On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:20:58 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:58:37 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Phil
Allison writes
Brian Gaff wrote:


I think the worst case I saw was a Pioneer receiver which kept calling a
ferrite rod am aerial a Loopstick,

** Correct name, in my experience.

A "loopstick" is a ferrite rod antenna that replaces the old loop antenna.

Indeed. It's what the Americans have always called a ferrite rod aerial
(well, at least since the 1950s).



That name never happened in the UK - or if it did, I never heard of
it. It doesn't make much sense either - it can't be a loop and a
stick.

On the contrary, it IS fairly logical. It a loop (or, more accurately,
lots of loops) of wire, wound on a ferrite stick.

A loop is a very specific type of antenna.

And so is a 'loopstick'.

Yes, it's simply a loop antenna (of many turns) wound onto a stick of
ferrite, hence the name, 'Loopstick'. What the brits called a ferrite
rod (aerial/antenna) back in the late 50s/early 60s, the yanks called
(exactly the same thing) a 'Loopstick' The yank name has been around
for just as long as the british name.


I know about using a loop AND a stick to resolve the two possible
directions from a loop DF antenna, but that isn't what this is about.


The rod in this case simply being a short electric field detector to
resolve which of the two possible directions that a loop antenna would
respond to on its own (normally using the null for most accurate
directional information). I think the loop would be used on its own to
get a bearing/reverse bearing and the 'stick' antenna would be
combined to determine from which of the two bearings the signal was
originating from.

Not all of what some Brits call 'crass Americanisms' are completely
crass. Some names give a fairly good description of what a device does.
For example, in the world of cable TV, a constant impedance, variable RF
attenuator acquired the name of 'varilosser'. On the other hand, a
'toob' could be anything!

The constant impedance attenuator used in professional audio mixing
desks are simply called 'faders'.

The 'toob' or "Tube" reference was derived using the same reasoning
behind the everyday name for an incanescent lamp, Light Bulb, on
account of it's resemblence to a 'bulb'. In this case, apart from the
very earliest examples of thermionic vacuum devices, most thermionic
valves used a cylindrical glass envelope, giving them a tube like
shape which the yanks (God Bless 'em) in their rather unsophisticated
way, decided to use in place of the technically more accurate valve
part of the name Thermionic Valve, creating the americanised
expression "Thermionic Vacuum Tube" or simply "Vacuum Tube" (the
corresponding UK abbreviation simply being the word "Valve").

The one exception in UK usage being that "Picture Valve" swiftly got
dropped in favour of "Picture Tube" or, more commonly and simply,
"Tube". The yanks used an even more descriptive name for a CRT,
calling it "The Boob Tube" when it was used in a TV set. :-)
--
J B Good

On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 18:13:36 +0000, Johny B Good
wrote:


The rod in this case simply being a short electric field detector to
resolve which of the two possible directions that a loop antenna would
respond to on its own (normally using the null for most accurate
directional information). I think the loop would be used on its own to
get a bearing/reverse bearing and the 'stick' antenna would be
combined to determine from which of the two bearings the signal was
originating from.

In direction finding you start with the loop antenna only. You find
the signal, then turn the antenna until it disappears. The direction
of the antenna axis is now at 0 degrees to the target. The minimum
will be found again with the loop turned 180 degrees. You use a
minimum because it is far sharper in angle than the maximum. Then you
couple in the stick antenna and search this time for a maximum. This
will only happen in one direction, and it will identify which of the
two possibles is the right one.

An alternative form of direction finder uses two loop antennas mounted
at right angles. The signals from these are used to drive the x and y
axes of a scope. The phase and amplitude are such that the bearing of
the source is shown as a line across the screen. Calibrate it in
degrees and the job is done. You still need to resolve the 0/180
degree problem.

d

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
That name never happened in the UK - or if it did, I never heard of
it. It doesn't make much sense either - it can't be a loop and a
stick.

On the contrary, it IS fairly logical. It a loop (or, more accurately,
lots of loops) of wire, wound on a ferrite stick.

Called a coil. A loop is singular.

Think of it as 'artistic licence'.

Ferrite rod says what it is. What 'hobbyists' or other such ridiculous US
inventions decide to call such things isn't of much concern in the UK.

As you may have noticed, we in the UK don't call ferrite rod aerials
'loopsticks' - but it's essential that we recognise (even misguided) US
nomenclature should we come across it.
--
Ian

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:20:58 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:58:37 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Phil
Allison writes
Brian Gaff wrote:


I think the worst case I saw was a Pioneer receiver which kept calling a
ferrite rod am aerial a Loopstick,

** Correct name, in my experience.

A "loopstick" is a ferrite rod antenna that replaces the old loop antenna.

Indeed. It's what the Americans have always called a ferrite rod aerial
(well, at least since the 1950s).



That name never happened in the UK - or if it did, I never heard of
it. It doesn't make much sense either - it can't be a loop and a
stick.

On the contrary, it IS fairly logical. It a loop (or, more accurately,
lots of loops) of wire, wound on a ferrite stick.

A loop is a very specific type of antenna.

And so is a 'loopstick'.

I know about using a loop AND a stick to resolve the two possible
directions from a loop DF antenna, but that isn't what this is about.

Not all of what some Brits call 'crass Americanisms' are completely
crass. Some names give a fairly good description of what a device does.
For example, in the world of cable TV, a constant impedance, variable RF
attenuator acquired the name of 'varilosser'. On the other hand, a
'toob' could be anything!

A loop is a specific type of antenna. It is large, and looks a little
like a tennis bat with no strings.

It all depends on the design frequency!

A ferrite antenna

Surely you mean 'ferrite aerial'?

here is called a
rod rather than a stick.

You don't say!

Obviously it has a coil wound round it -
that's the only way to create the necessary inductance, but it doesn't
constitute a loop.

The 'loop' probably refers to what was originally used in some types of
LW and MW radios, ie a large-ish, multi-turn air-cored loop.

It's a rod.

You say nee-ther, and the Americans say nigh-ther (or, more likely, vice
versa).


--
Ian

On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 19:28:33 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:20:58 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:58:37 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Phil
Allison writes
Brian Gaff wrote:


I think the worst case I saw was a Pioneer receiver which kept calling a
ferrite rod am aerial a Loopstick,

** Correct name, in my experience.

A "loopstick" is a ferrite rod antenna that replaces the old loop antenna.

Indeed. It's what the Americans have always called a ferrite rod aerial
(well, at least since the 1950s).



That name never happened in the UK - or if it did, I never heard of
it. It doesn't make much sense either - it can't be a loop and a
stick.

On the contrary, it IS fairly logical. It a loop (or, more accurately,
lots of loops) of wire, wound on a ferrite stick.

A loop is a very specific type of antenna.

And so is a 'loopstick'.

I know about using a loop AND a stick to resolve the two possible
directions from a loop DF antenna, but that isn't what this is about.

Not all of what some Brits call 'crass Americanisms' are completely
crass. Some names give a fairly good description of what a device does.
For example, in the world of cable TV, a constant impedance, variable RF
attenuator acquired the name of 'varilosser'. On the other hand, a
'toob' could be anything!

A loop is a specific type of antenna. It is large, and looks a little
like a tennis bat with no strings.

It all depends on the design frequency!

A ferrite antenna

Surely you mean 'ferrite aerial'?

here is called a
rod rather than a stick.

You don't say!

Obviously it has a coil wound round it -
that's the only way to create the necessary inductance, but it doesn't
constitute a loop.

The 'loop' probably refers to what was originally used in some types of
LW and MW radios, ie a large-ish, multi-turn air-cored loop.

It's a rod.

You say nee-ther, and the Americans say nigh-ther (or, more likely, vice
versa).


Aerial, antenna. I use both interchangeably mostly. But when I'm
dealing with a dish it's always an antenna.

On my old fashioned long/medium/short wave valve radio, the antenna
plugs into the aerial socket.

d

On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:31:43 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
That name never happened in the UK - or if it did, I never heard of
it. It doesn't make much sense either - it can't be a loop and a
stick.

On the contrary, it IS fairly logical. It a loop (or, more accurately,
lots of loops) of wire, wound on a ferrite stick.

Called a coil. A loop is singular.

That's just a matter of semantic pedantry. The 'Loop' part of the
name is simply a reference to a type of antenna where the wire antenna
is wound into the shape of a loop which can be a single loop or made
from several loops wound, in the pre-ferrite rod days of long and
medium wave reception on a large and bulky,typically wooden,
non-conducting support frame.

The early portable valve radios hid the loop antenna inside the
relatively still bulky case of the set and it was only with the advent
of transistorised and much smaller portable LW & MW radios that the
use of a long ferrite core (the stick of ferrite) to create a compact
loop antenna became standard practice. The yanks decided to refer to
such ferrite loaded loop antennas as 'loopsticks' whilst the brits
decided to use the name 'ferrite rod'.

Possibly the derivation from 'loop antenna' in the yank case, may
simply have been due to the much greater prevalence of 'Portable
Vacuum Tubed Radios' in use by our colonial cousins in the early
fifties where a greater familiarity with the term 'loop antenna' would
lead to naming the 'modern marvel' of a ferrite rod loaded compact
form used in the early transistorised portable radios as a 'Loopstick'
antenna.

A term that sounds very much like one conjured up by the marketing
departments of the radio manufacturing companies looking for a
'modern' and 'snappy' name which still retained its link to the good
old fashioned loop antennas of yesteryear as used by the bulkier
valved predecessors.

Meanwhile, back in blighty, most radio ownership was limited to large
non-portable valve radio sets, often connected to an end fed wire
antenna making the reference to a a 'Loop Antenna' a rather unfamiliar
one amongst the general radio set owning public.

Only a very tiny fraction of the impoverished UK public would have
been able to afford a portable valved radio with its built in loop
antenna back in the fifties so when it came to marketing the modern
miracles of portable transistor radios that started to flood the
market in the early sixties, the way was clear to invent a more
accurate name free from any earlier loop antenna reference to describe
the innovative feature that largely rendered the need for an external
wire antenna redundent.

In this case, since the 'stick of ferrite' normally resembled a
'Rod', it was a 'no-brainer' to simply call it a "Ferrite Rod
(antenna)", especially since its more technical sounding name had a
much greater appeal amongst the brits than it would have had with the
yanks who, in their childlike way, would regard 'loopstick' as a more
'fuzzy' and friendly name for a compact version of a feature they were
already familiar with.


Ferrite rod says what it is. What 'hobbyists' or other such ridiculous US
inventions decide to call such things isn't of much concern in the UK.

In one sense, you're quite right. It doesn't bother me in the
slightest that the yanks use 'loopstick' for a ferrite rod aerial.
I've been familiar with this americanism for at least the last 40
years or so and it troubles me no more than the fact that the spanish
word for red is rojo (or roja for the feminine form). :-)
--
J B Good

Ian Jackson wrote:


The 'loop' probably refers to what was originally used in some types of
LW and MW radios, ie a large-ish, multi-turn air-cored loop.



** This pic shows the sort of air cored loop antenna I was referring to - along with a ferrite stick core version.

http://www.pbpix.com/Radio/loop-antenna.jpg

Air core loops were common in portable and AC powered valve radios until ferrite versions took over sometime in the 1950s.

When pocket size transistor radios appeared, a compact ferrite rod antenna was the only usable type.


.... Phil

Don't start me off...
I also recall the Pioneer receiver made great play of the superiority of
the reliability of wire wrapped joints on the power devices. How does that
work then?
After all most of the rest of the device was a bog standard pcb with
soldered joints.
it eventually started to need new small signal transistors as they all
seemed to go crackly inside the plastic.
That was until the dial string broke and all the daisy chained dial lights
kept blowing.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian Gaff

wrote:
Well you might have transcribed it here...

I think the worst case I saw was a Pioneer receiver which kept calling a
ferrite rod am aerial a Loopstick, and there was also a thing called a
complete loading max protector. I eventually found this amounted to an
over current circuit and a relay.

Don't Max Protector *make* Loopstick? 8-]

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Then there was the Akai ADR system standing for automatic distortion
reduction system which they put in most of the cassette decks.

What was this wonderous system? a bog standard peak limiter.
brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Phil
Allison writes
Brian Gaff wrote:


I think the worst case I saw was a Pioneer receiver which kept calling a
ferrite rod am aerial a Loopstick,

** Correct name, in my experience.

A "loopstick" is a ferrite rod antenna that replaces the old loop
antenna.

Indeed. It's what the Americans have always called a ferrite rod aerial
(well, at least since the 1950s).






.

--
Ian