I've been looking at headphones for a few days, on Amazon, the Koss website and today trying about 40 pairs in London with in-shop demo equipment and also my phone. I'm just about a layman when it comes to hi-fi, albeit with some sincerely held views that might make some here a wee bit cross. I know what I like and I have a half articulate way of attempting to describe it even if the spec sheets have thrown me a bit.

What I'm after is a set of full size headphones that sound as good and balanced as my supposedly humble Koss Porta Pros, which are physically a bit flimsy. They themselves have an rrp of nearly £50 though they can be had for under half that. I have a few uses for the headphones I'm after though it may be I'd find a set which really impress me for some things but not others.

I'm learning piano, with a Casio digital piano. It sounds pretty good with the Porta Pros, but I'm thinking a bit more volume is what I want there. I know what a headphone amp is but the idea does seem a bit of a palaver, to me. No offence!

I use a Sony CD Walkman still for any new album that has really got my attention. Mostly I stick to 320k mp3 files on my Linux-based desktop computer and phone despite an ideological preference for ogg. Being in earliest middle age the music I like is uncluttered and mostly acoustic - there's no distortion or heavy bass involved, though I do like the balanced, er, mature amount of bass the Porta Pros provide. I had a pair of Yamahas that were £40 in about 1996 which I quite liked which at my fussiest I found a bit harsh somehow - is it impossible for headphones to sound as clean as good speakers no matter what you spend? A few days ago I returned some Sennheiser HD215s which I was pretty disappointed by after reading the reviews. They had a too midrange-heavy sound and were too quiet, especially with the piano. I've heard of this 'burning in' business, but I didn't fancy being optimistic about the Sennheisers when the Koss 'phones sounded much better from the off despite being a third of the price.

I am fussy and I have got taste I think. Today for example I ran through all these Skull Candy and other rapper-endorsed headphones and they just seemed crassly bassy with no thought about clarity. There was a set endorsed by Mr 'Tiny Tempa' which seemed better, possibly about £90. Many sets I tried were far too quiet. Finally I found some Bose headphones in Currys, trying about five different models. These seemed a lot better, though I had a preference for the ones costing £120 as the £299 noise-cancelling ones would not go loud enough - though I don't want it so much for CDs, volume without distortion is important for the piano.

The Porta Pros are 15hz-20khz, 60 ohm, 100db as far as I remember but I expect that's scant enough detail to be useless, I'm guessing intelligent construction is important.

The Koss MV-1s are what I was looking at on Amazon but I'm not sure I know enough about the specs and how to understand spec sheets - maybe they'd be significantly better than but quieter than the Porta Pros, and after having returned the well-reviewed Sennheisers I'm mistrustful of Amozon-based enthusiasm. I've emailed the UK Koss distributor to ask what are the full size equivalents of the Porta Pros, audio-wise. From what I've understood though these are some DJ100s that are negatively reviewed, so at a guess the spec's the same but the construction doesn't allow for the same clarity or something.

I saw also some £25 Phillips 'TV' headphones, may have had 2500 in the model name, and these seem to have, on paper, the same spec almost as the Porta Pros, but are 32 ohm instead of 60. Probably wrongly I'd filed away in my head the idea that higher ohms meant less volume possible but maybe I've overlooked another factor or it's conveniently absent from packaging spec details. I'm sure I owned these about 8 years ago and found them clear and full but too quiet.

I hadn't before thought much about how much external noise I want gone, but it was one thing I had liked about the Sennheisers, it made the music more intimate-feeling, and at the right volume that would be great for the piano too.

Sorry about any errors, waffling or bobbins, but I am seriously interested and hopefully I can get some views and guidance here. Thanks.

In article ,
wrote:
I hadn't before thought much about how much external noise I want gone,
but it was one thing I had liked about the Sennheisers, it made the
music more intimate-feeling, and at the right volume that would be great
for the piano too.

It's actually quite easy to make headphones with a pretty level response
(compared to speakers) - but of course many will want them to be
'impressive', hence the wide variations.

As a guide, look at those in pro use - generally made by the better
microphone makers like Sennheiser, Bayer, AKG, etc.

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
I hadn't before thought much about how much external noise I want
gone, but it was one thing I had liked about the Sennheisers, it made
the music more intimate-feeling, and at the right volume that would be
great for the piano too.

It's actually quite easy to make headphones with a pretty level response
(compared to speakers) - but of course many will want them to be
'impressive', hence the wide variations.

I've noticed in measurements that many headphones have a 'dip' in the
presence region. I suspect this may be because they try to corrert for
'shooting the sound in from the side', bypassing the effect the ear lobes
have on arriving external sounds. Which in turn make me suspect that
preference will vary from user to user due to differences in their external
ear details as well as all the usual musical preferences.

As a guide, look at those in pro use - generally made by the better
microphone makers like Sennheiser, Bayer, AKG, etc.

In the last year or two I've bought a number of cheap/mid-price headphones
(30 - 50 quid) and only one found one model that seemed decent to me. These
are the Sennheiser EH350. I find them comfortable and give a fairly good
sound. Albeit a bit bass heavy and lacking in treble. However I think these
have now gone from their range.

I also recently bought Sennheiser PX200-II phones. But these I find
unconformable, and the sound is only acceptable if I use my fingers to hold
them pressed against my ears. They seem to be designed for someone with
ears the size of a 5-year old child! The 'cushion' sits on the ears and
means the phones don't make a closed contact. So have the same 'thin' sound
as many sit-on-the ears designs. I guess they are more of a 'fashion
statement' than designed for serious listening.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 10/09/2012 09:21, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
snip

As a guide, look at those in pro use - generally made by the better
microphone makers like Sennheiser, Bayer, AKG, etc.

In the last year or two I've bought a number of cheap/mid-price headphones
(30 - 50 quid) and only one found one model that seemed decent to me. These
are the Sennheiser EH350. I find them comfortable and give a fairly good
sound. Albeit a bit bass heavy and lacking in treble. However I think these
have now gone from their range.

I also recently bought Sennheiser PX200-II phones. But these I find
unconformable, and the sound is only acceptable if I use my fingers to hold
them pressed against my ears. They seem to be designed for someone with
ears the size of a 5-year old child! The 'cushion' sits on the ears and
means the phones don't make a closed contact. So have the same 'thin' sound
as many sit-on-the ears designs. I guess they are more of a 'fashion
statement' than designed for serious listening.


I find the PX200s very good indeed - I've got a pair of the new mk2
noise canceling ones too, great on planes etc. Only thing is that the
ear pads have started to fall apart on the 10 year old pair, and they're
quite pricey to replace.

I'd guess you have a tiny little head and enormous ears? :-)

Rob

In article , RJH wrote:
On 10/09/2012 09:21, Jim Lesurf wrote:


I also recently bought Sennheiser PX200-II phones. But these I find
unconformable, and the sound is only acceptable if I use my fingers to
hold them pressed against my ears. They seem to be designed for
someone with ears the size of a 5-year old child! The 'cushion' sits
on the ears and means the phones don't make a closed contact. So have
the same 'thin' sound as many sit-on-the ears designs. I guess they
are more of a 'fashion statement' than designed for serious listening.


I find the PX200s very good indeed - I've got a pair of the new mk2
noise canceling ones too, great on planes etc. Only thing is that the
ear pads have started to fall apart on the 10 year old pair, and they're
quite pricey to replace.

Can't comment on the other models you refer to.

I'd guess you have a tiny little head and enormous ears? :-)

The earpads of the PX200-II I have are less than 5cm in (outer) diameter. I
admit my ears are bigger than that. I'm not sure if this makes my ears
'enormous', though. I can't recall being mistaken for Prince Charles...
;-

However on my head the PX200-II has the same 'lack of bass' and 'remote'
sound as many cheap 'on ear' designs. They sound like tiny speakers held
just away from the ears. Whereas the (circumaural) EH phones I mentioned
have decent bass.

e.g. I was using a 5.1 channel testcard to test downmixing to stereo
yesterday. With the the EH350 I could hear the LFE channel test tone. With
the PX200-II I could just sense that the phones where 'rattling' if I used
my fingers to press the PX200-II against my ears. So when used for such
tests it was 'nil points' for the PX200-II. However maybe some people have
an outer ear that is as flat as a breadboard. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 11/09/2012 09:58, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , RJH wrote:
On 10/09/2012 09:21, Jim Lesurf wrote:


I also recently bought Sennheiser PX200-II phones. But these I find
unconformable, and the sound is only acceptable if I use my fingers to
hold them pressed against my ears. They seem to be designed for
someone with ears the size of a 5-year old child! The 'cushion' sits
on the ears and means the phones don't make a closed contact. So have
the same 'thin' sound as many sit-on-the ears designs. I guess they
are more of a 'fashion statement' than designed for serious listening.


I find the PX200s very good indeed - I've got a pair of the new mk2
noise canceling ones too, great on planes etc. Only thing is that the
ear pads have started to fall apart on the 10 year old pair, and they're
quite pricey to replace.

Can't comment on the other models you refer to.


The 'passive' pair are PX200 mk1s. The noise cancelling are the same as
PX200 mk2 (I thought/think) but with noise cancelling - PX250s mk2.

I'd guess you have a tiny little head and enormous ears? :-)

The earpads of the PX200-II I have are less than 5cm in (outer) diameter. I
admit my ears are bigger than that. I'm not sure if this makes my ears
'enormous', though. I can't recall being mistaken for Prince Charles...
;-

However on my head the PX200-II has the same 'lack of bass' and 'remote'
sound as many cheap 'on ear' designs. They sound like tiny speakers held
just away from the ears. Whereas the (circumaural) EH phones I mentioned
have decent bass.

e.g. I was using a 5.1 channel testcard to test downmixing to stereo
yesterday. With the the EH350 I could hear the LFE channel test tone. With
the PX200-II I could just sense that the phones where 'rattling' if I used
my fingers to press the PX200-II against my ears. So when used for such
tests it was 'nil points' for the PX200-II. However maybe some people have
an outer ear that is as flat as a breadboard. :-)


My ears aren't exactly svelte, but I find the sound pretty good - used
them for hours on end on buses/planes etc. - certainly not tiny speakers
sound. I don't have too much to compare with though.

Rob

I hadn't before thought much about how much external noise I want gone, but it
was one thing I had liked about the Sennheisers, it made the music more
intimate-feeling, and at the right volume that would be great for the piano too.

Sorry about any errors, waffling or bobbins, but I am seriously interested and
hopefully I can get some views and guidance here. Thanks.


Well seems a bit of conflict there!. One thing that comes to mind is be
careful with the actual sound levels that phones can and do generate!.
I'd have thought that most all phones would generate sufficient level
for you anyway. Do you really want to be a bit deaf in later years;?..

I've had a pair of Sennheiser HD595 for some time now and there're very
good for what I need which is mainly critical listening for audio
assessment etc as well as general use and really can't fault them. They
were around 120 odd when I bought them and have prolly gone up a bit
now.

Worth a try despite the apparent shortcomings of the other ones you
tried.

Its odd that a lot of people swear by the Bayer DT 100 series found in a
lot of radio stations and to me they sound very coloured and not right
at all but then again one mans meat etc.!...
--
Tony Sayer

I am most impressed with my Grado SR80 for around £100 in UK. They are
open rear type so don't use them on the 'bus!
Traveller

"tony sayer" wrote in message ...

I hadn't before thought much about how much external noise I want gone, but
it
was one thing I had liked about the Sennheisers, it made the music more
intimate-feeling, and at the right volume that would be great for the piano
too.

Sorry about any errors, waffling or bobbins, but I am seriously interested
and
hopefully I can get some views and guidance here. Thanks.


Well seems a bit of conflict there!. One thing that comes to mind is be
careful with the actual sound levels that phones can and do generate!.
I'd have thought that most all phones would generate sufficient level
for you anyway. Do you really want to be a bit deaf in later years;?..

I've had a pair of Sennheiser HD595 for some time now and there're very
good for what I need which is mainly critical listening for audio
assessment etc as well as general use and really can't fault them. They
were around 120 odd when I bought them and have prolly gone up a bit
now.

Worth a try despite the apparent shortcomings of the other ones you
tried.

Its odd that a lot of people swear by the Bayer DT 100 series found in a
lot of radio stations and to me they sound very coloured and not right
at all but then again one mans meat etc.!...
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Its odd that a lot of people swear by the Bayer DT 100 series found in a
lot of radio stations and to me they sound very coloured and not right
at all but then again one mans meat etc.!...

They tend to be very consistent from one pair to another - and of course
all spares are available which is handy for pro use. I'd agree they may
not be the ultimate in 'Hi-Fi' but they are a good tool to balance with.

Because I had to use headphones so much at work I have no interest in them
for domestic use. ;-)

--
*I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Fiio Eo5 headphone amp has done the job for the piano. In conjunction with the Sony MA300 both volume and tone are lovely. The E05 has one tweak apart from volume, a supposed bass boost, but it actually seems to enrichen the whole sound. The lower notes on the piano now sound much more expensive than a £300 digital piano.

Thanks for the further confirmation of how spec sheets are a bit useless, I can understand what was said. You've really got to go and have a listen I suppose, or gamble. (I do wonder whether they have headphone amps hidden in the shop displays of headphones though, scuppering our judgment.)



On Saturday, September 8, 2012 10:30:29 PM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
I've been looking at headphones for a few days, on Amazon, the Koss website and today trying about 40 pairs in London with in-shop demo equipment and also my phone. I'm just about a layman when it comes to hi-fi, albeit with some sincerely held views that might make some here a wee bit cross. I know what I like and I have a half articulate way of attempting to describe it even if the spec sheets have thrown me a bit.



What I'm after is a set of full size headphones that sound as good and balanced as my supposedly humble Koss Porta Pros, which are physically a bit flimsy. They themselves have an rrp of nearly £50 though they can be had for under half that. I have a few uses for the headphones I'm after though it may be I'd find a set which really impress me for some things but not others.



I'm learning piano, with a Casio digital piano. It sounds pretty good with the Porta Pros, but I'm thinking a bit more volume is what I want there. I know what a headphone amp is but the idea does seem a bit of a palaver, to me. No offence!



I use a Sony CD Walkman still for any new album that has really got my attention. Mostly I stick to 320k mp3 files on my Linux-based desktop computer and phone despite an ideological preference for ogg. Being in earliest middle age the music I like is uncluttered and mostly acoustic - there's no distortion or heavy bass involved, though I do like the balanced, er, mature amount of bass the Porta Pros provide. I had a pair of Yamahas that were £40 in about 1996 which I quite liked which at my fussiest I found a bit harsh somehow - is it impossible for headphones to sound as clean as good speakers no matter what you spend? A few days ago I returned some Sennheiser HD215s which I was pretty disappointed by after reading the reviews. They had a too midrange-heavy sound and were too quiet, especially with the piano. I've heard of this 'burning in' business, but I didn't fancy being optimistic about the Sennheisers when the Koss 'phones sounded much better from the off despite being a third of the price.



I am fussy and I have got taste I think. Today for example I ran through all these Skull Candy and other rapper-endorsed headphones and they just seemed crassly bassy with no thought about clarity. There was a set endorsed by Mr 'Tiny Tempa' which seemed better, possibly about £90. Many sets I tried were far too quiet. Finally I found some Bose headphones in Currys, trying about five different models. These seemed a lot better, though I had a preference for the ones costing £120 as the £299 noise-cancelling ones would not go loud enough - though I don't want it so much for CDs, volume without distortion is important for the piano.



The Porta Pros are 15hz-20khz, 60 ohm, 100db as far as I remember but I expect that's scant enough detail to be useless, I'm guessing intelligent construction is important.



The Koss MV-1s are what I was looking at on Amazon but I'm not sure I know enough about the specs and how to understand spec sheets - maybe they'd be significantly better than but quieter than the Porta Pros, and after having returned the well-reviewed Sennheisers I'm mistrustful of Amozon-based enthusiasm. I've emailed the UK Koss distributor to ask what are the full size equivalents of the Porta Pros, audio-wise. From what I've understood though these are some DJ100s that are negatively reviewed, so at a guess the spec's the same but the construction doesn't allow for the same clarity or something.



I saw also some £25 Phillips 'TV' headphones, may have had 2500 in the model name, and these seem to have, on paper, the same spec almost as the Porta Pros, but are 32 ohm instead of 60. Probably wrongly I'd filed away in my head the idea that higher ohms meant less volume possible but maybe I've overlooked another factor or it's conveniently absent from packaging spec details. I'm sure I owned these about 8 years ago and found them clear and full but too quiet.



I hadn't before thought much about how much external noise I want gone, but it was one thing I had liked about the Sennheisers, it made the music more intimate-feeling, and at the right volume that would be great for the piano too.



Sorry about any errors, waffling or bobbins, but I am seriously interested and hopefully I can get some views and guidance here. Thanks.