In article ,
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Why do you find ring mains odd? Once you have daisy chained all the
sockets it is an extremely sensible idea to complete the loop back to

If you happen to have laid them out in a ring manner anyway, yes.

Why wouldn't you? There are less runs back to the CU than doing the same
with radials, so surely not too difficult to design?

the distribution board. For the cost of a few feet of cable, you have
halved both the effective resistance of the mains and the distance to
the furthest socket. I can't imagine a single reason not to do it.

d

I can see the halving of the resistance (well, at the most remote point
anyway), but not the halving of the distance.

I think maintenance (I mean when modifying, not just general wear and
tear): most extras added to ring mains are spurs. (Also, instinctively,
it's easier to know when one is isolated with a spur, though that
shouldn't be done that way.)

You are allowed to add spurs within the regs, but why is it so much more
difficult to simply add a socket properly to the ring?

--
*Certain frogs can be frozen solid, then thawed, and survive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Thanks for confirming we can add flex ratings to the things you know
nothing about.

Conductors rated at only 1A are very thin - sufficiently so that they do
not have great mechanical strength.

Where will you find an appliance sold fitted with 1A flex and a 13 amp
plug?

Therefore Jerry's statement that
mains leads (in US: line cords) are likely to have a higher rating than
absolutely necessary is valid.

All appliances now sold in the UK (and elsewhere in Europe) are capable of
blowing a 13 amp fuse in event of a fault on the line chord.

Especially if they're of the sort that
has a connector at both ends: if there's a chance that they might be
used for an appliance that draws more, then it is unwise to use
low-current wire/cable for them.

Same with extensions etc sold in the UK.

(I am not on either side in the argument between Jerry and others: I
live in UK, but still find ring mains odd.)

I can understand this, as practice is what matters. Diversity loading.
Not some theoretical maybe as Jerry insist on bringing up - even although
it has been explained to him time and time again.

Final ring circuits are for domestic premises only. For workshops or
offices where you have known fixed loads you'd stick to radials. As you'd
do for fixed heating in a domestic scenario.

--
*Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:53:37 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

(excluding the US and Canada) and Japan, drive on the wrong side of
the road, AS COMPARED TO_EVERYWHERE_. Sorry, but THAT is weird. The
It's not the wrong side, it's the left side (-:.


UK, Australia, New Zealand, India. All left side (proper side)
drivers.

Add Japan and most of Africa (Where the drivers don't just stick to the
ruts, which normally match the track of a Land Rover.

Currently, the split is about 50/50 in terms of the number of countries
which drive on which side.

After all, the Right side is the right side...

On 30/01/2012 16:24, Arny Krueger wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:53:37 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

(excluding the US and Canada) and Japan, drive on the wrong side of
the road, AS COMPARED TO_EVERYWHERE_. Sorry, but THAT is weird. The
It's not the wrong side, it's the left side (-:.


UK, Australia, New Zealand, India. All left side (proper side)
drivers.

Add Japan and most of Africa (Where the drivers don't just stick to the
ruts, which normally match the track of a Land Rover.

Currently, the split is about 50/50 in terms of the number of countries
which drive on which side.

After all, the Right side is the right side...



You mean the French side

Ron

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On 30/01/2012 16:24, Arny Krueger wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:53:37 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

(excluding the US and Canada) and Japan, drive on the wrong side of
the road, AS COMPARED TO_EVERYWHERE_. Sorry, but THAT is weird. The
It's not the wrong side, it's the left side (-:.


UK, Australia, New Zealand, India. All left side (proper side)
drivers.

Add Japan and most of Africa (Where the drivers don't just stick to the
ruts, which normally match the track of a Land Rover.

Currently, the split is about 50/50 in terms of the number of countries
which drive on which side.

After all, the Right side is the right side...



You mean the French side

and German and...

The good news is that most of the major car manufacturers have figured out
to make cars of either format on the same production line, etc.

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:24:28h -0500, Arny Krueger declared:

After all, the Right side is the right side...

Will somebody not think of the bus drivers?

Is it easier for bus drivers to take fares and issue tickets
to people boarding the bus from the left hand side or the
right hand side when usually most bus drivers are right handed?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 08:25:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Don Pearce
writes:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:48:39 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

(I am not on either side in the argument between Jerry and others: I
live in UK, but still find ring mains odd.)

Why do you find ring mains odd? Once you have daisy chained all the
sockets it is an extremely sensible idea to complete the loop back to

If you happen to have laid them out in a ring manner anyway, yes.

the distribution board. For the cost of a few feet of cable, you have
halved both the effective resistance of the mains and the distance to
the furthest socket. I can't imagine a single reason not to do it.

d

I can see the halving of the resistance (well, at the most remote point
anyway), but not the halving of the distance.


For the most remote socket, the distance can be reduced to almost zero
by completing the loop (assuming the run goes around the house and
almost back again. For any socket beyond half distance, the run is
reduced. Half was just an estimate.

I think maintenance (I mean when modifying, not just general wear and
tear): most extras added to ring mains are spurs. (Also, instinctively,
it's easier to know when one is isolated with a spur, though that
shouldn't be done that way.)

Spurs are allowed on a ring main, but to a single point only (which
can of course be a double socket).

d

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:43:42h -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message

You mean the French side

and German and...

Most of the map at http://en.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic
is red.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:55:38 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:43:42h -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message

You mean the French side

and German and...

Most of the map at http://en.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic
is red.

The good bits are blue.

d

"J G Miller" wrote in message
...
On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:24:28h -0500, Arny Krueger declared:

After all, the Right side is the right side...

Will somebody not think of the bus drivers?

Is it easier for bus drivers to take fares and issue tickets
to people boarding the bus from the left hand side or the
right hand side when usually most bus drivers are right handed?

It must be a long time since you were last on a bus.

--
JohnT