On 24/01/2016 13:38, Phil Allison wrote:
RJH wrote:


I've got a quite expensive Harmon Kardon HD970 CD player with a facility
to use it as a DAC. But it has trouble with some discs nowadays. I
gather from a brief internet search that the simplest solution is to
swap out the mechanism.

I've never been that convinced by optical media - far from the 'perfect
forever' we were asked to believe.


** The phrase "perfect sound forever" was used in relation to the release of the CD disk in 1982. Nobody suggested that CD players would have an indefinite life.

Nevertheless, I still have Sony CDP101 that was purchased in May 1983. It is the only CD player I ever bought and it still functions and tests perfectly.

I also have any number of CDs that are of similar age and they all play perfectly, same as the day they were made. Same is true for every CD I own.

I'd agree on the retail music and data CDs. But not on writeable, and
certainly not rewritable. Quite a few of mine from 10+ years back can't
be read, and they've been stored in reasonably good conditions.

On hardware, maybe I've been unlucky and bought badly, but I seem to
have experienced a high number of computer and audio CDP optical drive
failures.

I was glad an optical drive wasn't fitted to a recent iMac I've bought.
I got an external drive for the few times I might need it. That's
generally OK, but seems very picky about cables for some reason.

Any shortcomings in sound quality from a CD is not the fault of the disk or the 16bit/ 44.1kHz PCM format - but rather the recording industry that still only gets it right on occasion.


Yep.

--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
Java Jive wrote:
As long as you steer clear of the Seagate rubbish, you shouldn't suffer
too many problems especially if you check the SMART stats every other
week or so and don't *just* rely on smartmonctrl sending you an email
about imminent failure. :-)

Yes, Seagate has had a terrible reputation in the last few years, due,
they claim, to a bad batch each of two particular models. Certainly,
I can confirm that I've had three 3TB Seagates go down in my NASs in
each of the last three years, and another replacement for the first of
these that was DOA.

By contrast, most other brands of HD seem to keep marching on.
Recently, I've had a WD HD in a PC go down, but it was 12 years old
and had been swapped between PCs often, and it died the last time it
was swapped, so, though obviously a nuisance, I deemed that an
entirely acceptable failure, even though I have another WD drive that
was purchased at the same time and with much the same history that,
touch wood, is still going.

Most recent failure I've had was an Hitachi DeskStar. Used in the old
Acorn, so doesn't get the same thrashing as a PC. It's off at a specialist
to be recovered - fingers crossed. The other smaller HD in the Acorn is
over 20 years old which is why I'd got a bit lax with backups. But I've
learned an expensive lesson now. ;-)

--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
RJH wrote:
I also have any number of CDs that are of similar age and they all play perfectly, same as the day they were made. Same is true for every CD I own.

I'd agree on the retail music and data CDs. But not on writeable, and
certainly not rewritable. Quite a few of mine from 10+ years back can't
be read, and they've been stored in reasonably good conditions.

Pro produced CDs and home ones are made in an entirely different way.

On hardware, maybe I've been unlucky and bought badly, but I seem to
have experienced a high number of computer and audio CDP optical drive
failures.

But most PC drives are cheap as chips. Domestic ones were generally much
more expensive. And don't spin as fast.

I was glad an optical drive wasn't fitted to a recent iMac I've bought.
I got an external drive for the few times I might need it. That's
generally OK, but seems very picky about cables for some reason.

Does it being a Mac mean you can't just fit a cheap as chips replacement?

--
*If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/01/2016 15:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RJH wrote:
I also have any number of CDs that are of similar age and they all play perfectly, same as the day they were made. Same is true for every CD I own.

I'd agree on the retail music and data CDs. But not on writeable, and
certainly not rewritable. Quite a few of mine from 10+ years back can't
be read, and they've been stored in reasonably good conditions.

Pro produced CDs and home ones are made in an entirely different way.


I've no doubt. And made using better quality and more resilient 'blanks'.

On hardware, maybe I've been unlucky and bought badly, but I seem to
have experienced a high number of computer and audio CDP optical drive
failures.

But most PC drives are cheap as chips. Domestic ones were generally much
more expensive. And don't spin as fast.


Yep. Just saying - I haven't had a good experience of certain aspects of
optical media and players. Could well be that everybody else's
experience differs.

I was glad an optical drive wasn't fitted to a recent iMac I've bought.
I got an external drive for the few times I might need it. That's
generally OK, but seems very picky about cables for some reason.

Does it being a Mac mean you can't just fit a cheap as chips replacement?


Being a Mac - IIUC, yes. I think the firmware differs. I looked into it
when my 6 year old iMac's DVD drive started playing up. It wasn't silly
money to replace (and I didn't need to in the end, it seemed to right
itself), but they can be a royal pain in this respect.

--
Cheers, Rob

RJH wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:


I've got a quite expensive Harmon Kardon HD970 CD player with a facility
to use it as a DAC. But it has trouble with some discs nowadays. I
gather from a brief internet search that the simplest solution is to
swap out the mechanism.

I've never been that convinced by optical media - far from the 'perfect
forever' we were asked to believe.


** The phrase "perfect sound forever" was used in relation to the release of the CD disk in 1982. Nobody suggested that CD players would have an indefinite life.

Nevertheless, I still have Sony CDP101 that was purchased in May 1983. It is the only CD player I ever bought and it still functions and tests perfectly.

I also have any number of CDs that are of similar age and they all play perfectly, same as the day they were made. Same is true for every CD I own.


I'd agree on the retail music and data CDs. But not on writeable, and
certainly not rewritable. Quite a few of mine from 10+ years back can't
be read, and they've been stored in reasonably good conditions.


** The famous phrase you cited NEVER applied to either of those, as they are came along much later and were not intended for the release of commercial recordings. In fact, many doubts about longevity were expressed when they first appeared.

Wanna have a good whinge abut the weather ???



..... Phil

On 25/01/2016 03:29, Phil Allison wrote:
RJH wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:


I've got a quite expensive Harmon Kardon HD970 CD player with a facility
to use it as a DAC. But it has trouble with some discs nowadays. I
gather from a brief internet search that the simplest solution is to
swap out the mechanism.

I've never been that convinced by optical media - far from the 'perfect
forever' we were asked to believe.


** The phrase "perfect sound forever" was used in relation to the release of the CD disk in 1982. Nobody suggested that CD players would have an indefinite life.

Nevertheless, I still have Sony CDP101 that was purchased in May 1983. It is the only CD player I ever bought and it still functions and tests perfectly.

I also have any number of CDs that are of similar age and they all play perfectly, same as the day they were made. Same is true for every CD I own.


I'd agree on the retail music and data CDs. But not on writeable, and
certainly not rewritable. Quite a few of mine from 10+ years back can't
be read, and they've been stored in reasonably good conditions.


** The famous phrase you cited NEVER applied to either of those, as they are came along much later and were not intended for the release of commercial recordings.

My recollection is that the phrase was just a marketing device, and was
soon shown to be - at best - open to challenge. I'd agree of course that
it was never directly applied to all optical media and hardware - only,
and my point here, that I expected it to be more reliable than has
turned out to be the case.

If you feel my expectation based on a related marketing representation
was unreasonable or unfounded, fine. I'd probably agree ;-)


In fact, many doubts about longevity were expressed when they first appeared.


My first memory of CDs was on a science TV show - Tomorrow's World.
IIRC, CDs in general were introduced as durable - certainly far more so
than LPs.

Wanna have a good whinge abut the weather ???


Nope, optical media/hardware will do me for now :-)

--
Cheers, Rob

RJH wrote:



I'd agree on the retail music and data CDs. But not on writeable, and
certainly not rewritable. Quite a few of mine from 10+ years back can't
be read, and they've been stored in reasonably good conditions.


** The famous phrase you cited NEVER applied to either of those, as they are came along much later and were not intended for the release of commercial recordings.

My recollection is that the phrase was just a marketing device,


** It was really neither.

The phrase alludes to two facts: that 44.1kHz, 16bit PCM is a no compromise stereo audio recording technique and that factory made CDs offer the potential of having an indefinite life, no matter how often played.

Reasonable persons might well sum that combination up in a few words, like those in the phrase.


..... Phil

In article ,
RJH wrote:
My recollection is that the phrase was just a marketing device, and was
soon shown to be - at best - open to challenge. I'd agree of course that
it was never directly applied to all optical media and hardware - only,
and my point here, that I expected it to be more reliable than has
turned out to be the case.

I think you may have been unlucky, or had substandard blanks.

The oldest home made CDs I have date from getting on for 20 years ago, and
still play ok. Although not every CD player works with them.

--
*Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I've had no issues with the media from commercial sources, ie the original
Philips demo disc for my cd100 still plays perfectly, and it has to date
from 1983. Even some of the earliest home made cds are fine and yet this
particular player has issues with some of the home made ones, either not
finding next track closer to the outside edge or as I say, not finding the
disc or the first track depending on the severity. All on tdk disc CD rw
are just a waste of time as one hears crackles skips and repeated bits and
in some cases old content supposedly erased as well.

However there are some writers which produce better discs for this player
than others, though on my cheapo tesco portable player they all play fine.
I imagine its tolerances and in the way of some tape recorders playing
things that they should not, optical players can sometimes see the bits of a
disc they should not see creating noise on the signal that it just cannot
cope with.


Strange it is though that often the cheapest players have the best tracking.
Brian

"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2016 10:39, Brian-Gaff wrote:
No I'm darn sorf, in surrey.

Ah, never mind.

I think in the past it was sometimes an adjustment on the pcb, but
there
seem to be none on this unit. I suppose another machine might in the end
be
the answer. the innards of these devices seem to be very empty these
days,
Hardly high density pcbs though there is a fairly large mains transformer
which has started to buzz a little when on.

I've got a quite expensive Harmon Kardon HD970 CD player with a facility
to use it as a DAC. But it has trouble with some discs nowadays. I gather
from a brief internet search that the simplest solution is to swap out the
mechanism.

I've never been that convinced by optical media - far from the 'perfect
forever' we were asked to believe.

--
Cheers, Rob

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!

We are now using flash drives for our talking newspaper, and they do seem to
fail after a while.
Some tend to lose space until they are smaller than the original, others
present as ticking noises in the stream.
I'd imagine though, if we were going to use them as write once media, like
cds, they should be rom based that should last longer as long as they are
not eprom ones as I used to have bad experiences with that technology, due
to them not liking being in sunlight very much. Indeed some made in the 80s
have almost completely turned to gibberish, cosmic rays I'm told, really?
Brian

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
RJH wrote:

I've never been that convinced by optical media - far from the 'perfect
forever' we were asked to believe.

Is anything? Magnetic has a poor life too. Solid state too new to know for
sure.

Of all the media we have data on, ordinary film seems to survive well if
stored in reasonable conditions.

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!