In article , says...

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:54:56 +0000, Terry Casey wrote:

Were both channels available nationwide or just in densely
populated areas?

Are you talking about channels or stations?

Stations (sorry - copied what the OP wrote ...)


In the analog days of television in Bundesrepblik Germany, the three public networks
ARD Das Erste, ZDF, and die Dritten Fernsehprogramme (regional TV stations)
were available nationwide but as is the case in all countries (except Netherlands
and Vlaanderen), transmitter coverage was not 100%.


The OP was referring to VHF transmissions in the 60s and 70s - are you
sure you are not wandering of into UHF territory here? That would make a
considerable difference to coverage ...

--

Terry

On 08/02/2012 14:18, Mortimer wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
Three-phase wiring has been harmonised from red, blue and yellow for the
phases and black neutral to brown, black, black and blue neutral. Yeah,
I know...

You mean that two of the phases are the *same* colour? Surely not: how
do you know whether it's safe to connect two wires if they could be on
different phases? And if you connect brown, black and black to a three
phase motor and get the two blacks the wrong way round it will run
backwards.

It's brown, black. grey, blue. Still stupid and difficult for those with
colour blindness or working in low light.

Ron

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Terry Casey writes

Finally, the sleeving was changed from green to green/yellow ..

IIRC, it was to make it easier for colour-blind people to identify.

There's also been another change: the cores in T&E (=romex) used to be
red and black for phase and neutral, now it's been harmonised with
Europe to brown and blue.

Three-phase wiring has been harmonised from red, blue and yellow for the
phases and black neutral to brown, black, black and blue neutral. Yeah,
I know...

BS7671 says that the colours are brown, black and grey, with blue for
neutral.

David.

In article , Mortimer
writes

You mean that two of the phases are the *same* colour?

Yes.

Surely not

Unbelievable but true. Foisted on us by the Eurocrats in Brussels.

: how do
you know whether it's safe to connect two wires if they could be on
different phases?

you don't

And if you connect brown, black and black to a three phase
motor and get the two blacks the wrong way round it will run backwards.

precisely.

I can see the benefit in changing from red+black to brown+blue in T&E as
those are the same colours used in flex, but to go from our previous
widely understood red/yellow/blue + black to the new scheme is less
convincing.

The idea, I think, was to continue the concept that the brown wire is
phase and blue neutral for consistency, but to use two black wires for
the second and third phases... words fail me.

See this:

http://jasper.org.uk/ingleses.jpg

this was an installation where a distribution board built in Britain was
shipped to a remote location in Europe. The Spanish electricians needed
a crib sheet to match up the colours correctly :-)

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article , David Looser
writes

BS7671 says that the colours are brown, black and grey, with blue for
neutral.

Must have changed, then, 'cos I have seen several installations with
brown/black/black and blue. Also see the pic I posted earlier - look at
the Spanish names for the harmonised colours.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , David Looser
writes

BS7671 says that the colours are brown, black and grey, with blue for
neutral.

Must have changed, then, 'cos I have seen several installations with
brown/black/black and blue.

BS7671 permits the use of other colours as long as the ends of the wires are
clearly labelled "L1", "L2" etc. I guess the installers simply didn't have
any grey cable.

Also see the pic I posted earlier - look at
the Spanish names for the harmonised colours.

L1 is brown, yet your picture has "negro" against L1, so I'm not sure that
we can place any confidence in its veracity.

David.

In article , David Looser
writes

BS7671 permits the use of other colours as long as the ends of the wires are
clearly labelled "L1", "L2" etc. I guess the installers simply didn't have
any grey cable.

No, this is an armoured underground cable with cores in the colours
stated.

L1 is brown, yet your picture has "negro" against L1, so I'm not sure that
we can place any confidence in its veracity.

shrug I took the photo, and have seen the installation several times.
Here's another photo, since you seem to have trouble handling the truth:

http://jasper.org.uk/disboard.jpg

Let's not talk about the croc clips, shall we? :-)

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Wednesday, February 8th, 2012, at 14:30:22 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

Yes, but don't forget the Belgian system H with 1.25MHz vsb ...

I've never actually come across it. Is it actually used?

Do you think there are still analog TV transmissions in Belgium, a
neighboring country whose capital is less distance (198 miles)
away from London than Edinburgh (332 miles)?

RTBF ceased the last analog TV transmissions on March 1st, 2010.

http://www.dvb.ORG/about_dvb/dvb_worldwide/belgium/index.xml

http://www.youtube.COM/watch?v=fY8rEjT7LeU

http://www.youtube.COM/watch?v=HoJYJUYtZGU

The VRT ceased analog TV transmissions on November 3rd, 2008.

Meanwhile analog TV transmissions continue in England and Northern Ireland ...

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , David Looser
writes

BS7671 permits the use of other colours as long as the ends of the wires
are
clearly labelled "L1", "L2" etc. I guess the installers simply didn't have
any grey cable.

No, this is an armoured underground cable with cores in the colours
stated.

Then it doesn't conform to EU harmonised colours.

L1 is brown, yet your picture has "negro" against L1, so I'm not sure that
we can place any confidence in its veracity.

shrug I took the photo, and have seen the installation several times.
Here's another photo, since you seem to have trouble handling the truth:

The "truth" is that the harmonised colours for three-phase are brown, black
and grey. If anyone is having problems handling the the truth then its you
I'm afraid. The photos only tell us about the one installation, who says it
conforms to the harmonised colours?

Its quite possible that the colours written-in are old pre-harmonisation
Spanish colours.

David.

"J G Miller" wrote

Meanwhile analog TV transmissions continue in England and Northern Ireland
...

And??

David.