"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
I'll bet they were in the early days. The BBC certainly used them for a
while.

Interesting, Do you know what did they use them for?

Err, broadcasting? I'm surprised you've never heard of the GEC Peel
Conner. Or Marconi Reisz. Etc. Carbon mics were used into the '30s.

But in what application? Speech only?
Surely not for music?

The Schottky ribbon dates from 1923
and ribbon mics were available from the very
earliest days of electrical recording and
ubiquitous by early 1930s

Even by modern standards, ribbons can produce
a very pleasing sound. I have a pair of British made
Film Industries M8s which are excellent on strings,
and the STC/Coles 4xxx series is still highly regarded
by people who have them. Especially pleasing for
acoustic guitar.

After the AXBT came the PGS - both BBC designs. The PGS was then slightly
modified for production and made by STC as the 4038. I have one.

We had a number of 4038s at Decca. I have
never come across them since.

Still my
favourite alto sax mic. You should try it on those sometime

I would if I had one. I can imagine it would sound very good on
an alto saxophone in an orchestral setting - Ravel, Dubois, etc.
But for jazz, where you need proximity, two mics are often neede
for solo alto. A pair of 84s are a popular choice, among those
that have them. Their placement needs particular care. Fortunately,
the legendary Greek recording engineer Isosceles has worked it all
out for us:-)

Iain

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
I'll bet they were in the early days. The BBC certainly used them for a
while.

Interesting, Do you know what did they use them for?

Err, broadcasting? I'm surprised you've never heard of the GEC Peel
Conner. Or Marconi Reisz. Etc. Carbon mics were used into the '30s.

But in what application? Speech only?
Surely not for music?

Not having been around then my guess is they were used for everything and
anything. They didn't have the selection we have today. ;-) Certainly
early pics show it being used for singists.

The Schottky ribbon dates from 1923
and ribbon mics were available from the very
earliest days of electrical recording and
ubiquitous by early 1930s

Even by modern standards, ribbons can produce
a very pleasing sound. I have a pair of British made
Film Industries M8s which are excellent on strings,
and the STC/Coles 4xxx series is still highly regarded
by people who have them. Especially pleasing for
acoustic guitar.

After the AXBT came the PGS - both BBC designs. The PGS was then
slightly modified for production and made by STC as the 4038. I have
one.

We had a number of 4038s at Decca. I have
never come across them since.

I'm surprised. It's the sort of mic most people have at least one of.
Since it was one of the finest general purpose mics of all time. But very
pricey.

Still my
favourite alto sax mic. You should try it on those sometime

I would if I had one. I can imagine it would sound very good on
an alto saxophone in an orchestral setting - Ravel, Dubois, etc.
But for jazz, where you need proximity, two mics are often neede
for solo alto. A pair of 84s are a popular choice, among those
that have them. Their placement needs particular care. Fortunately,
the legendary Greek recording engineer Isosceles has worked it all
out for us:-)

It works just fine for any type of music. Being extremely dead on the
sides has uses in a multi-mic setup too.

--
*Would a fly without wings be called a walk?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
I'll bet they were in the early days. The BBC certainly used them
for a
while.

Interesting, Do you know what did they use them for?

Err, broadcasting? I'm surprised you've never heard of the GEC Peel
Conner. Or Marconi Reisz. Etc. Carbon mics were used into the '30s.

But in what application? Speech only?
Surely not for music?

Not having been around then my guess is they were used for everything and
anything. They didn't have the selection we have today. ;-) Certainly
early pics show it being used for singists.

Gosh! I wonder what that sounded like?

I once worked on a Pasadena Roof Orch type job
where the singer used a megaphone into an STC4038.
On another session, the original singer of The Temperance
Seven, whose name escapes me, is said to have sung
a chorus with his head in a galvanised bucket!

We had a number of 4038s at Decca. I have
never come across them since.

I'm surprised. It's the sort of mic most people have at least one of.

Not outide the UK

Since it was one of the finest general purpose mics of all time. But very
pricey.

It would be interesting to compare it with my long term favourite
the original vintage U-47.

It works just fine for any type of music. Being extremely dead on the
sides has uses in a multi-mic setup too.

In many instances, hyper-cardiod ís not the best choice.
One can use omni and Fo8 pattern to great advantage.
I was taught to mic French horns with a Fo8 and take
use the surrounding acoustic which plays such a large
role in their sound. You need to set the studio up
properly and ensure there is no-one sitting behind
them blowing into their mics.

Regards
Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
I'll bet they were in the early days. The BBC certainly used them
for a
while.

Interesting, Do you know what did they use them for?

Err, broadcasting? I'm surprised you've never heard of the GEC Peel
Conner. Or Marconi Reisz. Etc. Carbon mics were used into the '30s.

But in what application? Speech only?
Surely not for music?

Not having been around then my guess is they were used for everything and
anything. They didn't have the selection we have today. ;-) Certainly
early pics show it being used for singists.

Gosh! I wonder what that sounded like?


Broadcasting in the 1920s wasn't a "high-fidelity" business. Most listening
was done using earphones that were basically just two telephone earpieces on
a head-band. If the listener had a loudspeaker it probably had a driver that
was essentially a large telephone earpiece coupled to a metal exponential
horn. Either way the frequency response would have had a massive resonant
peak between 1 and 2 kHz and very little output below 200Hz or above 4kHz.
To that you can add the high distortion levels typical of radio transmitter
and receiver designs of the time. These carbon mics had characteristics in
terms of both frequency and amplitude response that made them much more
suitable for that situation than a "HiFi" ribbon would have been. It was
only after the widespread introduction of moving-coil loudspeakers and
low(er) distortion electronics, that the carbon microphone became the weak
link in the chain.

David.

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
Not having been around then my guess is they were used for everything
and anything. They didn't have the selection we have today. ;-)
Certainly early pics show it being used for singists.

Gosh! I wonder what that sounded like?


Broadcasting in the 1920s wasn't a "high-fidelity" business. Most
listening was done using earphones that were basically just two
telephone earpieces on a head-band.

Iain knows very little about broadcasting, it seems. When radio started in
the UK the majority of discs were acoustically recorded.

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Looser wrote:
Not having been around then my guess is they were used for everything
and anything. They didn't have the selection we have today. ;-)
Certainly early pics show it being used for singists.

Gosh! I wonder what that sounded like?


Broadcasting in the 1920s wasn't a "high-fidelity" business. Most
listening was done using earphones that were basically just two
telephone earpieces on a head-band.

Iain knows very little about broadcasting, it seems.

Not of much interest, I'm afraid. I have seen the mics
clipped on to the music stands for violin players:-)

When radio started in
the UK the majority of discs were acoustically recorded.

Yes. I have used an acoustic recording machine at Decca.
But by the 1930s the period you were talking about, when
you wrote "Carbon mics were used into the '30s." electrical
recording with ribon mics was well established.

Iain

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Broadcasting in the 1920s wasn't a "high-fidelity" business. Most
listening was done using earphones that were basically just two
telephone earpieces on a head-band.

Iain knows very little about broadcasting, it seems.

Not of much interest, I'm afraid. I have seen the mics
clipped on to the music stands for violin players:-)

I simply don't believe you've ever seen that done in a radio studio. And
radio is what's being discussed here?
Even so I'd have thought even you might realise why microphones might not
always be in the ideal position in TV. Only requires a moment's thought
for one with some experience who can see beyond the recording studio.



When radio started in
the UK the majority of discs were acoustically recorded.

Yes. I have used an acoustic recording machine at Decca.
But by the 1930s the period you were talking about, when
you wrote "Carbon mics were used into the '30s." electrical
recording with ribon mics was well established.

I never said they were used exclusively by the '30s. But perhaps you throw
away all your equipment when new comes along? If so, why are you farting
around with all those ancient analogue tape recorders? Can't be for the
performance...

--
*I get enough exercise just pushing my luck.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , David Looser
scribeth thus
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
I'll bet they were in the early days. The BBC certainly used them
for a
while.

Interesting, Do you know what did they use them for?

Err, broadcasting? I'm surprised you've never heard of the GEC Peel
Conner. Or Marconi Reisz. Etc. Carbon mics were used into the '30s.

But in what application? Speech only?
Surely not for music?

Not having been around then my guess is they were used for everything and
anything. They didn't have the selection we have today. ;-) Certainly
early pics show it being used for singists.

Gosh! I wonder what that sounded like?


Broadcasting in the 1920s wasn't a "high-fidelity" business.

It isn't these days what with stations moving towards 64K Mono;!....

And one now at 48 K ....
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
We had a number of 4038s at Decca. I have
never come across them since.

I'm surprised. It's the sort of mic most people have at least one of.

Not outide the UK

I tend to like the best the world has to offer. And the 4038 fits into
that. But probably too expensive for your uses.

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
We had a number of 4038s at Decca. I have
never come across them since.

I'm surprised. It's the sort of mic most people have at least one of.

Not outide the UK

I tend to like the best the world has to offer.

I too, and it certainly isn't the 4038:-)

Are you seriously saying that it sounds better
to your ear than an u87 in critical applications
such as male vocal? The Coles has none
of the versatilíty of the Neumann either.
Try the Coles on a bass drum:-)))

But probably too expensive for your uses.

Erm.....

The 4038 retails at Euro 1500 so about 850 trade/ex
VAT. Buy in quantity and you can probably get them
for 500 a piece.

Compare the performance and the price the Neumann
U47 (of which we have a number) or better still the
Telefunken U47 which really is the best the world
has to offer. Now that *is* an expensive mic, five times
the prices of the Coles. You will be lucky to find a
vintage example these days for 15k.

Iain