Despite that, I'd agree that an LP can reproduce "accurately" down to
around 50Hz,[1] *provided* you take care to define the situation in terms
of the level, amount of distortion, background noise/ripple/rumble/etc, and
any other sounds you expect to be "accurately" reproduce at the same time.
Recording and replaying a low sinewave is possible if you define
"accurately" and keep down the level, ignore noise, etc.

Somewhere below 20Hz, of course, the arm-stylus resonance will act as a LP
filter (and help protect you from having ripples passed on thought the
system).

Slainte,

Jim

[1] I do have a few LPs that have noticable tones/notes below about 40Hz.
But these are quite unusual, and are where almost nothing else is playing
that would limit the level to being below direct audibility.


Jim...

You should know better by now that some like Keith of here departed just
"like" the sound and coloration of Vinyl. It's just how they are and no
reasoning will change that ;!...

--
Tony Sayer

"recursor" wrote in message
...

my part in this thread was only a reply to Arny who said that notes below
100 Hz are not present on vinyl...which is ********.

Of course I said no such thing, I did say:

"Not only is the LP format inherently incompetent for DC signals, it is in
pretty dire circumstances while trying to accurately reproduce low frequency
AC, which is to say anything below about 100 Hz."

Just pointing out the inability of some mentally deficient humans to
remember facts with any semblance of accuracy.

"recursor" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 12/24/2011 10:32 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
The human ear/brain combo may very well construct notes which aren't
there. However the ear can hear down to 50 Hz and good vinyl recordings
can reproduce the 50 Hz frequencies made by the double bass and the
celtic harp. No doubt in the recording studio superior bass
amplification techniques/equipment are needed for this to happen but my
part in this thread was only a reply to Arny who said that notes below
100 Hz are not present on vinyl...which is ********.

Arny didn't say that. Just that vinyl can't *accurately* reproduce
signals
below 100 Hz.

Which is ********.

The reason why was explained, but of course it all shot over your head.

Very sad.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

You should know better by now that some like Keith of here departed just
"like" the sound and coloration of Vinyl. It's just how they are and no
reasoning will change that ;!...

People who say they like the coloration of vinyl make far more sense to me
than those who deny that vinyl's obvious colorations exist.

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

Two random remarks:

Java Jive wrote in
:

I also rejigged the pickup wiring underneath the arm mounting so
that it drops off at a smaller radius. As the arm tracks through
its maximum sweep, the drop-off point now only moves through an arc
of about 5mm in length, whereas after the first rewiring it was
moving through about 50mm, and as expected this has greatly
improved the tracking.

A tangential tracking turntable would be a solution.

Yes this worked. I've now re-recorded the entire collection, and
listened critically to the most important half or so of it.

You digitised your entire record collection? IMO it's not economical
to digitise vinyl in DIY as long as the same albums are available on
CD commercially. You'll spend 2 hours minimum recording, post
processing and burning the tracks of a single album, and that is not
counting the time for scanning the artwork. Unless you value or own
free time very low, just buying the same album on CD is much more
cost effective.

... but which misses a lot of the 'fun' and therapeutic benefit of
producing something to your satisfaction, or for your ear.

... and your own time is effectively free of charge to yourself, buying
a number of cd's isn't at all, assuming you can find them in the first
place.

--
Paul - xxx
"You know, all I wanna do is race .. and all I wanna do is win"
Mark Cavendish, World Champion 2011
BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2011

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 15:05:42 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

Apparently different people handle this differently. Personally I see
my own free time as valuable, see my reasoning


Do you have children? Do you take them to the park to play football?
What does a professional coach earn per hour? You should charge them -
deduct it from their pocket money. I'm glad I don't have to live in
your private hell.

d

On 12/24/2011 02:50 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 15:05:42 +0100, Wolfgang
wrote:

Apparently different people handle this differently. Personally I see
my own free time as valuable, see my reasoning


Do you have children? Do you take them to the park to play football?
What does a professional coach earn per hour? You should charge them -
deduct it from their pocket money. I'm glad I don't have to live in
your private hell.


Prefer your own little hell do you? Now there's a surprise.

In article ,
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
charles wrote in
:

In article ,
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

[Snip]

You digitised your entire record collection? IMO it's not economical
to digitise vinyl in DIY as long as the same albums are available on
CD commercially. You'll spend 2 hours minimum recording, post
processing and burning the tracks of a single album, and that is not
counting the time for scanning the artwork. Unless you value or own
free time very low, just buying the same album on CD is much more
cost effective.

It might be more cost effective to buy CDs, but doing it yourself
doesn't involve financial outlay. I have 300+ LPs in the loft. To
replace them with CD would cost a lot of money which, since I live on
a pension, isn't a practical proposition. My time only costs me if by
digitising a CD I have to pay someone else to do another job that I
could do myself. And in any case, I can do other things when the LP
is playing, I don't need to monitor it all the time.

This assumes that you value your own time very little. Of course that
is your choice, but I don't think many people would do the same. A
reasonable question to ask is: How much would you demand as a salary if
someone else wanted you to do the same work, or alternatively: How much
would you be prepared to pay for not having to do this chore? If the
answers are higher than the current street price of the same CDs, you
shouldn't do it.

Being retired, I don't have a great deal of choice in the matter, as I
explained above.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 11:49:15 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

In article ,
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

[Snip]

You digitised your entire record collection? IMO it's not economical to
digitise vinyl in DIY as long as the same albums are available on CD
commercially. You'll spend 2 hours minimum recording, post processing
and burning the tracks of a single album, and that is not counting the
time for scanning the artwork. Unless you value or own free time very
low, just buying the same album on CD is much more cost effective.

That is true, but is unhelpful when the vast majority of LPs that I
have left were never published on CD, or if they were, only briefly
and have since been deleted.* Most of those available on CD I've
already replaced.

It might be more cost effective to buy CDs, but doing it yourself doesn't
involve financial outlay. I have 300+ LPs in the loft. To replace them
with CD would cost a lot of money which, since I live on a pension, isn't a
practical proposition. My time only costs me if by digitising a CD I have
to pay someone else to do another job that I could do myself. And in any
case, I can do other things when the LP is playing, I don't need to monitor
it all the time.

Exactly. As I've already stated up thread, now I certainly wouldn't
be throwing good money after a not so good medium like vinyl by, say,
buying a vinyl washer, but I already had it from some years ago.

* Much of the entire history of UK folk music from about the late '60s
through the '70s and '80s to the early '90s was only ever published on
LP, or perhaps only briefly republished on CD, so the only way to get
copies of these now is either from a second-hand LP or by downloading
someone else's digitisation of the CD - given the illegality, and
perhaps more importantly usually the poor bitrates, of the latter, the
former might be considered preferable, certainly so if you already
happen to own the LP.

Small labels - like Leader, Highway, Rubber - gradually went bust,
and were bought up by other concerns, many of them by one particularly
controversial one called Celtic Music. This label was and may very
well still be subject to a Musicians' Union 'notice' (being only ever
an amateur, I'm not a member so I can't link to it), concerning its,
how shall I state this, behaviour that might be considered 'unfair' or
'unfriendly' to the musician? This behaviour has also been much
discussed, often very emotively, in public forums such as
www.mudcat.org.

The treatment of Nic Jones has been the subject of the most heated
controversy. While driving home from a gig in the '80s, Nic had an
accident that effectively ended his musical carreer - hand and brain
damage. Much of his most important output til then had been recorded
for his friend Bill Leader's eponymous label. I'm not certain of the
precise history of the label, but I think Bill died sometime after
Nic's accident, and the label went bust around the same time. What is
not in dispute, about the only thing that isn't, is that CM 'claim' to
own the rights of all the Leader recordings, including Nic's. None of
these recordings have ever been properly published in a legally
transparent way on CD accountable to MCPS ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCPS-PRS_Alliance
.... but instead there are whispers of CD-R recordings where no
royalties need to be paid to the artist.

All I know for certain is:

:-) An early and particularly fine Barbara Dickson album "From the
Beggar's Mantle" that I bought apparently from CM turned out, to my
relief, to be a pukka CD from Decca.

:-( I contacted Nic's wife Julia concerning one of Nic's early
albums of which I'd seen a CD for sale somewhere, asking whether, if I
bought it, Nic would get any royalties, and when she answered no, I
didn't buy the album, much as I wanted it.

:-) Nic's last and best album, Pengun Eggs, was fortunately
published on Topic, and is thus still available even on CD:
http://www.nicjones.net/shop?shopPag...gs_n ic_jones

But quite apart from the CM horror story, normal commercial pressures
have killed off a lot of original recordings. This is a problem not
just for folk music, but also for other minority genres such as Music
Hall.

For example, my collection includedes the following albums, AFAIAA
none of which have ever been available on CD, and all of which are so
good that I consider myself lucky to have them ...

Bandoggs: (eponymous album)
Dab Hand: High Rock And Low Glen
Cilla Fisher: Songs Of The Fishing
Dubliners: Finnegan Wakes
Dubliners: Live At The Royal Albert Hall
Eddie Walker: Red Shoes On My Feet
Ewan MacColl & Peggy Seeger: World Of
Filarfolket: Live!
Galliards: Scottish Choice
Gerry Hallom: A Run A Minute
Gerry Hallom: Travellin' Down The Castlereagh
House Band: (eponymous album)
Nic Jones: Noah's Ark Trap

.... while the rest of the collection contain countless individual
tracks, usually about three or four per album, that I didn't want to
lose, as well as some 'family' albums of my mother's which other
members of my family have occasionally expressed an interest in
hearing again.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
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In article , Don Pearce
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 15:05:42 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

Apparently different people handle this differently. Personally I see
my own free time as valuable, see my reasoning


Do you have children? Do you take them to the park to play football?
What does a professional coach earn per hour? You should charge them -
deduct it from their pocket money. I'm glad I don't have to live in your
private hell.

I do see my time as 'valuable' in the sense that I have to choose between
various things I wish to do, or have some reason to do. However...

This morning I spent half an hour making some cranberry sauce for tomorrow.
Of course, if I was thinking I had to 'charge myself' the rates I used to
get at times for some work this would have 'cost' me vastly more than
buying a jar in M&S.

But I enjoyed making it, and the recipy I use includes port, orange juice
and zest, cinnamon stick, stem ginger, and cloves. We think it tastes nicer
than shop cranberry sauce. So it seems daft to apply a "time equals money"
to everything you do. We don't live to work, even if we have to spend some
of our time working to live.

And I didn't actually charge myself.

My oldest brother once said to me, "You spend a lot of your life working,
so, if you can, choose work you enjoy doing. That is worth far more than
money." I found that good advice. Maybe I could have piled up more money by
doing other jobs, and putting in more hours. But I chose not to. I guess I
was fortunate, though, in that my interests and skills turned out to be in
things like engineering which I could use to get jobs I liked and paid
enough to keep me happy - and gave me some 'free' time to do as I chose.

Have a really Happy Christmas,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
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