion that vinyl is an inferior medium :-)


But it isn't - it's CDs which are crap! ;-)

Very much a minority view.


QEND

LOL

OMG

TFIF

:-)

You are losing it Keith ;-)


Don't you mean 'loosing it'...??

ROFLOL!

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your
posts (even today) is very often one of 'laying down the
law' (or trying to) rather than reasoned debate.

Root cause, someone who is willfully ignorant of commonly known and
understand physical laws.

For instance, there is a world of difference between the
phrases 'I disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

There's a world of difference between being wrong about something that is
well known, and having differing opinions about something that is not well
known.

If the subtle yet significant importance of that escapes
you, then it is not my job to put you in the picture.

There you go Keith - it is you who says they control who is "in the picture"
and who is not.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

On 20/02/2011 12:30, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Keith wrote in message


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your
posts (even today) is very often one of 'laying down the
law' (or trying to) rather than reasoned debate.

Root cause, someone who is willfully ignorant of commonly known and
understand physical laws.


Go on, I'll bite :-)

Which physical laws of yours would these be?

Rob

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


For instance, there is a world of difference between the phrases 'I
disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

And where did I say "you are wrong"?


I am making a point, not referring to any particular incidence - the next
time it happens I will point it out.



If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you agree?


I don't know what you mean by 'pre-war TV'...?

Television before the war?


Then I can't comment - I wasn'r around then! I am led to understand that TV
'pre war' was in its infancy and not widespread enough to be a fashion - no?


In almost every human activity there will be stuff which is 'fashionable
with the the 'xyz' set' - fashions are rarely *universal*.

True enough, but if the word is used without qualification then one would
expect it to apply to at least a large proprtion of the population.


Qualification isn't usually necessary - to say something is 'fashionable'
implies that is fashionable to a given group, however large or small.
Coloured contact lenses are fashionable but thankfully only to a minority of
people.

What's far more important is 'are SET valve amps fashionable'...??



OK, you got me there! I cannot *prove* that to be the case. Put it like
this, I see people out and about with mp3 players all the time.


This is where we differ, I haven't seen very many at all: mobile phones
stuck to the side of their heads - yes!


Walk around
town or ride on a bus or train and there they are. CDs are widely
available
in supermarkets or general stores (whilst LPs aren't) and there are many
times more CD than LP titles available from on-line retailers such as
Amazon. CD drives are standard in commonplace domestic items such as
computers, "mini-HiFis", boom boxes etc.


'Commonplace' doesn't equate with *quality* - usually quite the reverse!


I think you are still applying 'universal' qualities to the word
'fashion' - apart from Broccoli, I suspect everything is 'fashionable
withe someone, somewhere....??

I like Broccoli :-)


I just won a million pounds! ;-)



But if "everything" is 2fashionable" the word ceases to
mean anything.



Quite. It doesn't really mean anything other than summat is popular with (or
aspired to) a given bunch of people.



I'm not the one with 'vinyl problems' here, am I? ;-)

No, you are the one with the 'CD problems' ;-)


Absolutely no! I don't play them (except rarely) and have more than enough
vinyl to be getting on with - thus they are no problem to me!



I understood that he was implying that turntables would become fashionable
with the general music-buying public.


Too far away from the original now to know what you are referring to - is
that Iain? If so, I don't think he would have said that - I don't believe
vinyl will ever be played by more than a dedicated minority of enthusiasts.



FWIW, this group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience
any
opposition to the use of turntables/playing records!


The only 'opposition' you get here is to your oft-stated views on CD.


That they are crap? (I've only said that once before - yesterday, I think!
:-)


And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than
half
a dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

And from what I see a handful of individuals here can get highly
agitated


No, you just made that up....

Did I? Your response to suggestions that vinyl is inferior to CD often
seems
pretty agitated to me. Your reference above to "half a dozen noisy
individuals
here - one or two of whom can become quite hysterical with it!" looks
pretty
"agitated" to me!


Er, about as 'agitated' as a 'half cut' Dean Martin, actually!

#Gimme the moonlight...#

;-)



at
the mere suggestion that vinyl is an inferior medium :-)


But it isn't - it's CDs which are crap! ;-)

Very much a minority view.


Plummetting sales say different!

(They are obviously not good enough to prevent people ditching them in
favour of downloads for the same sort of money! :-)

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your
posts (even today) is very often one of 'laying down the
law' (or trying to) rather than reasoned debate.

Root cause, someone who is willfully ignorant of commonly known and
understand physical laws.


??


For instance, there is a world of difference between the
phrases 'I disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

There's a world of difference between being wrong about something that is
well known, and having differing opinions about something that is not well
known.


What has that to do with anything?



If the subtle yet significant importance of that escapes
you, then it is not my job to put you in the picture.

There you go Keith - it is you who says they control who is "in the
picture" and who is not.


I'm afraid I haven't understood a word of that.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


For instance, there is a world of difference between the phrases 'I
disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

And where did I say "you are wrong"?


I am making a point, not referring to any particular incidence - the next
time it happens I will point it out.


Ah, I see, I didn't say it, but you will criticise me for saying it anyway.


If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you
agree?


I don't know what you mean by 'pre-war TV'...?

Television before the war?


Then I can't comment - I wasn'r around then! I am led to understand that
TV 'pre war' was in its infancy and not widespread enough to be a
fashion - no?

But there were people fascinated by TV at the time, and indeed there are
people today fascinated by this formative period in the history of TV. My
point is that by the logic that has been used to claim "fashionabilty" for
vinyl pre-war TV should also be "fashionable".


What's far more important is 'are SET valve amps fashionable'...??

Nope.



OK, you got me there! I cannot *prove* that to be the case. Put it like
this, I see people out and about with mp3 players all the time.


This is where we differ, I haven't seen very many at all: mobile phones
stuck to the side of their heads - yes!


You really don't get out much do you Keith! Try opening your eyes next time
you are on a bus or train (or are you one of those who never goes anywhere
by public transport?)


'Commonplace' doesn't equate with *quality* - usually quite the reverse!

That comment shows that you are missing the point by miles! You were talking
about the *popularity* of vinyl and now, when I state that vinyl is far less
popular than CD or mp3 you start wittering on about quality. Just try
conceding a point when you lose, rather than try and pretend that we were
talking about something different. :-(

BTW your statement "Commonplace' doesn't equate with *quality* - usually
quite the reverse" doesn't hold true these days. Automated mass production
not only produces items at low cost (thus allowing them to be "commonplace")
but also produces them at a consistent high quality.

I think you are still applying 'universal' qualities to the word
'fashion' - apart from Broccoli, I suspect everything is 'fashionable
withe someone, somewhere....??

I like Broccoli :-)


I just won a million pounds! ;-)



But if "everything" is 2fashionable" the word ceases to
mean anything.



Quite. It doesn't really mean anything other than summat is popular with
(or aspired to) a given bunch of people.



I'm not the one with 'vinyl problems' here, am I? ;-)

No, you are the one with the 'CD problems' ;-)


Absolutely no! I don't play them (except rarely) and have more than enough
vinyl to be getting on with - thus they are no problem to me!

Ah, yet again you twist the meaning to suit yourself. If that's the meaning
of "problem" you meant with your statement then I'm not aware that anyone
here has "vinyl problems".



The only 'opposition' you get here is to your oft-stated views on CD.


That they are crap? (I've only said that once before - yesterday, I think!
:-)

Whether you've used that exact expression before or not, you've expressed
that view frequently, so please don't try playing games with words. I cannot
decide whether you do this sort of thing deliberately to avoid having to
concede a point, or whether you genuinely cannot follow arguments further
back than one post in a thread.


But it isn't - it's CDs which are crap! ;-)

Very much a minority view.


Plummetting sales say different!

Again you are totally missing the point (you do it so well Keith, and so
often!) Sales are not plumetting because people think CDs are "crap", they
are plumeting because music is increasingly being downloaded (often at no
cost) and listened to from mp3 players etc.

(They are obviously not good enough to prevent people ditching them in
favour of downloads for the same sort of money! :-)

Nobody is ditching CDs in favour of downloads because they think downloads
have better fidelity, they are doing it because downloads are quick, because
they can buy the tracks they want rather than having to buy a whole album.
And, since they are going to play the music from their mp3 player anyway,
there's not really much point in bothering with a physical object.

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article , David Looser
wrote:


Nobody is ditching CDs in favour of downloads because they think
downloads have better fidelity,

Well, it may be that *some* people are switching to downloads to get
96k/24bit (or similar) LPCM because they regard that as "better fidelity"
than CD. How often they would be right to think this is another matter...
:-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Rob" wrote in message
eb.com
On 20/02/2011 12:30, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Keith wrote in message


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your
posts (even today) is very often one of 'laying down the
law' (or trying to) rather than reasoned debate.

Root cause, someone who is willfully ignorant of
commonly known and understand physical laws.


Go on, I'll bite :-)

Which physical laws of yours would these be?

I have no physical laws, but the universe and Science have done well with
theirs.