On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:34:25 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Woody" wrote in message
...

For the creme de la creme the BBC-designed LS3/5A which were made by
several manufacturers - Goodmans, Rogers, Chartwell, etc - but you will be
paying hundreds for them! (Probably the only speakers you will buy
secondhand that cost now more than they did new 15-20 years ago - they are
that good.)

I suspect that there are a number of more modern speakers sized like the
LS3/5A that outperform them, and for more attractive prices. For example the
NHT Superzero is if anything a little smoother.

Also, greater size makes providing good bass and directionality control
easier. The LS3/5A type speaker is smaller than most people really need it
to be,


The problem with the LS3/5A is that it wasn't designed for domestic
listening. It was for close monitoring in a van. To keep things
manageable it had a bass response with a fairly high roll-over
frequency. For a domestic setting virtually any 150 quid modern
bookshelf will actually do a considerably better job. I would give +1
to a trawl through the Richer Sounds offerings.

d

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
The problem with the LS3/5A is that it wasn't designed for domestic
listening. It was for close monitoring in a van.

Not exclusively - although that was one use. Any application where a small
high quality speaker was needed. The Goodmans Maxim was used before for
this purpose - but was too delicate and didn't have a high enough SPL.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Don Pearce
scribeth thus
On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:34:25 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Woody" wrote in message
...

For the creme de la creme the BBC-designed LS3/5A which were made by
several manufacturers - Goodmans, Rogers, Chartwell, etc - but you will be
paying hundreds for them! (Probably the only speakers you will buy
secondhand that cost now more than they did new 15-20 years ago - they are
that good.)

I suspect that there are a number of more modern speakers sized like the
LS3/5A that outperform them, and for more attractive prices. For example the
NHT Superzero is if anything a little smoother.

Also, greater size makes providing good bass and directionality control
easier. The LS3/5A type speaker is smaller than most people really need it
to be,


The problem with the LS3/5A is that it wasn't designed for domestic
listening. It was for close monitoring in a van. To keep things
manageable it had a bass response with a fairly high roll-over
frequency. For a domestic setting virtually any 150 quid modern
bookshelf will actually do a considerably better job. I would give +1
to a trawl through the Richer Sounds offerings.

d

You say that Don but I've got a pair here of the Rogers version as PC
speakers driven by an Audiolab 8000A and a Digigram soundcard and for
the greatest part they aren't wanting

A lot of the time there're quite surprising with what they can do..

Especially on Radio 4 and voice apps...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
...

For the creme de la creme the BBC-designed LS3/5A which were made by
several manufacturers - Goodmans, Rogers, Chartwell, etc - but you
will be paying hundreds for them! (Probably the only speakers you
will buy secondhand that cost now more than they did new 15-20 years
ago - they are that good.)

I suspect that there are a number of more modern speakers sized like the
LS3/5A that outperform them, and for more attractive prices. For
example the NHT Superzero is if anything a little smoother.

I suspect the reason people think of the LS3/5A is that it is already "well
known". So a speaker which has established a reputation amongst many people
who've never owned a pair. A safe bet.

Whereas - although there are a lot of other designs that may be 'better' -
most people won't know about most of them, or have an easy way to pick the
best-for-them from a wide field where models come and go. I read a number
of audio mags and take an interest, but still lose track of the steady flow
of designs, and have my doubts about many 'reviews' as a guide.

BTW It seems to me that it doesn't help that magazines seem to have given
up providing annual indexes. Although the websites can be useful to some
extent.

FWIW I do have an old pair of Spendor LS3/5As that I use in one room. For
things like Radio 4 or music with no serious low bass, they sound fine to
me at modest volume levels. But I would not choose them as my main
speakers, and I suspect there are various small modern units I'd prefer if
I'd had the time and will to try various candidates out and decide! As it
is, the main 'fault' I have with them is that one of the Spendor labels has
fallen off, and I've not yet got around to gluing it back on again. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
You say that Don but I've got a pair here of the Rogers version as PC
speakers driven by an Audiolab 8000A and a Digigram soundcard and for
the greatest part they aren't wanting

A lot of the time there're quite surprising with what they can do..

Especially on Radio 4 and voice apps...

Within their parameters of limited bass extension and SPL, I've yet to
hear anything better. But then I've not tried all of the latest designs.
Those I have heard seem to be based on producing a lot of noise from a
small box, rather than the ultimate in natural reproduction. I'll have to
seek out the ones Arny mentions.

--
*Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Somewhere on teh intarwebs Woody wrote:
[snip]
Whatever you do (a) get speakers that have rubber driver
surrounds - as against foam which rots -
[snip]

I couldn't agree more. However, I do have a couple drivers that have foam
surrounds. Can you give me any hints on how to increase their longevity? Is
there anything that can be done to make them last longer, other than the
obvious one of keeping them out of sunlight.

Any input greatly appreciated. I tried replacing the surrounds on a pair of
5" woofers once and it was a disaster that I hope to avoid ever going
through again - although I suspect that it would be easier with larger
drivers. (I have a pair of 8" Vifa woofers with cast alloy baskets but
rotted foam surrounds. Where's the logic there? shrug)

TIA,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)

On 06/03/2012 07:37, Woody wrote:
wrote in message
eb.com...
On 29/01/2012 11:45, Rob wrote:
I'd like some speakers for a small room/office, and they'll be
tucked
into a bookshelf. The room is about 10'x8'x7'(H). I'm not
looking to
spend very much - up to £100 second hand. Amplifier 20WPC SS.
Any
recommendations?

Thanks, Rob



Many modern small bookshelf speakers are rear ported so putting
them on a shelf and presumably thus close to a wall will make
them very boomy and muddy in sound. You would be better to go for
one of the older infinite baffle designs.


The KEFs are front ported - but I take your point. I haven't had any
good experiences of hifi speakers close to walls.

As you are in a relatively small room and will probably not need
much volume you want a speaker that doesn't need a lot of
driving. I would suggest you look at a pair of Wharfedale Dentons
or Shiltons. Yes a 30 year old design but both are speakers that
are very easy on the ear and have well made drivers. Also
consider perhaps some of the smaller and older Mission, Monitor
Audio, or Celestions, or if you want probably the best look for
some smaller Castles. Also look out for almost any of the smaller
KEF units - they will never let you down. A rare-ish but very
compitent small speaker was the TDL NFM (Near Field Monitor) but
they tend to be few and far between.

*Sheltons* :-) - I used to have a pair, and a friend had the Dentons.
Good I seem to remeber, but shrill by today's standards. And I've had
some DL4s - but again - not close to walls.

If you want more modern then something like the small Tannoy or
Quad products of the last few years but they may exceed your
budget. Older Gale (now I think a brand owned by Richer Sounds)
were also solid little units.

For the creme de la creme the BBC-designed LS3/5A which were made
by several manufacturers - Goodmans, Rogers, Chartwell, etc - but
you will be paying hundreds for them! (Probably the only speakers
you will buy secondhand that cost now more than they did new
15-20 years ago - they are that good.)

£700 I gather. Just too much for the intended use.


Whatever you do (a) get speakers that have rubber driver
surrounds - as against foam which rots - and (b) make sure those
surrounds are not cut. I saw a pair of reasonable TDL's yesterday
for £40 but one surround had a small cut in it and TDL are no
longer in business.


Ahem - the surround of some some fairly new Dynaudio speakers I have
came away -cost a fair bit to put right. But yes, take your point again.

I have assumed in the above that you listen to a decent spread of
music types - pretty well none of the above will handle heavy
rock very well!

Apart from fleabay, look at what Richer Sounds have even new, and
also look at some of the specialist secondhand hi-fi outlets such
as Fanthorpe in Hull and Steve's Hi-Fi in Hastings both of which
have web sites.


May well just pop in to RS as you say. Proving to be a bit of hassle.
Although, on the 'near field' idea, presumeably they're designed to be
pushed against walls and into corners. How about the likes of:

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B2030A.aspx

Active's not a problem.

Rob

"Rob" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/03/2012 07:37, Woody wrote:
wrote in message
eb.com...
On 29/01/2012 11:45, Rob wrote:
I'd like some speakers for a small room/office, and they'll
be
tucked
into a bookshelf. The room is about 10'x8'x7'(H). I'm not
looking to
spend very much - up to £100 second hand. Amplifier 20WPC
SS.
Any
recommendations?

Thanks, Rob



Many modern small bookshelf speakers are rear ported so
putting
them on a shelf and presumably thus close to a wall will make
them very boomy and muddy in sound. You would be better to go
for
one of the older infinite baffle designs.


The KEFs are front ported - but I take your point. I haven't
had any good experiences of hifi speakers close to walls.

As you are in a relatively small room and will probably not
need
much volume you want a speaker that doesn't need a lot of
driving. I would suggest you look at a pair of Wharfedale
Dentons
or Shiltons. Yes a 30 year old design but both are speakers
that
are very easy on the ear and have well made drivers. Also
consider perhaps some of the smaller and older Mission,
Monitor
Audio, or Celestions, or if you want probably the best look
for
some smaller Castles. Also look out for almost any of the
smaller
KEF units - they will never let you down. A rare-ish but very
compitent small speaker was the TDL NFM (Near Field Monitor)
but
they tend to be few and far between.

*Sheltons* :-) - I used to have a pair, and a friend had the
Dentons. Good I seem to remeber, but shrill by today's
standards. And I've had some DL4s - but again - not close to
walls.

If you want more modern then something like the small Tannoy
or
Quad products of the last few years but they may exceed your
budget. Older Gale (now I think a brand owned by Richer
Sounds)
were also solid little units.

For the creme de la creme the BBC-designed LS3/5A which were
made
by several manufacturers - Goodmans, Rogers, Chartwell, etc -
but
you will be paying hundreds for them! (Probably the only
speakers
you will buy secondhand that cost now more than they did new
15-20 years ago - they are that good.)

£700 I gather. Just too much for the intended use.


Whatever you do (a) get speakers that have rubber driver
surrounds - as against foam which rots - and (b) make sure
those
surrounds are not cut. I saw a pair of reasonable TDL's
yesterday
for £40 but one surround had a small cut in it and TDL are no
longer in business.


Ahem - the surround of some some fairly new Dynaudio speakers I
have came away -cost a fair bit to put right. But yes, take
your point again.

I have assumed in the above that you listen to a decent spread
of
music types - pretty well none of the above will handle heavy
rock very well!

Apart from fleabay, look at what Richer Sounds have even new,
and
also look at some of the specialist secondhand hi-fi outlets
such
as Fanthorpe in Hull and Steve's Hi-Fi in Hastings both of
which
have web sites.


May well just pop in to RS as you say. Proving to be a bit of
hassle. Although, on the 'near field' idea, presumeably they're
designed to be pushed against walls and into corners. How about
the likes of:

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B2030A.aspx

Active's not a problem.




I have seen comments in this NG about Behringer - generally
favourable ISTR.

However be aware that if you have not had serious experience of
European designed loudspeakers you may be a bit disappointed.
They are undoubtedly very detailed - some would perhaps say
excessively so - but tend to be rather 'dry' and 'unmusical.'.

Remember that UK-made/designed speakers are regarded as some of
the best in the world - even the Japanese buy them! It is also
interesting to note that branded speakers such as Sony and Denon
amongst others have been designed and made in the UK (Denon had
some specially made by Mission.)

Given the choice I would stay with British - not least of which
is customer support if you have any problems.

Have you considered building your own, possibly from a kit? Have
a look at www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk - the name was bought when the
original (Wilmslow-based) owner retired and emigrated; they are
in Hinckley, Leics.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

On Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:45:53 AM UTC, Rob wrote:
I'd like some speakers for a small room/office, and they'll be tucked
into a bookshelf. The room is about 10'x8'x7'(H). I'm not looking to
spend very much - up to £100 second hand. Amplifier 20WPC SS. Any
recommendations?

Thanks, Rob

Older Missions, particularly the M75, with polypropylene cone, forward-facing port, and very heavy box, are good for the money, and fairly common on ebay for around £50-70 at a guess. Tweeters not the best, but the cones are excellent and the bass is light and tight rather than boomy.

Ian

On 20/03/2012 14:49, wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:45:53 AM UTC, Rob wrote:
I'd like some speakers for a small room/office, and they'll be tucked
into a bookshelf. The room is about 10'x8'x7'(H). I'm not looking to
spend very much - up to £100 second hand. Amplifier 20WPC SS. Any
recommendations?

Thanks, Rob

Older Missions, particularly the M75, with polypropylene cone, forward-facing port, and very heavy box, are good for the money, and fairly common on ebay for around £50-70 at a guess. Tweeters not the best, but the cones are excellent and the bass is light and tight rather than boomy.


Thanks - I'll keep an eye out.

Rob