Dual 505
 

Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual
505 on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.

A reputation for solid, long lasting performance. Made in Germany before
manufacturing went to China in 2000.

Unlike the 506, the headshell will take standard cartridges which brings
me to..

It has a M55E cartridge which the seller tells me was recently fitted.

Comes with Dual's ultra low mass tone arm.

With manual and in original packaging.

Support and spares such as belts seem to be readily available, although
the seller says he isn't aware of any issues.

I see a few people doubting if vinyl--digital is worth it. Rationally,
I'm not sure either but I think it will be fun trying.

Dual 505
 

"Sumatriptan" wrote in message
...
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual 505
on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.

A reputation for solid, long lasting performance. Made in Germany before
manufacturing went to China in 2000.

Unlike the 506, the headshell will take standard cartridges which brings
me to..

It has a M55E cartridge which the seller tells me was recently fitted.

Comes with Dual's ultra low mass tone arm.

With manual and in original packaging.

Support and spares such as belts seem to be readily available, although
the seller says he isn't aware of any issues.

I see a few people doubting if vinyl--digital is worth it. Rationally,
I'm not sure either but I think it will be fun trying.


They are perfectly reasonable turntables although probably not my choice.
Whether it's worth it or not is totally a personal decision but if you're
listening to your LPs anyway then why not copy them while at it?
My suggestion would be to simply keep the turntable and use it to listen to
your albums (assuming you have a moving magnet phono stage on your
amplifier).
Personally I've not been happy with the mastering on the vast majority of
CDs I've bought compared to the vinyl equivalent, yes, the CD format SHOULD
be better but I've not found that. A lot have very compressed dynamic range
which may be good for listening to in a car but not when at home.
--
David

Dual 505
 

I hope for your sake that it doesn't turn out to have a hum, but after
my experiences with my Dual 601, I'm inclined to think it most
probably will ...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:04:17 +0000, Sumatriptan
wrote:

Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...
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Dual 505
 

Yes, recording to lossless digital was my original interest..see the
Vinyl to digital thread.

I do have an ancient amplifier with mm phono input (anyone remember the
Texan amp kit?) to do initial testing but my aim is to get a preamp to
convert to line level for PC input. I may get a battery preamp as
suggested by Jim in the other thread.

My feelings regarding CD mastering are similar to yours. They are often
'in yer face' and seem harsh compared to my memories of the same
material on vinyl. Will be interesting to know if it is just nostalgia
or if I can really hear much difference.

Tony

Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 14:24, Java Jive wrote:
I hope for your sake that it doesn't turn out to have a hum, but after
my experiences with my Dual 601, I'm inclined to think it most
probably will ...


Thanks for the info. Any reason for thinking that the problem may be
common to all Dual models?

Dual 505
 

In article , Sumatriptan
wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...


It has a M55E cartridge which the seller tells me was recently fitted.

If you don't already have a suitable test LP in good condition I'd
recommend getting a copy of one. I have a set of different examples, right
back to HFS69 (the age is hinted at by the number 8-]), The old ones aren't
available unused any more. However I think the

"Analogue Productions Ultimate Analogue Test LP"

is still available.

As with many test LPs the white/pink noise, isn't. :-) But the tones are
OK.

You can then use it to check that your cartridge, etc, are working OK.
Initially check 'by ear' that it tracks reasonably well. Adjust the playing
force ('weight') and bias to suit. Then check by making a digital recording
and seeing how much distortion, rumble, hum, etc there is.

Once happy with it, adjust the levels so your recordings don't clip. FWIW I
tend to set levels so a 0dB RIAA tone would come out somewhere around -15
to -18dB in the digital file. This gives headroom for loud sounds and means
you can simply leave the recording gain set from then on. No need to fiddle
with it from one LP to the next or worry about clipping. Makes life easier.


I see a few people doubting if vinyl--digital is worth it. Rationally,
I'm not sure either but I think it will be fun trying.

Experiment is often the best way to decide since it'll depend on you and
the LPs, etc. Have fun and enjoy the music rather than regard it as a task
to be ground though.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Which model of 505 did you buy?
Inflation aside, £77.00 isn't far off what a CS 505-1 cost when it was new.

Back in the day, the mags would have us believe a
Dual CS 505-1 turntable + New Acoustic Dimension 3020 integrated amplifier + a pair of Acoustic Research AR19 loudspeakers
was the best buy budget system to own.

Ah, dreams of Rega Planar 3 and A&R Cambridge A60...

Dual 505
 

The way mine was wired (*), and assuming that yours is not likely to
be very different. Mine was a very old model, though, bought c1974,
and if yours is not of the same vintage hopefully things will have
improved. Nevertheless, I wouldn't bank on it, my impression being
that less, not more, care is taken over decks these days. I think the
manufacturers tend to think: "This is never going to have comparable
output to a good CD deck, so we'll make it cheap and cheerful!" That
means a ceramic cartridge and not much attention given to things like
hum suppression. I hope for your sake that I'm wrong, but time will
soon tell.

* The wiring mistakes were as follows ...

:-( The deck was made of metal, yet originally supplied with a
two-core, that is unearthed, mains cable. Very early on in its life,
I changed the mains lead for a three-core one with the earth attached
to the deck metal. Not only was this a lot safer in theory, in
practice it also meant that when dismounting a record I didn't get
electric shocks from static having built up from the normal action of
the stylus in the groove. When I first did this, I was using a
properly earthed amp, so didn't notice any increase in hum, IIRC quite
the reverse in fact, but by the time a couple of years ago when I was
doing the digitisation, I was using an amp with a two-core mains lead,
that is, although it had an earth point for a deck, it itself was not
earthed, and the deck now gave a big hum.

:-( When analysing this hum, the next thing I noticed was that the
arm and cartridge holder were grounded to the deck metal. Just
cutting, or in my case unsoldering, the cartridge holder earth
underneath the deck and instead taking it out the back to the earth
point on the amp made quite a bit of difference, but didn't get rid of
the hum entirely.

:-( Then I realised, and proved it with a resistance meter, that
the tone arm was not electrically insulated from the deck metal, which
meant that even after the above link had been fixed, the wiring to the
cartridge still picked up hum from being surrounded by the metal tube
of the tone arm. What follows is definitely not something to be
recommended, but it being a very, very old and already beat up deck
with zilch second-hand value, for example the lid hinges had broken
within a couple of years of purchase, I didn't mind hazarding breaking
it altogether, and so completely dismantled the tone arm, replacing
the wiring with the smallest stereo coaxial wiring I could find, so
that the outer sheath being grounded protected the signal wires
within, and this completely fixed the hum. However such cable is a
lot less flexible than the original very thin and delicate wiring that
is commonly used to wire between the terminals of the cartridge and
the outputs at the back, so this introduced tracking problems which
took a lot of trial and error to fix, which is why it's not something
to be generally recommended.

So if yours has a hum, my advice would be to repatriate it immediately
as not being "fit for purpose".

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:49:38 +0000, Sumatriptan
wrote:

Thanks for the info. Any reason for thinking that the problem may be
common to all Dual models?

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Dual 505
 

If by phone input you mean one with RIAA bias-correction, then why not
just take the line out of that amp to your soundcard instead. That's
what I did, the results were very acceptable, and I reckoned it was a
lot easier than faffing around with a preamp, and trying to avoid it
introducing hum that I'd already spent so many hours trying to remove.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:47:58 +0000, Sumatriptan
wrote:

I do have an ancient amplifier with mm phono input (anyone remember the
Texan amp kit?) to do initial testing but my aim is to get a preamp to
convert to line level for PC input. I may get a battery preamp as
suggested by Jim in the other thread.
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================================================== =======
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Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 17:49, Java Jive wrote:
If by phone input you mean one with RIAA bias-correction, then why not
just take the line out of that amp to your soundcard instead. That's
what I did, the results were very acceptable, and I reckoned it was a
lot easier than faffing around with a preamp, and trying to avoid it
introducing hum that I'd already spent so many hours trying to remove.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:47:58 +0000, Sumatriptan
wrote:

I do have an ancient amplifier with mm phono input (anyone remember the
Texan amp kit?)


Is the Texan phono input stage good enough? I doubt it.

--
Eiron.

Dual 505
 

"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
The way mine was wired (*), and assuming that yours is not likely to
be very different. Mine was a very old model, though, bought c1974,
and if yours is not of the same vintage hopefully things will have
improved. Nevertheless, I wouldn't bank on it, my impression being
that less, not more, care is taken over decks these days. I think
the
manufacturers tend to think: "This is never going to have
comparable
output to a good CD deck, so we'll make it cheap and cheerful!"
That
means a ceramic cartridge and not much attention given to things
like
hum suppression. I hope for your sake that I'm wrong, but time will
soon tell.

* The wiring mistakes were as follows ...

:-( The deck was made of metal, yet originally supplied with a
two-core, that is unearthed, mains cable. Very early on in its
life,
I changed the mains lead for a three-core one with the earth
attached
to the deck metal. Not only was this a lot safer in theory, in
practice it also meant that when dismounting a record I didn't get
electric shocks from static having built up from the normal action
of
the stylus in the groove. When I first did this, I was using a
properly earthed amp, so didn't notice any increase in hum, IIRC
quite
the reverse in fact, but by the time a couple of years ago when I
was
doing the digitisation, I was using an amp with a two-core mains
lead,
that is, although it had an earth point for a deck, it itself was
not
earthed, and the deck now gave a big hum.

:-( When analysing this hum, the next thing I noticed was that the
arm and cartridge holder were grounded to the deck metal. Just
cutting, or in my case unsoldering, the cartridge holder earth
underneath the deck and instead taking it out the back to the earth
point on the amp made quite a bit of difference, but didn't get rid
of
the hum entirely.

:-( Then I realised, and proved it with a resistance meter, that
the tone arm was not electrically insulated from the deck metal,
which
meant that even after the above link had been fixed, the wiring to
the
cartridge still picked up hum from being surrounded by the metal
tube
of the tone arm. What follows is definitely not something to be
recommended, but it being a very, very old and already beat up deck
with zilch second-hand value, for example the lid hinges had broken
within a couple of years of purchase, I didn't mind hazarding
breaking
it altogether, and so completely dismantled the tone arm, replacing
the wiring with the smallest stereo coaxial wiring I could find, so
that the outer sheath being grounded protected the signal wires
within, and this completely fixed the hum. However such cable is a
lot less flexible than the original very thin and delicate wiring
that
is commonly used to wire between the terminals of the cartridge and
the outputs at the back, so this introduced tracking problems which
took a lot of trial and error to fix, which is why it's not
something
to be generally recommended.

So if yours has a hum, my advice would be to repatriate it
immediately
as not being "fit for purpose".


Going back 30+ years most kit was only two core, the only three-core
being on the amp so that there would never be any hum loops. Even now
I have
Hitachi DD T/T
Denon TU260LII
Sony MD???
Marantz CD5400SE
NAD 312
Denon 555 dual cassette
Rotel RB850
and the only item there with a three-core cable is the turntable. The
turntable earth is only to the motor body and is completely isolated
from the audio connections but I have not a glimmer of hum anywhere.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 18:06, Eiron wrote:
On 16/02/2015 17:49, Java Jive wrote:
If by phone input you mean one with RIAA bias-correction, then why not
just take the line out of that amp to your soundcard instead. That's
what I did, the results were very acceptable, and I reckoned it was a
lot easier than faffing around with a preamp, and trying to avoid it
introducing hum that I'd already spent so many hours trying to remove.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:47:58 +0000, Sumatriptan
wrote:

I do have an ancient amplifier with mm phono input (anyone remember the
Texan amp kit?)


Is the Texan phono input stage good enough? I doubt it.


It is RIAA but when I powered my Texan up a few years ago it had some
hum so I'm going to have to 'faff around' to fix it if I use it. Here's
a schematic:

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/paulkemble/sound8h.html

Love this, 'covering 5Hz--500kHz'

The line out is simply a potential divider across the speaker output. I
might try it as per Java Jive's suggestion. Haven't even got the tt yet
so nothing is definite atm.

Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 17:42, Java Jive wrote:

So if yours has a hum, my advice would be to repatriate it immediately
as not being "fit for purpose".


OK, noted. I have chased earth-loop hum in other contexts so I know how
tricky it can be to track down. My fingers are crossed.

Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 14:58, Jim Lesurf wrote:


"Analogue Productions Ultimate Analogue Test LP"

is still available.


OK, on my accessories list.

aside A few minutes ago I watched an unused, genuine Shure N55E stylus
in original packaging auction for £52.66 on Ebay. Phew!


to -18dB in the digital file. This gives headroom for loud sounds and means


Understood

the LPs, etc. Have fun and enjoy the music rather than regard it as a task
to be ground though.


Absolutely.

Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 1:04 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual
505 on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.

**The 505 was a disaster. You WILL be sorry. The 505-1 & 505-2 ,etc were
brilliant. The original 505 was a fine turntable with an extremely
crappy 'headshell'. They ALL fail. New headshells have not been
available for a very long time. Before supplies completely dried up, I
had seen them sell for as much as US$40.00 each! The only potential
replacements I've seen recently appear to be 3D printed ones. eBay
sellers have them at around US$20.00 ~ $25.00 each. They look very
flimsy and I doubt they will last. The subsequent 505 models used a far
superior headshell, which doesn't fall apart.

I wish you had consulted us before you purchased.


A reputation for solid, long lasting performance. Made in Germany before
manufacturing went to China in 2000.

**Dual was sold to Thorens. AFAIK, Thorens is still made in Germany.
They still use some of the Dual items in their turntables.


Unlike the 506, the headshell will take standard cartridges which brings
me to..

It has a M55E cartridge which the seller tells me was recently fitted.

Comes with Dual's ultra low mass tone arm.

With manual and in original packaging.

Support and spares such as belts seem to be readily available, although
the seller says he isn't aware of any issues.

**The drive belt is easy. They can be sourced from a variety of sellers.
The speed control belt is not so easy to source, but that is not a major
problem. The headshell, OTOH, IS a major problem.


I see a few people doubting if vinyl--digital is worth it. Rationally,
I'm not sure either but I think it will be fun trying.

**Fitted with a really nice cartridge, the Dual 505-2, 3, etc will
provide excellent results.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 1:49 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 14:24, Java Jive wrote:
I hope for your sake that it doesn't turn out to have a hum, but after
my experiences with my Dual 601, I'm inclined to think it most
probably will ...


Thanks for the info. Any reason for thinking that the problem may be
common to all Dual models?



**No. Dual turntables were some of the best resolved turntables in their
price class. I doubt you will have any problems, unless it has been
worked on by an idiot.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 16:44, John R Leddy wrote:
Sumatriptan;93653 Wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77.
I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual 505 on Ebay for
'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.
Which model of 505 did you buy?
Inflation aside, £77.00 isn't far off what a CS 505-1 cost when it was
new.

Back in the day, the mags would have us believe a
Dual CS 505-1 turntable + New Acoustic Dimension 3020 integrated
amplifier + a pair of Acoustic Research AR19 loudspeakers
was the best buy budget system to own.

Ah, dreams of Rega Planar 3 and A&R Cambridge A60...




Dreams indeed

It's a CS 505-1

Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 8:13 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 16:44, John R Leddy wrote:
Sumatriptan;93653 Wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77.
I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual 505 on Ebay for
'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.
Which model of 505 did you buy?
Inflation aside, £77.00 isn't far off what a CS 505-1 cost when it was
new.

Back in the day, the mags would have us believe a
Dual CS 505-1 turntable + New Acoustic Dimension 3020 integrated
amplifier + a pair of Acoustic Research AR19 loudspeakers
was the best buy budget system to own.

Ah, dreams of Rega Planar 3 and A&R Cambridge A60...




Dreams indeed

It's a CS 505-1

**That is bad news. Send it back if you can.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 7:11 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 17/02/2015 1:04 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual
505 on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged
mine.

**The 505 was a disaster. You WILL be sorry. The 505-1 & 505-2 ,etc were
brilliant.

**OOps. Should read: "The 505-2 & 505-3, etc...."

There never was a 505-1. It was just the 505.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 21:17, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 17/02/2015 7:11 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 17/02/2015 1:04 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual
505 on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged
mine.

**The 505 was a disaster. You WILL be sorry. The 505-1 & 505-2 ,etc were
brilliant.

**OOps. Should read: "The 505-2 & 505-3, etc...."

There never was a 505-1. It was just the 505.


Whatever, it was the first of the 505s.

As you will realise, it has a headshell adapter fitted to accomodate the
Shure cartridge.

So, why was this model 'a disaster' ?

Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 8:40 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 21:17, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 17/02/2015 7:11 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 17/02/2015 1:04 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual
505 on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged
mine.

**The 505 was a disaster. You WILL be sorry. The 505-1 & 505-2 ,etc were
brilliant.

**OOps. Should read: "The 505-2 & 505-3, etc...."

There never was a 505-1. It was just the 505.


Whatever, it was the first of the 505s.

As you will realise, it has a headshell adapter fitted to accomodate the
Shure cartridge.

So, why was this model 'a disaster' ?


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are NLA.

Send it back.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

"John R Leddy" wrote in
message ...

Sumatriptan;93653 Wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77.
I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual 505 on Ebay for
'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.
Which model of 505 did you buy?
Inflation aside, £77.00 isn't far off what a CS 505-1 cost when it
was
new.

Back in the day, the mags would have us believe a
Dual CS 505-1 turntable + New Acoustic Dimension 3020 integrated
amplifier + a pair of Acoustic Research AR19 loudspeakers
was the best buy budget system to own.

+1

Ah, dreams of Rega Planar 3 and A&R Cambridge A60...





--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

Dual 505
 

In article ,
Sumatriptan wrote:

aside A few minutes ago I watched an unused, genuine Shure N55E stylus
in original packaging auction for £52.66 on Ebay. Phew!

Getting a 'new' stylus for ancient cartridges can be a bit like being in a
shooting gallery blindfolded. Genuine 'new old stock' risks having
deteriorated. New 'third party' replacements may fit physically, but not be
like the originals in performance. Alas, much as I love my old Shure V15
I'm hesitant about modern replacement styli. So take care.

If you find the existing stylus or replacements aren't satisfactory, then
an alternative is someone like the 'Expert Stylus Company' who will
refurbish an old stylus.

You may be better off with the M55 than some other models, though as I
think that sort of level of Shure remained popular with 'DJs'. And probably
sold in bigger numbers than V15s.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 21:58, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are NLA.

Send it back.


I see people discussing fitting of CS505-3 or later headshells. (Not a
trivial task, apparently) But my understanding was that this was related
to cartridge compatibility and an alternative to the adapter kits. I
haven't seen any online info on the early ones actually falling apart.
If you could point me to such info on the mode of failure I would be
interested.

From the photos, the adapter on this CS505 does not look pretty and
must add some mass and therefore may affect performance. I'll take a
good look when it arrives.

Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 09:57, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article ,
Sumatriptan wrote:

aside A few minutes ago I watched an unused, genuine Shure N55E stylus
in original packaging auction for £52.66 on Ebay. Phew!

Getting a 'new' stylus for ancient cartridges can be a bit like being in a
shooting gallery blindfolded. Genuine 'new old stock' risks having
deteriorated. New 'third party' replacements may fit physically, but not be
like the originals in performance. Alas, much as I love my old Shure V15
I'm hesitant about modern replacement styli. So take care.

If you find the existing stylus or replacements aren't satisfactory, then
an alternative is someone like the 'Expert Stylus Company' who will
refurbish an old stylus.

You may be better off with the M55 than some other models, though as I
think that sort of level of Shure remained popular with 'DJs'. And probably
sold in bigger numbers than V15s.

Jim


Yup, prices of genuine 'New Old Stock' versus 'will fit M55E' items at
£12 a pop says something. I don't know what stylus is fitted to this one.

Of course there was a Dual CS 505-1.

Here's a link to an image of a genuine service manual cover: http://elektrotanya.com/PREVIEWS/634...05-1.pdf_1.png
Here's another link to further info: DUAL 505-1 Turntable
Here's a video clearly showing CS 505-1 on its model ID sticker and 505-1 on its serial number sticker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWOt5UNFKds

Here's a link to a 505/506-1 service information sheet dated 1980: http://elektrotanya.com/PREVIEWS/634..._sch.pdf_1.png

Here's a link to an image for a CS 505 instruction manual: http://dual.pytalhost.eu/505/cs505_1.jpg

Printing errors aside, it may not be that far-fetched to assume there are worldwide variations which include models: 505, CS 505, CS 505-1, CS 505-2, etc.
Whatever the accuracy of this assumption, it's an inescapable fact you couldn't walk down Tottenham Court Road without tripping over a CS 505-1.

Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 10:28, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 21:58, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are NLA.


Nonsense. I had one with near daily use for over 10 years, with and
without the 1/2" converter. Never missed a beat.

Can't speak for Antipodean imports :-)

Send it back.


I see people discussing fitting of CS505-3 or later headshells. (Not a
trivial task, apparently) But my understanding was that this was related
to cartridge compatibility and an alternative to the adapter kits. I
haven't seen any online info on the early ones actually falling apart.
If you could point me to such info on the mode of failure I would be
interested.


Don't hold your breath :-)

From the photos, the adapter on this CS505 does not look pretty and
must add some mass and therefore may affect performance. I'll take a
good look when it arrives.

It looks a little clumsy but works surprisingly well - and adds
considerable versatility, of course.

I like the Dual 505. A big thing for me is speed stability, and I found
the Dual good for a belt drive. The best I found was a Pink Triangle LPT
- which considering the Heath Robinson appearance I found amazing.

I use an old Technics 1200 at the moment - very pleased.

--
Cheers, Rob

Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 9:28 PM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 21:58, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are NLA.

Send it back.


I see people discussing fitting of CS505-3 or later headshells. (Not a
trivial task, apparently)

**A nonsensically complicated job. Forget it.


But my understanding was that this was related
to cartridge compatibility and an alternative to the adapter kits. I
haven't seen any online info on the early ones actually falling apart.
If you could point me to such info on the mode of failure I would be
interested.

**The headshell falls apart. I suspect the plastic used is not a stable
product like ABS, but is something inferior. As for reports, just do a
search. You'll receive a large number of results.




From the photos, the adapter on this CS505 does not look pretty and
must add some mass and therefore may affect performance. I'll take a
good look when it arrives.

**Send it back. Look for a later model.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:13:55 +1100, Trevor Wilson
wrote:

On 17/02/2015 9:28 PM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 21:58, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are NLA.

Send it back.


I see people discussing fitting of CS505-3 or later headshells. (Not a
trivial task, apparently)

**A nonsensically complicated job. Forget it.


But my understanding was that this was related
to cartridge compatibility and an alternative to the adapter kits. I
haven't seen any online info on the early ones actually falling apart.
If you could point me to such info on the mode of failure I would be
interested.

**The headshell falls apart. I suspect the plastic used is not a stable
product like ABS, but is something inferior. As for reports, just do a
search. You'll receive a large number of results.




From the photos, the adapter on this CS505 does not look pretty and
must add some mass and therefore may affect performance. I'll take a
good look when it arrives.

**Send it back. Look for a later model.

ABS is not UV stable. There is an alternative called PCABS which is
used instead.

d

Dual 505
 

On 18/02/2015 4:13 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:13:55 +1100, Trevor Wilson
wrote:

On 17/02/2015 9:28 PM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 21:58, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are NLA.

Send it back.


I see people discussing fitting of CS505-3 or later headshells. (Not a
trivial task, apparently)

**A nonsensically complicated job. Forget it.


But my understanding was that this was related
to cartridge compatibility and an alternative to the adapter kits. I
haven't seen any online info on the early ones actually falling apart.
If you could point me to such info on the mode of failure I would be
interested.

**The headshell falls apart. I suspect the plastic used is not a stable
product like ABS, but is something inferior. As for reports, just do a
search. You'll receive a large number of results.




From the photos, the adapter on this CS505 does not look pretty and
must add some mass and therefore may affect performance. I'll take a
good look when it arrives.

**Send it back. Look for a later model.

ABS is not UV stable. There is an alternative called PCABS which is
used instead.


**Thanks for that info. I thought ABS was quite stable.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 17/02/2015 10:28, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 21:58, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are
NLA.


Nonsense. I had one with near daily use for over 10 years, with and
without the 1/2" converter. Never missed a beat.

Can't speak for Antipodean imports :-)

Send it back.


I see people discussing fitting of CS505-3 or later headshells. (Not a
trivial task, apparently) But my understanding was that this was related
to cartridge compatibility and an alternative to the adapter kits. I
haven't seen any online info on the early ones actually falling apart.
If you could point me to such info on the mode of failure I would be
interested.


Don't hold your breath :-)

From the photos, the adapter on this CS505 does not look pretty and
must add some mass and therefore may affect performance. I'll take a
good look when it arrives.

It looks a little clumsy but works surprisingly well - and adds
considerable versatility, of course.

I like the Dual 505. A big thing for me is speed stability, and I found
the Dual good for a belt drive. The best I found was a Pink Triangle LPT -
which considering the Heath Robinson appearance I found amazing.

I use an old Technics 1200 at the moment - very pleased.


I'm down to one Pink Triangle now (PT1) and a Townshend Rock. I still think
the PT sounds considerably better than a seriously upgraded LP12.
What arm have you got on your SL1200?

--
David

Dual 505
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:58:22 +1100, Trevor Wilson
wrote:

On 18/02/2015 4:13 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:13:55 +1100, Trevor Wilson
wrote:

On 17/02/2015 9:28 PM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 21:58, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are NLA.

Send it back.


I see people discussing fitting of CS505-3 or later headshells. (Not a
trivial task, apparently)

**A nonsensically complicated job. Forget it.


But my understanding was that this was related
to cartridge compatibility and an alternative to the adapter kits. I
haven't seen any online info on the early ones actually falling apart.
If you could point me to such info on the mode of failure I would be
interested.

**The headshell falls apart. I suspect the plastic used is not a stable
product like ABS, but is something inferior. As for reports, just do a
search. You'll receive a large number of results.




From the photos, the adapter on this CS505 does not look pretty and
must add some mass and therefore may affect performance. I'll take a
good look when it arrives.

**Send it back. Look for a later model.

ABS is not UV stable. There is an alternative called PCABS which is
used instead.


**Thanks for that info. I thought ABS was quite stable.

I've just had a bunch of satellite LNB housings tested - 200 hours and
they where white and powdery. All I expect is some colour shift. I
told them before we started testing what would happen.

d

Dual 505
 

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:14:47 +0000, Sumatriptan wrote:

On 16/02/2015 18:06, Eiron wrote:
On 16/02/2015 17:49, Java Jive wrote:
If by phone input you mean one with RIAA bias-correction, then why not
just take the line out of that amp to your soundcard instead. That's
what I did, the results were very acceptable, and I reckoned it was a
lot easier than faffing around with a preamp, and trying to avoid it
introducing hum that I'd already spent so many hours trying to remove.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:47:58 +0000, Sumatriptan
wrote:

I do have an ancient amplifier with mm phono input (anyone remember
the Texan amp kit?)


Is the Texan phono input stage good enough? I doubt it.


It is RIAA but when I powered my Texan up a few years ago it had some
hum so I'm going to have to 'faff around' to fix it if I use it. Here's
a schematic:

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/paulkemble/sound8h.html

Love this, 'covering 5Hz--500kHz'

The line out is simply a potential divider across the speaker output. I
might try it as per Java Jive's suggestion. Haven't even got the tt yet
so nothing is definite atm.

That's a phones output. There isn't a line output. I'd try taking an
output from pin 6 of IC1 via a resistor - I'd experiment around 4.7k to
see what sounds ok. Ideally you should use a high input impedance buffer
but you might not be wanting to do that (although a cheap dual op-amp
would do it nicely).

Dual 505
 

On 18/02/2015 21:00, mick wrote:


That's a phones output. There isn't a line output. I'd try taking an
output from pin 6 of IC1 via a resistor - I'd experiment around 4.7k to
see what sounds ok. Ideally you should use a high input impedance buffer
but you might not be wanting to do that (although a cheap dual op-amp
would do it nicely).


Good point. Actually, there's already an output from pin 6 with a 4.7k
series resistor...it is the Texan 'Tape output'.


How the low impedance Texan 'phones output' level compares with line
level I don't know right now but a moot point since, initially, I just
want to see if the tt works. I'll simply plug it in and try it with the
Texan amp into a pair of speakers. See what I get and then decide what
to do next. I will need to make up some leads to connect to those
horrible Texan DIN input sockets.

The Dual tt arrived this morning....we were out so awaiting redelivery.

Dual 505
 

On 18/02/2015 17:06, Don Pearce wrote:

**Send it back. Look for a later model.

ABS is not UV stable. There is an alternative called PCABS which is
used instead.


**Thanks for that info. I thought ABS was quite stable.

I've just had a bunch of satellite LNB housings tested - 200 hours and
they where white and powdery. All I expect is some colour shift. I
told them before we started testing what would happen.

d


Hmm...maybe Trevor's experience with disintegrating Dual ABS headshells
is related to cumulative UV exposure of which there is rather more where
he lives than here in Wales.

Awaiting redelivery, we were out when it arrived this morning.

Dual 505
 

On 19/02/2015 10:37 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 18/02/2015 17:06, Don Pearce wrote:

**Send it back. Look for a later model.

ABS is not UV stable. There is an alternative called PCABS which is
used instead.


**Thanks for that info. I thought ABS was quite stable.

I've just had a bunch of satellite LNB housings tested - 200 hours and
they where white and powdery. All I expect is some colour shift. I
told them before we started testing what would happen.

d


Hmm...maybe Trevor's experience with disintegrating Dual ABS headshells
is related to cumulative UV exposure of which there is rather more where
he lives than here in Wales.

Awaiting redelivery, we were out when it arrived this morning.



**I don't know what kind of plastic is used in the headshells. It could
be some other plastic, other than ABS. I can promise you one thing: They
all fail. Every single one. And, contrary to popular (Pommy) belief, not
all Aussies use their turntables in bright Sunlight.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 18/02/2015 09:16, David B wrote:
"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 17/02/2015 10:28, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 21:58, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**The headshell falls apart IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. The headshells are
NLA.


Nonsense. I had one with near daily use for over 10 years, with and
without the 1/2" converter. Never missed a beat.

Can't speak for Antipodean imports :-)

Send it back.


I see people discussing fitting of CS505-3 or later headshells. (Not a
trivial task, apparently) But my understanding was that this was
related
to cartridge compatibility and an alternative to the adapter kits. I
haven't seen any online info on the early ones actually falling apart.
If you could point me to such info on the mode of failure I would be
interested.


Don't hold your breath :-)

From the photos, the adapter on this CS505 does not look pretty and
must add some mass and therefore may affect performance. I'll take a
good look when it arrives.

It looks a little clumsy but works surprisingly well - and adds
considerable versatility, of course.

I like the Dual 505. A big thing for me is speed stability, and I
found the Dual good for a belt drive. The best I found was a Pink
Triangle LPT - which considering the Heath Robinson appearance I found
amazing.

I use an old Technics 1200 at the moment - very pleased.


I'm down to one Pink Triangle now (PT1) and a Townshend Rock. I still
think the PT sounds considerably better than a seriously upgraded LP12.
What arm have you got on your SL1200?


The standard arm. Seems fine with either an AT MM or MC. I did have a
1200 with an SME. TBH, can't hear much difference, but the SME looked
nicer :-)

--
Cheers, Rob

Dual 505 update
 

On 16/02/2015 14:04, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77.

Hi all,

More from a born again vinyl user..

When the tt arrived it was packed in the original Dual packing which
would have been fine, except the transit screws were not tightened and
the counterweight was left attached to the tone arm for transit. The 505
counterweight has a plastic stem, unlike later 505-x models. Sure
enough, it was broken and the weight was rattling around in the package.

The sender agreed to compensate me for purchase of a replacement if I
could locate one. A few messages at the Vinyl Engine forum resulted in this:

http://www.dualfred.de/

Alfred and his wife who run this shop in Munich have a large stock of
apparently new Dual and Thorens turntable parts. I saw the exact part I
needed on their website. It took a week to arrive and the brand new
boxed part is labeled 'Original Dual Zubehor'

As I don't have a fully functional preamp and the main point of this
exercise is to get some/all of my collection digitised I decided to
obtain a Behringer phono-USB UFO202 interface to quickly get up and
running.

I haven't done a proper setup yet apart from tracking weight adjustment
to try out the tt for basic operation. All seems well so far, after a
listen via Audacity...except for one issue. There is significant mains
hum which I haven't tried to fix yet.

And that's where I'm at.

Dual 505 update
 

I did rather fear for you. If you can't find a SIMPLE fix without
hacking things around, send it back as not fit for purpose.
Frustrating I know, when you're eager to get going, but you really
don't want the hassle of trying to fix a hum - to convince yourself,
read again what I had to do to get rid of the one on my old deck, you
really don't want to be going anywhere near there if you don't
absolutely HAVE to.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:09:31 +0000, Sumatriptan
wrote:

There is significant mains
hum which I haven't tried to fix yet.
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Dual 505 update
 

On 27/02/2015 7:09 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 14:04, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77.

Hi all,

More from a born again vinyl user..

When the tt arrived it was packed in the original Dual packing which
would have been fine, except the transit screws were not tightened and
the counterweight was left attached to the tone arm for transit. The 505
counterweight has a plastic stem, unlike later 505-x models. Sure
enough, it was broken and the weight was rattling around in the package.

The sender agreed to compensate me for purchase of a replacement if I
could locate one. A few messages at the Vinyl Engine forum resulted in
this:

http://www.dualfred.de/

Alfred and his wife who run this shop in Munich have a large stock of
apparently new Dual and Thorens turntable parts. I saw the exact part I
needed on their website. It took a week to arrive and the brand new
boxed part is labeled 'Original Dual Zubehor'

As I don't have a fully functional preamp and the main point of this
exercise is to get some/all of my collection digitised I decided to
obtain a Behringer phono-USB UFO202 interface to quickly get up and
running.

I haven't done a proper setup yet apart from tracking weight adjustment
to try out the tt for basic operation. All seems well so far, after a
listen via Audacity...except for one issue. There is significant mains
hum which I haven't tried to fix yet.

And that's where I'm at.

**The hum is likely to be one of the following:

* Dodgy RCA connectors/leads.
* Dodgy arm wiring (unlikely).
* Dodgy headshell (most likely).

If it is the headshell (the detachable bit that hold the cartridge),
send it back.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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