"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:

Several hundred dollars worth of 12 gauge Romex and accessories were
involved. Simple things like putting the garbage disposal, microwave,
and toaster oven each on their own circuits make a big difference.

Romex is roughly what we call Twin and Earth in the UK?

Googling shows pictures that are nearly identical if not exactly identical.

What you're saying is radial circuits are commonly overloaded in some way?

Not commonly, but occasionally in older dwellings. Most of what you are
talking about is due to motor starting surges, so the light dimming is
pretty much cosmetic. Not that I would intentionally tolerate it.

All of those (and more) would work just fine on the one UK circuit.

Given that our toaster ovens use up about 95% of a 15 amp circuit, two of
them put a quick end to 15a fuses and pretty quickly open 15a breakers. The
larger microwaves are only a little lighter on the draw, so a microwave and
a toaster oven on the same circuit won't be very relaible, either. Ditto for
our larger electric coffee and tea pots. I don't know how to get around
that.


Current price for 2.5mm TW&E in the UK (for final ring circuits) is about
45 gbp per 100 mtrs before tax.

That checks out.


If my tables are right, 2.5 mm is about 10 gauge, which is a lot more
copper than our 12 gauge. Almost twice as much. We consider 10 gauge to be
suitable for 30 amp wiring, which would indeed handle two devices from the
list microwaves, toasters, coffee pots, etc. A garbage disposal could run
on the same circuit without tripping or frying anything. Probably no light
dimming, either. And, that is at 120 volts!

250 feet of 10/3 romex runs about $200. I wonder why people aren't
importing wire from the UK - your prices are pretty cheap!

..

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 12:59:49 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

If my tables are right, 2.5 mm is about 10 gauge, which is a lot more
copper than our 12 gauge.

It is called 2.5mm, but it is actually 2.5 square mm, which is about
your 12 gauge.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 12:59:49 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

If my tables are right, 2.5 mm is about 10 gauge, which is a lot more
copper than our 12 gauge.

It is called 2.5mm, but it is actually 2.5 square mm, which is about
your 12 gauge.


Well you still have the doubled advantage of feeding the ring from both ends
and using twice the voltage.

I'm not so sure about rings, but the doubled voltage looks good to me given
that I would have enough appliances that ran on 240 volts to be interesting.
I don't.

In article , Arny Krueger
writes

I'm not so sure about rings, but the doubled voltage looks good to me given
that I would have enough appliances that ran on 240 volts to be interesting.
I don't.

Think about it - your kettle would boil in half the time :-)

A colleague went to work in the USA and complained about the weedy
kettles over there that take forever to boil. I suggested he take a UK
230V kettle over with him and run it off an extension to his stove
connection (i.e. 220V). Dunno if he ever bothered.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Arny Krueger
writes

I'm not so sure about rings, but the doubled voltage looks good to me
given
that I would have enough appliances that ran on 240 volts to be
interesting.
I don't.

Think about it - your kettle would boil in half the time :-)

I get it. However, the 2-3 minute boil times I get with our current
technology seem to work out well enough.

I can boil 12 ounces of water in about 2 minutes in my 1200 watt microwave.

I can boil almost 2 liters of water in about 3 minutes in a 1500 watt
plastic pot with a built-in heatnig element.

In both cases the starting temperature of the water is about 45 degrees (F).

When I have people over for tea I set the pot to boiling when they arrive
and then reheat it in a few dozen seconds when needed.

A colleague went to work in the USA and complained about the weedy
kettles over there that take forever to boil. I suggested he take a UK
230V kettle over with him and run it off an extension to his stove
connection (i.e. 220V). Dunno if he ever bothered.

Seems like overkill, given the alternatives.

On 06/02/2012 13:18, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Mike wrote in message
...
In articlePImdnRhFWezLuLHSnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@giganews. com, Arny Krueger
writes

I'm not so sure about rings, but the doubled voltage looks good to me
given
that I would have enough appliances that ran on 240 volts to be
interesting.
I don't.

Think about it - your kettle would boil in half the time :-)

I get it. However, the 2-3 minute boil times I get with our current
technology seem to work out well enough.

I can boil 12 ounces of water in about 2 minutes in my 1200 watt microwave.

I can boil almost 2 liters of water in about 3 minutes in a 1500 watt
plastic pot with a built-in heatnig element.

In both cases the starting temperature of the water is about 45 degrees (F).

When I have people over for tea I set the pot to boiling when they arrive
and then reheat it in a few dozen seconds when needed.

A colleague went to work in the USA and complained about the weedy
kettles over there that take forever to boil. I suggested he take a UK
230V kettle over with him and run it off an extension to his stove
connection (i.e. 220V). Dunno if he ever bothered.

Seems like overkill, given the alternatives.


Oh good, we're going to argue about who can boil a kettle the fastest...
you couldn`t make it up!

Ron

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On 06/02/2012 13:18, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Mike wrote in message
...
In articlePImdnRhFWezLuLHSnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@giganews. com, Arny Krueger
writes

I'm not so sure about rings, but the doubled voltage looks good to me
given
that I would have enough appliances that ran on 240 volts to be
interesting.
I don't.

Think about it - your kettle would boil in half the time :-)

I get it. However, the 2-3 minute boil times I get with our current
technology seem to work out well enough.

I can boil 12 ounces of water in about 2 minutes in my 1200 watt
microwave.

I can boil almost 2 liters of water in about 3 minutes in a 1500 watt
plastic pot with a built-in heatnig element.

In both cases the starting temperature of the water is about 45 degrees
(F).

When I have people over for tea I set the pot to boiling when they arrive
and then reheat it in a few dozen seconds when needed.

A colleague went to work in the USA and complained about the weedy
kettles over there that take forever to boil. I suggested he take a UK
230V kettle over with him and run it off an extension to his stove
connection (i.e. 220V). Dunno if he ever bothered.

Seems like overkill, given the alternatives.


Oh good, we're going to argue about who can boil a kettle the fastest...
you couldn`t make it up!

No argument - the UK ring system seems to be vastly superior over our US 15
and 20 amp circuits when it comes to delivering more actual AC power to
appliances.

On Monday, February 6th, 2012, at 13:47:19h +0000, Ron exclaimed:

Oh good, we're going to argue about who can boil a kettle the fastest...
you couldn`t make it up!

It is now time to call in the experts to discuss whether or not
quickly boiled water tastes better than slowly boiled water,
depending of course on how it is going to be used, probably
for making tea.

This should keep the thread going for at least another 50 posts.

In message , Ron
writes
On 06/02/2012 13:18, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Mike wrote in message
...
In articlePImdnRhFWezLuLHSnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@giganews. com, Arny Krueger
writes

I'm not so sure about rings, but the doubled voltage looks good to me
given
that I would have enough appliances that ran on 240 volts to be
interesting.
I don't.

Think about it - your kettle would boil in half the time :-)

I get it. However, the 2-3 minute boil times I get with our current
technology seem to work out well enough.

I can boil 12 ounces of water in about 2 minutes in my 1200 watt microwave.

I can boil almost 2 liters of water in about 3 minutes in a 1500 watt
plastic pot with a built-in heatnig element.

In both cases the starting temperature of the water is about 45 degrees (F).

When I have people over for tea I set the pot to boiling when they arrive
and then reheat it in a few dozen seconds when needed.

A colleague went to work in the USA and complained about the weedy
kettles over there that take forever to boil. I suggested he take a UK
230V kettle over with him and run it off an extension to his stove
connection (i.e. 220V). Dunno if he ever bothered.

Seems like overkill, given the alternatives.


Oh good, we're going to argue about who can boil a kettle the
fastest... you couldn`t make it up!

OK then.

Assuming it survives long enough, a 120V kettle run on 240V will boil in
less than a quarter of the time. [Note 'quarter', not 'half', as twice
the voltage will provide four times the power.]

Conversely, a 240V kettle run on 120V will take more than four times the
normal time to boil. In fact, it literally could take forever to boil. I
know this to be true as I once took a single-voltage UK travel kettle on
a holiday in the USA!

These apparent anomalies are because, unless it's perfectly insulated,
as a kettle heats up it will radiate more and more heat.

Consider the case of the 240V kettle on a 120V supply. The rate of heat
radiation eventually may balance the rate of electrical input, so a
state of equilibrium is reached before the kettle boils. No matter how
long you leave it (or even watch it), it will never boil. It's therefore
a pretty good guess that, on a 240V supply, a 120V kettle will boil in
less than half the time.

BTW, for my next trip to the USA, I made sure that I took a dual voltage
kettle. I can confidently report that, when on the correct voltage
setting, it seemed to boil just as quickly as it had done in the UK.
--
Ian

In article , Arny Krueger
writes

Seems like overkill, given the alternatives.

I think you forget that the UK population is fuelled by gallons of tea.
The quicker this can be achieved, the better :-)

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")