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....another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue
Still maybe Jimbo will post soon about the results of his harmonic discombobulation tests on digital octifiers. -- |
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In article ,
blue wrote: ...another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue The reason is simple. To many posts which are nothing to do with audio. Still maybe Jimbo will post soon about the results of his harmonic discombobulation tests on digital octifiers. And, of course, smart arses who rubbish those which are... -- *Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote: In article , blue wrote: ...another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue The reason is simple. To many posts which are nothing to do with audio. Maybe we should do some 'blogging' more about audio. So if anyone is interested, I've spent the morning saying a fond farewell to my c25-year-old ESL63s and installing a new pair of 2805s as their replacements. My main initial impressions a 1) gave them a quick tryout with a Proms recording (Kodaly and Bartok 1st Piano concerto, recorded from the 320k stream a few days ago). Also as contrast some Miles Davis from a fancy reissue of 'Kind of Blue' and the 'Miles Ahead' set of the Prestige album releases. Sound OK so far to me. Although I'll now spend weeks fiddling with speaker location, etc, :-) 2) Problem with unpacking as the instructions on how to do this are inside the pack! 8-] Then the problem of disposing/storing the mountains of packaging. 3) Nice to see white gloves provided so you don't mark the speakers. Not that I bothered. 4)...and a bonus copy of KK's book on Quad. I now have a 'stereo pair' of copies... ;- 5) I had thought the new speakers would visually 'stand out' more than the old ones given the metallic surround. But they do fade back OK due to the design and the 'black' cloth, etc. BTW I'm very impressed with the sound of the Proms this year via the 320k stream. Varies from concert to concert, but overall, really nice. Congratulations to the BBC. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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On 28/07/2011 12:53, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In , Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In articlexcqdnXAjYbvjl6zTnZ2dnUVZ7qidnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk, blue wrote: ...another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue The reason is simple. To many posts which are nothing to do with audio. Maybe we should do some 'blogging' more about audio. So if anyone is interested, I've spent the morning saying a fond farewell to my c25-year-old ESL63s and installing a new pair of 2805s as their replacements. My main initial impressions a 1) gave them a quick tryout with a Proms recording (Kodaly and Bartok 1st Piano concerto, recorded from the 320k stream a few days ago). Also as contrast some Miles Davis from a fancy reissue of 'Kind of Blue' and the 'Miles Ahead' set of the Prestige album releases. Sound OK so far to me. Although I'll now spend weeks fiddling with speaker location, etc, :-) 2) Problem with unpacking as the instructions on how to do this are inside the pack! 8-] Then the problem of disposing/storing the mountains of packaging. 3) Nice to see white gloves provided so you don't mark the speakers. Not that I bothered. 4)...and a bonus copy of KK's book on Quad. I now have a 'stereo pair' of copies... ;- 5) I had thought the new speakers would visually 'stand out' more than the old ones given the metallic surround. But they do fade back OK due to the design and the 'black' cloth, etc. BTW I'm very impressed with the sound of the Proms this year via the 320k stream. Varies from concert to concert, but overall, really nice. Congratulations to the BBC. Quite promising actually. -- |
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On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:53:39 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote: BTW I'm very impressed with the sound of the Proms this year via the 320k stream. Varies from concert to concert, but overall, really nice. Congratulations to the BBC. Slainte, Jim Freeview HD carried the first night in Dolby surround. They caught the RAH ambience very well, I thought. d |
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In article , Don Pearce
wrote: On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:53:39 +0100, Jim Lesurf wrote: BTW I'm very impressed with the sound of the Proms this year via the 320k stream. Varies from concert to concert, but overall, really nice. Congratulations to the BBC. Slainte, Jim Freeview HD carried the first night in Dolby surround. They caught the RAH ambience very well, I thought. I'd love to be able compare with R3 on Freeview again. But up here in t'frozen North the BBC have removed R3 from DVB-T in the evenings! Fortunately, the 320k iPlayer stream is excellent. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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On 28/07/2011 10:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articlexcqdnXAjYbvjl6zTnZ2dnUVZ7qidnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk, wrote: ...another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue The reason is simple. To many posts which are nothing to do with audio. Still maybe Jimbo will post soon about the results of his harmonic discombobulation tests on digital octifiers. And, of course, smart arses who rubbish those which are... You *really* should try and get out more. -- |
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In article ,
sender wrote: On 28/07/2011 10:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In articlexcqdnXAjYbvjl6zTnZ2dnUVZ7qidnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk, wrote: ...another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue The reason is simple. To many posts which are nothing to do with audio. Still maybe Jimbo will post soon about the results of his harmonic discombobulation tests on digital octifiers. And, of course, smart arses who rubbish those which are... You *really* should try and get out more. What a super original comment. Well worth the 5 hours wait. Did you get help with it - or all your own work? -- *Too many clicks spoil the browse * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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On 28/07/2011 23:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Well worth the 5 hours wait. Obsessive examination of OT posts...You *really, really* do need to try and find a life...get out, go for a walk...try and get your mental health back. -- |
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In article ,
atriage wrote: On 28/07/2011 23:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Well worth the 5 hours wait. Obsessive examination of OT posts...You *really, really* do need to try and find a life...get out, go for a walk...try and get your mental health back. This from someone who hides behind multiple aliases... -- *I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Are you living in a time warp? What about that great post about counterfeit
Nike trainers.. giggle. Brian -- Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email. graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them Email: __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________ "blue" wrote in message o.uk... ...another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue Still maybe Jimbo will post soon about the results of his harmonic discombobulation tests on digital octifiers. -- |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:53:39 +0100, Jim Lesurf wrote:
Maybe we should do some 'blogging' more about audio. So if anyone is interested, I've spent the morning saying a fond farewell to my c25-year-old ESL63s and installing a new pair of 2805s as their replacements. My main initial impressions a Jim, I hope that you have better luck than me! I am currently on my fourth set of 2805s. All of them have developed internal arcing - one of the latest pair started doing this as soon as they were installed. Regrettably, it looks very likely that I will be going back to my forty- year old 57s. This is a great pity because in all other respects the 2805s sound wonderful. Chris. |
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In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote: I'd love to be able compare with R3 on Freeview again. But up here in t'frozen North the BBC have removed R3 from DVB-T in the evenings! Fortunately, the 320k iPlayer stream is excellent. What 'gem' are you offered in its place? I fairly recently wanted to watch BBC1 Scotland - a play which was only on that. So via satellite. I'd guess you could always find R3 via that too. -- *I will always cherish the initial misconceptions I had about you Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote: In article , Jim Lesurf wrote: I'd love to be able compare with R3 on Freeview again. But up here in t'frozen North the BBC have removed R3 from DVB-T in the evenings! Fortunately, the 320k iPlayer stream is excellent. What 'gem' are you offered in its place? BBC Alba TV. i.e. a Gaelic station. One minority group TV station replacing the bulk of the BBC's UK radio output. This happened as a result of a 'political lobby' who want to promote Gaelic under the banner that this is essentially a synonym with 'Scots' - which it isn't. Most Scots speak, erm, 'Scottish' / English of various forms and have little or no interest in Gaelic. Indeed the people I've known who are keen Scots Nats regard Gaelic as about as relevant to modern Scotland as Shortbread Tins and Kilts. Fine simply for easing money out of the wallets of tourists... :-) The BBC Trust did run a 'consultation exercise'. But there was almost no publicity directed at those who actually listen to the BBC Radio stations in Scotland. So - unless you were politically plugged in to the Gaelic lobby - you would not have known. Most people didn't even know the decision was taken. The result was a curiously 'biassed' (in statistical terms) set of responses. Over 40 percent of responses were from Gaelic speakers and people seriously interested in Gaelic. ahem The figure for the general Scots population for that is about 2 percent depending on how you define the terms. So 20-fold over-representation. And the consultation questions gave no real way to say "I'd like Alba Gaelic TV but *not* by sacrificing all the normal radio." It was in essence, "That's the deal." They also slid in the change as part of the DSO. So I suspect many people don't even know *why* they can't now get the radio on DVB-T after the late afternoons. I fairly recently wanted to watch BBC1 Scotland - a play which was only on that. So via satellite. I'd guess you could always find R3 via that too. Yes, you can get BBC 'sound radio' in various ways. I find the iPlayer most convenient and the 320k aac+ R3 stream sounds excellent to me. The problem is that some people can't get satellite or a decent net stream. And these methods tend to require additional cost for people who just have a terrestrial TV. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article , Chris
Isbell wrote: On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:53:39 +0100, Jim Lesurf wrote: Maybe we should do some 'blogging' more about audio. So if anyone is interested, I've spent the morning saying a fond farewell to my c25-year-old ESL63s and installing a new pair of 2805s as their replacements. My main initial impressions a Jim, I hope that you have better luck than me! I am currently on my fourth set of 2805s. All of them have developed internal arcing - one of the latest pair started doing this as soon as they were installed. Well, the bad news is that when I switched them on this morning one speaker didn't power up. :- Fuse had blown. I tried another similar fuse and this also blew. The speakers had worked fine all yesterday. I went direct to source and have been discussing it with Quad this morning. I'm told that this is probably the mains transformer and a new one is on the way. I'll know more once I've had a go at trying that. They said that if I have any problem or doubts they'll send someone out to fix it. But - since they know I'm an engineer who knows which end of a soldering iron *not* to hold - it is a job I can probably sort out myself more quickly if I prefer. If so, that suits me as it also gives me an excuse to learn a bit about the innards. Its a chance I'd have preferred not to have needed so soon, though... I'll decide when the transformer and info on how to do the replacement arrive. How did the arcing show up and what were the symptoms, etc? I've had an assortement of repetitive clickings and buzzings at times in the past from 63s and 988s. But this always passed after a day or two and my understanding is that it is fairly normal. It didn't cause a shutdown or problem beyond the faint noises when not in use. Regrettably, it looks very likely that I will be going back to my forty- year old 57s. This is a great pity because in all other respects the 2805s sound wonderful. For me the worry is that I no longer have the 63s. So am now reliant on the 2805s for the main system. The 63s were showing their age in various ways. In particular a level of hum/buzz from the speakers that had slowly been getting louder over the last year or two. I guess various caps needed replacement. But (perhaps unwisely) decided that after 25 years it was time to try the new version rather than have a refurb. Oh well, the 988s still sound good, and I can use headphones or my ancient cone-and-box speakers (Armstrong 602s) for a while. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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"atriage" wrote in message
... On 28/07/2011 23:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Well worth the 5 hours wait. Obsessive examination of OT posts...You *really, really* do need to try and find a life...get out, go for a walk...try and get your mental health back. It seems to me that the posters who need "to try and find a life" are those who have never yet contributed an OT post, yet seem to feel it necessary to criticise those who do, such as "sender" and, well, "atriage". David. |
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On 28/07/2011 12:53, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In , Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In articlexcqdnXAjYbvjl6zTnZ2dnUVZ7qidnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk, blue wrote: ...another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue The reason is simple. To many posts which are nothing to do with audio. Maybe we should do some 'blogging' more about audio. So if anyone is interested, I've spent the morning saying a fond farewell to my c25-year-old ESL63s and installing a new pair of 2805s as their replacements. My main initial impressions a 1) gave them a quick tryout with a Proms recording (Kodaly and Bartok 1st Piano concerto, recorded from the 320k stream a few days ago). Also as contrast some Miles Davis from a fancy reissue of 'Kind of Blue' and the Is that the one 'remixed on an all-tube three-track machine, an old Presto much like the one used for the original recordings?' At least that's what it says on my CD sleeve, and you can hear the added distortion, probably much more clearly on ESLs. -- Eiron. |
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In article , Eiron
wrote: On 28/07/2011 12:53, Jim Lesurf wrote: In , Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In articlexcqdnXAjYbvjl6zTnZ2dnUVZ7qidnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk, blue wrote: ...another week goes by without a post to uk.rec audio, aka uk.rec.norwegian.blue The reason is simple. To many posts which are nothing to do with audio. Maybe we should do some 'blogging' more about audio. So if anyone is interested, I've spent the morning saying a fond farewell to my c25-year-old ESL63s and installing a new pair of 2805s as their replacements. My main initial impressions a 1) gave them a quick tryout with a Proms recording (Kodaly and Bartok 1st Piano concerto, recorded from the 320k stream a few days ago). Also as contrast some Miles Davis from a fancy reissue of 'Kind of Blue' and the Is that the one 'remixed on an all-tube three-track machine, an old Presto much like the one used for the original recordings?' Dunno. Haven't seen that so maybe not. It is the box set with 2CDs, a DVD, and a (transparent blue) Vinyl LP. Out of curiosity and for convenience I made a 96/24 recording of the LP. Sounds OK, but has the usual 'bonuses' for an LP. Ripple warp on the rim, some ticks and pops, and one side clearly (pun) pressed off-center. At least that's what it says on my CD sleeve, and you can hear the added distortion, probably much more clearly on ESLs. Pass on that at present for the reasons already mentioned. Although I've also recently bought the 'All Miles' set of the 'Prestige' albums. Some of those seem very loud and with signs of overload. However for all I know the orginal recordings and LPs were the same... Still, in both cases I enjoy the music. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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On 29/07/2011 12:43, David Looser wrote:
wrote in message ... On 28/07/2011 23:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Well worth the 5 hours wait. Obsessive examination of OT posts...You *really, really* do need to try and find a life...get out, go for a walk...try and get your mental health back. It seems to me that the posters who need "to try and find a life" are those who have never yet contributed an OT post, yet seem to feel it necessary to criticise those who do, such as "sender" and, well, "atriage". Well Mr Luser, you could have contributed to the on-topic part of this thread started by Jim but of course all you really wanted to do was respond to the troll. Like recognises like huh. And you Dave ******man, since you're reading this (aren't you) the same applies. -- |
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On 29/07/2011 09:32, Brian Gaff wrote:
Are you living in a time warp? What about that great post about counterfeit Nike trainers.. giggle. Lol. -- |
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In article ,
David Looser wrote: It seems to me that the posters who need "to try and find a life" are those who have never yet contributed an OT post, yet seem to feel it necessary to criticise those who do, such as "sender" and, well, "atriage". Blue, sender and atriage are the same person. Or at least posting from the same computer. Perhaps situated in some care facility. -- *Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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On 30/07/2011 08:57, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In , David wrote: It seems to me that the posters who need "to try and find a life" are those who have never yet contributed an OT post, yet seem to feel it necessary to criticise those who do, such as "sender" and, well, "atriage". Blue, sender and atriage are the same person. No **** Sherlock, no flies on you are there? You complete and utter ****wit. -- |
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On 30/07/2011 08:57, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Blue, sender and atriage are the same person. Dave Dopey******** has learned how to look at headers, it's a giant step forward for mankind. -- |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote: I went direct to source and have been discussing it with Quad this morning. I'm told that this is probably the mains transformer and a new one is on the way. I'll know more once I've had a go at trying that. T... I'll decide when the transformer and info on how to do the replacement arrive. A couple of replacement transformers arrived this morning. Along with some 63mA fuses. [snip] Bit of a worry a mains transformer failing - and the maker putting their finger on the problem immediately? If it is indeed just a transformer and not a SMPS? -- *Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote: In article , Jim Lesurf wrote: I went direct to source and have been discussing it with Quad this morning. I'm told that this is probably the mains transformer and a new one is on the way. I'll know more once I've had a go at trying that. T... I'll decide when the transformer and info on how to do the replacement arrive. A couple of replacement transformers arrived this morning. Along with some 63mA fuses. [snip] Bit of a worry a mains transformer failing - and the maker putting their finger on the problem immediately? If it is indeed just a transformer and not a SMPS? Transformer. The circuitry is essentially the same as the 988/989 series. And apart from the changes to the limiting arrangements and some tidying up, much like the 63s. Ye Olde Fashined transformer technology. AIUI the diagnosis is on the basis that nothing else would blow the fuse so quickly at switchon. I did wonder if it was some busted diodes or caps in the voltage multiplier stack. But there are some 220k resistors in series between them and the transformer. So it isn't obvious how anything at HV would draw so much primary current. If they'd accidentially fitted much lower resistor values, maybe. But the speaker worked on the first day without any sign of problems. The LV side isn't much more than a 555 and a few odds and sods. To me the only obvious candidate there would be if the LV winding's rectifier bridge has failed. Possible, but not something I'd expect unless they had chosen a piddle-power surge current rated bridge. Or just dead unlucky, (That sounds like me, though! Sod's Law still rules KO. :-) ) In reality, of course, *anything* may fail without warning. And it may just be a dead insect that was trapped as a stowaway and has now fallen across the power wires somewhere inside the box. However at present I'm just proceeding 'as recommended'. If it turns pun out *not* to be the transformer and a new one just blows another fuse my understanding is that they'll send an injuneer with a bigger box of tricks, or replace if necessary. As things stand I'm happy to see if I can change the transformer and if that fixes the problem and it then works Ok, fine with me! If not, there will be more contact, discussion, and acitivity... FWIW I've now got the magic tool (a length of 6 x 12 mm baton) and poked out the top plate and can see the next nut to be undone. However I'm going to have my lunch and maybe water the garden before my next session of semi-informed breaking and entering... One of the things I'll ask them next week is wrt the shape of the assembly that mounts the input connectors, etc. If the top of this had extended another cm or two towards the speaker frame you could probably have space to remove the lid of the box *without* all the other furtling around because at present the brace fouls having to slide the top of the box back. Maybe Quad just have a fetish about 'ultra long tools'... 8-] Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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In article ,
atriage wrote: On 30/07/2011 08:57, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Blue, sender and atriage are the same person. Dave Dopey******** has learned how to look at headers, it's a giant step forward for mankind. Perhaps you'll also find it a help if you ever join that. Just deciding whether to publish your name and address too. -- *Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"atriage" wrote
Well Mr Luser, you could have contributed to the on-topic part of this thread started by Jim but of course all you really wanted to do was respond to the troll. Like recognises like huh. And you Dave ******man, since you're reading this (aren't you) the same applies. Ah, but the difference is that I do contribute on-topic posts when I have something relevant to add, whereas you have never done so under any of your various aliases. Nor do I deliberately mis-spell peoples' names in a childish attempt at being insulting. David. |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
On 30 Jul, wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Jim Lesurf Bit of a worry a mains transformer failing - and the maker putting their finger on the problem immediately? If it is indeed just a transformer and not a SMPS? Transformer. Finally got around to replacing the transformer this afternoon. The speaker then powered up OK and would play music. Too soon as yet to know if it will go wrong again or if my 'repair' has caused some other problem. But so far so good. One nagging worry is that something else *caused* the transformer to fail, so may do so again in the - perhaps near - future! Fingers crossed... Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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On 30/07/2011 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just deciding whether to publish your name and address too. drums fingers on table Well come on the Dopey********, don't be shy, show us all yer new found IT expertise. -- |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote: On 30 Jul, wrote: In article , Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Jim Lesurf Bit of a worry a mains transformer failing - and the maker putting their finger on the problem immediately? If it is indeed just a transformer and not a SMPS? Transformer. Finally got around to replacing the transformer this afternoon. The speaker then powered up OK and would play music. Too soon as yet to know if it will go wrong again or if my 'repair' has caused some other problem. But so far so good. One nagging worry is that something else *caused* the transformer to fail, so may do so again in the - perhaps near - future! Fingers crossed... Does the transformer sort of look marginal to your experienced eye, Jim? Or does it vary from the average mains transformer in design - perhaps to provide the HT? Just seems an unusual thing to fail - and for the factory to put their finger on the fault instantly. -- *Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote: In article , Jim Lesurf wrote: Finally got around to replacing the transformer this afternoon. The speaker then powered up OK and would play music. Too soon as yet to know if it will go wrong again or if my 'repair' has caused some other problem. But so far so good. One nagging worry is that something else *caused* the transformer to fail, so may do so again in the - perhaps near - future! Fingers crossed... Does the transformer sort of look marginal to your experienced eye, Jim? Or does it vary from the average mains transformer in design - perhaps to provide the HT? Just seems an unusual thing to fail - and for the factory to put their finger on the fault instantly. The mains transformer looks fairly substantial to me. The power required is quite modest. (e.g. works with a 63mA mains fuse as standard.) and the HV only takes a tiny trickle in normal use as implied by a couple of 220k series resistors. So it actually is bigger and bulkier than I'd expected and to me it looks like it should be fine for the job. The output for HV is only about 700V rms. The 5kV dc comes from a multiplier stack. FWIW It is a traditional frame transformer with an external scale size of 6 to 7 cm. That said there are a few detailed differences in appearance between the one I removed and the replacement. And there is a '2005.09' code on it that looks like a manufacturing date. If so, it may have sat somewhere cold and damp for a time. But no obvious visible sign of any problems. At some point I may examine it in detail to see if I can detect what is wrong. I guess it is a shorted set of turns somewhere. But at present I'm too busy enjoying music to bother. Tried listening to the Honegger Pacific 231 and Pastorale from a recent Prom this morning. Very good. :-)) Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
Jim Lesurf wrote... But at present I'm too busy enjoying music to bother. Tried listening to the Honegger Pacific 231 and Pastorale from a recent Prom this morning. Very good. :-)) Jim, what is it about the sound of ESL's that has led to you using them for so long? I've never heard a pair but have read many rave reviews, one of the things that comes across is that they need room to breathe, how are yours set up? -- Ken O'Meara http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/ |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article ,
UnsteadyKen wrote: Jim Lesurf wrote... But at present I'm too busy enjoying music to bother. Tried listening to the Honegger Pacific 231 and Pastorale from a recent Prom this morning. Very good. :-)) Jim, what is it about the sound of ESL's that has led to you using them for so long? I've never heard a pair but have read many rave reviews, one of the things that comes across is that they need room to breathe, how are yours set up? For me it is the superbly convincingly 'natural' stereo imaging for excellent source material. e.g. for Proms and other good BBC R3 broadcasts. The instruments are laid out in space beyond the speakers in the acoustic of the hall in a way that sounds like the real thing. The speakers just dissapear with no sense that any sounds are coming from them. I can't really explain this to people. Once heard, you'd know. :-) I suspect this is very much a personal perception thing and that some people simply don't detect this, or care. And I do wonder about the extent to which stereo is a 'trick' that some people aren't 'fooled' by so never do hear it because their hearing is 'too good'. But how do you explain what 'red' really looks like to someone with no colour vision or someone who has never had a chance to see it? They also give an excellent reproduction of human voice, and piano. Again good for R3. But also a recent example is some Linn SACDs of piano music played by Pizarro (Chopin, Ravel, etc). These aren't quite such good images as they are like many CDs - the mics take you 'too close' for my taste. But the clarity of the transients of the notes and the following 'thrum' simply sounds to my ears far more like the real thing than I've heard from other speakers. FWIW for test purposes I made some 96/24 versions from the SACD to make them easier to play and examine.These sound excellent to me, allowing for the over-wide, over-close imaging of the recording. The main drawback people mention is the lack of bass and loudness. I'd say this depends on the room, what you listen to, and how loud you want your music. So again, may or may not affect someone depending on the case. The bass seems fine to me. Indeed, on R3, it seems more 'natural' to me. I'd say the main drawback is that they show up the poor practice of many commercial recordings - issues like mics too close that pick up too much 'presence' range and treble that doesn't actually carry into a hall, or multimic with panpot and echo faked stereo. The other drawback is that if you try them and like them, other speakers won't really 'hit the spot' for you after that. You are hooked. 8-] Positioning in the room (for the listening seat as well as the speakers) is quite fussy. I can understand that in some places the user may never find a satisfactory sound. It initially took many weeks of adjustments until I got what I felt was optimum results. This is with the following geometry: Speaker centers about 180 cm apart and each about 95 cm from the side walls. (Note that the room isn't particularly big!) The speaker centers are about 140 cm from the wall behind them. The paths from each speaker center to my listening position are about 230cm long. My head is actually close to the nominal plane of the wall behind me *but* there is a window bay behind me that means the actual surfaces are a bit further away than the plane of the wall would be if there were no bay. There is also a large 'rug' on the wall behind the speakers. This looks good and helps damp longitundinal modes a bit. The speakers are angled so that the axies perpendicular to their array centers pass in front of me at about chest height when I'm sitting in the chair. However in another room (and for another listeners, etc!) the optimum might be very different. FWIW It is many years since I made much attempt to try out alternative 'new' speakers, simply because what I get from the Quads (inc the new ones which so far sound to me like the 63s on top form) seems ideal to me. But in past days when I tried 'cone and box' I found two things put me off. One was that the bass tended to 'boom' to me. Like a less obvious version of ye olde 'radiogram boom'. The other was imaging that seemed to string things on a washing line *in front* of the speakers unless they were well tilted so their tweeter axis was well away from pointing towards me. For all I know I'd find the best modern 'cone and box' speakers excellent. But don't really care if happy with what I am using. I'd used 57s for many years. (FWIW I also use LS3/5As in another room.) But on a trip to Graham's HiFi one day I was subjected to having to listen to a pair of Isobariks for an hour until I complained that there was no image and that the speakers weren't matched. (When they checked at my insistence they found one had a popped tweeter.) They then very reluctantly brought in a pair of 63s and we used them. They started dismissing them as rubbish compared with the Linns. But for me the sound was the audible equivalent of switching the lights on so I could hear what was where, and identify it clearly! My first hearing of the 63s. Stunning! I got a pair as soon as I had the money and a room big enough. Kept them for 25 years. Only changed now because they clearly needed a refurb or service and on balance I decided to try the 2805s instead. FWIW I did think of the 2905s but decided the room was just too small for them. To me the 2805s do have all the natural charm of the 63s. I'm not yet certain if they sound any 'better' if I ignore why I decided to let go the 63s. Maybe all the extra mass an rigidity helps, maybe not. My jury is out on that, and I can't do any quick AB comparisions. So I just enjoy the results. :-) Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
On 03/08/2011 15:36, UnsteadyKen wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote... But at present I'm too busy enjoying music to bother. Tried listening to the Honegger Pacific 231 and Pastorale from a recent Prom this morning. Very good. :-)) Jim, what is it about the sound of ESL's that has led to you using them for so long? I've never heard a pair but have read many rave reviews, one of the things that comes across is that they need room to breathe, how are yours set up? I had a pair of 988s for a year or two and did find them pretty astonishing. It's difficult for me to explain, but 'uncoloured', 'unresonant', 'precise', pin sharp' perhaps. Bass more in the 'tuneful' than 'deep' camp, and I could never pair them with a REL sub I had successfully. In the main, two things led to selling them. I did find that I had to sit still, pretty much on an axis, or else the tone/image would shift to a much greater extent than I've found with box speakers. The sound remained consistently good, I just found the effect tiresome. The main reason was house room. I tried them in my main listening room, about 14'x11', and that was really too small. They worked a lot better in the study - 18'x11'. They pretty much swamped that room, needing a good 3' from panel to back wall, but now I've moved to a smaller home so they had to go. I was also unconvinced about their durability. One developed a very quiet 'fizz', but that didn't seem to put off the guy who bought them - he drove from Germany and paid more or less what I'd bought them for. If I had the money and room, I'd get another pair. For now I find ATC and Dynaudio speakers just fine. Tonally, the Quads were very similar to some Dynaudio Contour stand mount speakers I have. Rob |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article m, Rob
scribeth thus On 03/08/2011 15:36, UnsteadyKen wrote: Jim Lesurf wrote... But at present I'm too busy enjoying music to bother. Tried listening to the Honegger Pacific 231 and Pastorale from a recent Prom this morning. Very good. :-)) Jim, what is it about the sound of ESL's that has led to you using them for so long? I've never heard a pair but have read many rave reviews, one of the things that comes across is that they need room to breathe, how are yours set up? I had a pair of 988s for a year or two and did find them pretty astonishing. It's difficult for me to explain, but 'uncoloured', 'unresonant', 'precise', pin sharp' perhaps. Bass more in the 'tuneful' than 'deep' camp, and I could never pair them with a REL sub I had successfully. In the main, two things led to selling them. I did find that I had to sit still, pretty much on an axis, or else the tone/image would shift to a much greater extent than I've found with box speakers. The sound remained consistently good, I just found the effect tiresome. The main reason was house room. I tried them in my main listening room, about 14'x11', and that was really too small. They worked a lot better in the study - 18'x11'. They pretty much swamped that room, needing a good 3' from panel to back wall, but now I've moved to a smaller home so they had to go. I was also unconvinced about their durability. One developed a very quiet 'fizz', but that didn't seem to put off the guy who bought them - he drove from Germany and paid more or less what I'd bought them for. Owing the 6 kV odd HT there is sometimes a bit of static discharge which is sometimes due to the humidity or damp but usually nothing to worry about. What is are loud cracking noises! Not good and expensive;!... If I had the money and room, I'd get another pair. For now I find ATC and Dynaudio speakers just fine. Tonally, the Quads were very similar to some Dynaudio Contour stand mount speakers I have. Rob -- Tony Sayer |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
Snip
I got a pair as soon as I had the money and a room big enough. Kept them for 25 years. Only changed now because they clearly needed a refurb or service and on balance I decided to try the 2805s instead. FWIW I did think of the 2905s but decided the room was just too small for them. To me the 2805s do have all the natural charm of the 63s. I'm not yet certain if they sound any 'better' if I ignore why I decided to let go the 63s. Maybe all the extra mass an rigidity helps, maybe not. My jury is out on that, and I can't do any quick AB comparisions. So I just enjoy the results. :-) Slainte, Jim Sums them up very well. They are sometimes too neutral, accurate and flat for some. If you like a nice "tone" then you should be looking elsewhere;!.... -- Tony Sayer |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article m, Rob
wrote: I had a pair of 988s for a year or two and did find them pretty astonishing. It's difficult for me to explain, but 'uncoloured', 'unresonant', 'precise', pin sharp' perhaps. Bass more in the 'tuneful' than 'deep' camp, and I could never pair them with a REL sub I had successfully. I've managed to get a sub working OK with the 988s I use in the living room 'AV' system (just stereo, of course). But never found any happy combination of a sub with the old 63s in the hifi room. I guess this is partly a matter of different room acoustics, and partly a matter of different source material. In the main, two things led to selling them. I did find that I had to sit still, pretty much on an axis, or else the tone/image would shift to a much greater extent than I've found with box speakers. The sound remained consistently good, I just found the effect tiresome. I recognise what you mean. Even optimally set up I experience something similar. I tend to regard them as the 'biggest pair of virtual headphones in the world' in some ways. The best result means having your head in about the right location to get your ears in the right places wrt the invisible large headphones floating in space. So then a matter of getting this spatial volume wide enough and conveniently placed. The details of the effect as you move depend in details like the angling of the speakers. But again I guess in some rooms this all may be totally impractical. Bit like the challenge of using an internal antenna for radio. In some rooms, easy, in others it requires the antenna to float in space somewhere impractical. Bottom line for me, though, is that I never heard any other speakers give such imaging as you get once your head is in about the right place. So other speakers 'get it wrong everywhere' from my POV, whereas the Quads 'get it superbly right' but only in a limited range of listening positions. I was also unconvinced about their durability. One developed a very quiet 'fizz', but that didn't seem to put off the guy who bought them - he drove from Germany and paid more or less what I'd bought them for. I've found that various faint 'fizz' or 'tick' sounds can appear, but then evaporate again a few hours or days later. I'm afraid this is par for the course with an ESL. However with the 63s and 988s these problems have seemed rare and fleeting. My fingers are crossed that the 2805s do as well. If so, I'll be happy. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
On 04/08/2011 16:28, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In aweb.com, Rob wrote: I had a pair of 988s for a year or two and did find them pretty astonishing. It's difficult for me to explain, but 'uncoloured', 'unresonant', 'precise', pin sharp' perhaps. Bass more in the 'tuneful' than 'deep' camp, and I could never pair them with a REL sub I had successfully. I've managed to get a sub working OK with the 988s I use in the living room 'AV' system (just stereo, of course). But never found any happy combination of a sub with the old 63s in the hifi room. I guess this is partly a matter of different room acoustics, and partly a matter of different source material. In the main, two things led to selling them. I did find that I had to sit still, pretty much on an axis, or else the tone/image would shift to a much greater extent than I've found with box speakers. The sound remained consistently good, I just found the effect tiresome. I recognise what you mean. Even optimally set up I experience something similar. I tend to regard them as the 'biggest pair of virtual headphones in the world' in some ways. The best result means having your head in about the right location to get your ears in the right places wrt the invisible large headphones floating in space. So the 'virtual point source' doesn't really work? Who was it who claimed to use four stacked ESL63s either side of his desk as the world's biggest pair of headphones? -- Eiron. |
Quad ESL2805 [was: And so...]
In article , Eiron
wrote: On 04/08/2011 16:28, Jim Lesurf wrote: I recognise what you mean. Even optimally set up I experience something similar. I tend to regard them as the 'biggest pair of virtual headphones in the world' in some ways. The best result means having your head in about the right location to get your ears in the right places wrt the invisible large headphones floating in space. So the 'virtual point source' doesn't really work? You'd have to be more specific in the definition of words like 'virtual' to decide. :-) It clearly cannot act as a true point source because the array beams field patterns to front and rear, and does so in antiphase between fore and aft. Whereas a true 'point source' can only generate a spherically symmetric wave pattern. However the phased array does synthesise an approximation to point source *like* behaviour in the far field of the array in directions near to the normal though the center of the array. In the near field and/or well away from this axis the behaviour will vary. Also note that *in a room* you also get the room reflections and will be affected by any difference in flight time delays along the paths from speakers to ears. So unless you sit symmetrically wrt the speaker pair and have a reasonably symmetric room acoustic the stereo image will be affected in various ways. Quite a lot of the fiddling about with location, angles, etc, in a room will, I guess, be to try an optimise the effects of these influences. In terms of imaging it may be more significant that the effective size of the radiating source roughly scales with wavelength over a reasonable range of frequencies, and the speakers do 'beam' in a controlled way. Thus the details of how they may excite room modes will be different to conventional speakers. You may therefore get a higher ratio of 'direct' to 'sidewall reflected' and 'ceiling and floor reflected' sound than with other speakers, and the ratio doesn't change abruptly at the region where a normal speaker has its crossover from woofer to tweeter. Have you encountered Floyd Toole's papers or his book on the speakers and room effects? So far as I recall he didn't deal with the 'Quad array' but I think what he says about conventional speakers and rooms is very interesting. Who was it who claimed to use four stacked ESL63s either side of his desk as the world's biggest pair of headphones? Pass. ...No, I don't mean 'Nelson Pass'. I mean 'Mastermind Pass'. ;- Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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