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"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

Iain wrote:
You seem to have found an excellent source for interesting music at a
very reasonable price.

Alas, now gone.

Shame:-( The going rate for decent LPs here is 25e. I go to fairs
in Stockholm and Copenhagen, the prices are usually much higher,
that this, but there is always a brisk trade.


Do you clean the LP's before transfer?

On occasion I have experimented with wet cleaning, but have tended to
conclude that if discs are that dirty from second-hand they'll have lots
of
physical damage anyway.

It is surprising how much muck you can wash out of what looks like a fairly
decent vinyl surface.

Many shops that sell vinyl have a recording cleaning machine. My
favourite shop charges 1e (which includes a cup of coffee whiole you
wait)

No such shops in town. We are now back in the situation where the only
places to buy LPs is the charity shops that sell them second-hand in 'take
it or leave it' condition. They do advertise some in the window which they
think will be trendy and put a higher price on them. But I suspect this is
purely on the basis of what they see on the cover and have no idea about
condition, etc.

Yes. There is such a shop in Richmond Surrey (my home ground)
They usually have a large stock of boxed Readers' Digest sets.
Often, one can see that the first and second discs have been played
while the rest of the discs have probably never been near the turntable.

The LPs I bought 'new' back in the day are all in good condition. The ones
I bought recently second-hand vary. But I decided that at 3 quid a go it
was simplest to accept some would be 'duds' and prove not worth the
effort.
I looked in the shop for any obvious scratches, etc. Then took a punt on
ones that looked OK.

That's a chance I would take any day of the week:-)

In practice I found that the results, statistically, varied with genre.

1) Pop LPs. Almost all very badly worn and scratched. Often ground-in
dirt.
I stopped bothering after trying a few as the pattern was clear enough.
Death by Dansette. 8-]

Yes indeed. Dansette and Newcastle Brown - a potent combination:-)

recordings at about 2 quid a CD, I'm happy enough to buy Classical music
that way - depending on the choice on offer.

Maybe there are similar Jazz boxes. I have found out about a few - e.g. a
large Sidney Bichet box set I got a couple of years ago. The problem there
is finding out about them.

Elusive Disc have an excelent catalogue,
http://www.elusivedisc.com/Browse-all-33s/products/904/


Not jazz, but the newly released David Bowie Five Years 1969-1973
is one of the landmarks for 2016 in the vinyl renaissance.

Iain

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In article ,
Richard
Robinson wrote:

I was orginally driven into digitising by getting upset at the way my
20yo cassettes were becoming unplayable. And I've ended up with
everything on a hard disk and all visible in one big list (played via a
raspberry pi running MPD, thanks to help here last year. I still haven't
found the perfect client, but gmpc works well enough). As I said, I'm
happy.

I didn't get rid of all the vinyl, I kept the ones with sleevenotes
containing info I might possibly want but couldn't face typing up.
They're under a bed upstairs, because that's the only reason for keeping
them (plus sentiment, in a few cases). I certainly don't intend to keep
a deck running.

I scan the sleeves and labels. Then keep the images in the same directory
as the audio from a given item. I've noticed that Audacious will then
display a thumbnail of the LP front cover if it is given a filename like
'Cover'. I don't bother with any 'management' system I just give the files
and directories meaningful names that make clear what the content may be.

You should keep the LPs. In my view, owning them is in a sense a 'key' to
being able to play the digitised version in moral terms. And at some future
point there is a risk you'll need the LP anyway.

Jim

--
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This of course was why DBX recordings did not show the pumping effects of
dolby, since the noise was much more linear and moved with the sound more.

That is except for solo piano, where it tended to sound a bit like there
were loose crisps in the instrument sometimes.
Brian

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"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...

These show an interesting psychological effect. There is almost no top
in the original music, but add a bit of hiss and crackle, and our
brains shape it into the missing sibilants (or whatever), despite the
fact that it is there continuously.

How true. Some people comment on the apparent loss of hf on the
restored version. In actual fact the frequency response of the recording
systems in those days was approx 100Hz to 5kHz (five and a half octaves)
so there never was any real hf to speak of.

It is interesting too how the internal balance of the recording seems to
improve when the noise artifacts are removed. In this case the rhythm
guitar.

Iain

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In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Odd. The very first time I saw personal mics clipped to violins was not on
TV, but the James Last band in a live performance. In the 1970s.

Both plexi and BluTack (or equivalent) were in
use in British TV well before that.

How do 'Plexi' and 'BluTack' relate in your mind? ;-)
But I can't answer for all of TV. Just my experience.
You might do well to stick to yours too.


I can remember
Phil Seaman (the finest British jazz drummer of
that era and a larger than life character with a
penchant for outrageous japes) commenting on
the poor sound from "sticky violins" in TV light
music broadcasts.

As opposed to not hearing them at all, you mean? ;-)

He gave a hilarious impression of an unsuspecting
player bowing frantically as the putty melted under
the set lights, and the mic slid into his/her lap.
He once took a rope ladder to a TV show with the
intent to scale the perspex wall around his drums while
the end credits were rolling :-) This would have
been about 1966.

Yes. He was a known heroin addict prone to weird behaviour and outbursts.
No real surprise you're quoting him. ;-)
But he wasn't (for obvious reasons) one of the session players common on
BBC TV orchestras.

Do you have a string section in your big band?

No, But saxophones double on woodwinds, and
flutes in particular, are just as vulnerable to leakage
as strings are. So the set up still needs great care.

Point missed again. Ah well.



In your 'theatre group'?

It's a theatre musical group.
Yes, we have strings quite often.

Playing against a heavy rock backing? Obviously totally boxed off with
studio screens. After all, nobody would want to see them.

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

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On 09/01/2017 17:10, Jim Lesurf wrote:

You should keep the LPs. In my view, owning them is in a sense a 'key' to
being able to play the digitised version in moral terms. And at some future
point there is a risk you'll need the LP anyway.

I was asked to digitize some LPs recently, and after monitoring and
cleaning up
I've had enough Gilbert and Sullivan to last several lifetimes.
But the interesting thing is that the translucent EMI inner sleeves
(marked 6/80 - a date code?)
had become brittle and shattered as I removed the disc.
Perhaps it's the same strategy of built-in obsolescence that produced
foam surrounds.

--
Eiron.

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"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

You should keep the LPs. In my view, owning them is in a sense a 'key' to
being able to play the digitised version in moral terms. And at some
future
point there is a risk you'll need the LP anyway.

Yes indeed. Keep the LP's. A CD inlay card (and magnifying glass) is
a poor substitute for a gatefold sleeve:-)

Iain

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

Iain wrote:
I can remember
Phil Seaman (the finest British jazz drummer of
that era and a larger than life character with a
penchant for outrageous japes) commenting on
the poor sound from "sticky violins" in TV light
music broadcasts.

Yes. He was a known heroin addict prone
to weird behaviour and outbursts.

Neverthless he was Britain's finest and busiest
jazz drummer, and highly regarded by everyone,
both then and now.

In addition to his brilliant musicianship, I always
found him to be polite, friendly and witty.

But he wasn't (for obvious reasons) one of the
session players common on
BBC TV orchestras.

Really?

Phil Seaman's career began in the late forties.
He died in 1972. The BBC had studios in London,
Birmingham., Manchester, Cardiff, Glasgow etc.
I am intrigued that a sound recordist working in
television drama should be so familiar with the
identities of thousands of musicians involved in
music production in so many locations over
such a long period of time:-)

Phil was resident drummer with the Jack Parnell
Orchestra (JP, himself a very talented drummer
was also Musical Director for ATV).

Ronnie Scott appeared regularly on BBC TV
which also made programmes from his club
in Frith Street. Phil Seaman played in Ronnie
Scott's band.

Phil also played under Laurie Holloway for the
first series of the Michael Parkinson Show on BBC.

He played regularly on BBC's Jazz Club (Radio II ?)
which was broadcast live from the Paris Theatre in
Regent St. Phil was almost a fixture there, as he was
drummer in the three most popular Britsh jazz groups,
those of Tubby Hayes, Stan Tracey and Ronnie Scott.
I had a season ticket:-)

When a jazz drummer was needed he was the player of
choice. He had several kits which his roadies use to take
from studio to studio in advance to help him keep
his busy schedule. He was in great demand (for obvious
reasons, Dave:-))

When West Side Story came to the UK, they needed a
musician who could play all tuned percussion, plus
timpany and drum kit. There were no classical players
who could play the jazz/rock kit parts, and few jazz/
rock players could read well enough, or play tuned
percussion.

The story is the Leonard Bernestein himself asked for
Phil Seaman.

Anyway, he did not audition but went straight into
rehearsal with the orchestra. Players were amazed
by his skill - he did not speak or ask questions,
he just watched the conductor, read the part, prima vista
and played faultlessly! The show ran for more than 1 000
performances. He played them all.

Besides being an incredibly talented musician, he was
also a remarkable wit. There are several versions of the
West Side Story "Gong" episode. Phil told it as follows:

There were long sections in the musical where he
had nothing to play. He used to put his sticks into
their bag, fold his arms, and lean back on his drum
stool with eyes shut. He was counting bars.

A deputy musical director thought he was asleep
and signalled in alarm to the bass player, who poked
Phil in the ribs with his bow. Startled, Phil fell from the
drum stool and crashed into a huge gong. It stopped
the show, and when the gong crash had finally faded,
Phil stood up and said in a loud voice:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, Dinner is served".

Iain.

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Eiron said:

But the interesting thing is that the translucent EMI inner sleeves
(marked 6/80 - a date code?) had become brittle and shattered as I removed
the disc. Perhaps it's the same strategy of built-in obsolescence that
produced foam surrounds.

It's a possible explanation, I'm not sure it's a necessary one. I had to
ditch a 30yo very good and much loved tent a couple of years back, likewise
because the (synthetic) fabric became brittle and split too badly to seem
worth fixing (or trusting). ... It could just be that decades-old synthetics
weren't perfect. Maybe "They" knew that, maybe they didn't, I don't know.
Nor do I know how long the contemporary-equivalent replacements will last.


--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

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On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 08:20:15 -0600, Richard Robinson
wrote:

Eiron said:

But the interesting thing is that the translucent EMI inner sleeves
(marked 6/80 - a date code?) had become brittle and shattered as I removed
the disc. Perhaps it's the same strategy of built-in obsolescence that
produced foam surrounds.

It's a possible explanation, I'm not sure it's a necessary one. I had to
ditch a 30yo very good and much loved tent a couple of years back, likewise
because the (synthetic) fabric became brittle and split too badly to seem
worth fixing (or trusting). ... It could just be that decades-old synthetics
weren't perfect. Maybe "They" knew that, maybe they didn't, I don't know.
Nor do I know how long the contemporary-equivalent replacements will last.

Most extra-flexible plastics will suffer this fate. They are made
flexible by the inclusion of plasticisers - liquids that get between
the polymer chains and lubricate them so they slide over each other
rather than binding together. But over time they evaporate, leaving
the gaps behind, resulting in the plastic falling apart.

I think there are now plastics that are inherently flexible and should
have a much longer life.

d

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In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
But he wasn't (for obvious reasons) one of the
session players common on
BBC TV orchestras.

Really?

Phil Seaman's career began in the late forties.
He died in 1972. The BBC had studios in London,
Birmingham., Manchester, Cardiff, Glasgow etc.
I am intrigued that a sound recordist working in
television drama should be so familiar with the
identities of thousands of musicians involved in
music production in so many locations over
such a long period of time:-)

Unlike you, Iain, I speak from my personal experience. Of countless LE
shows made at the London TV premises of the BBC up until the mid '70s.

He might well have appeared on some of those - but wasn't one of the
regulars that turned up time and time again.

That you don't understand the variety of programmes staff work on in a
place like the BBC simply shows your ignorance of this sort of work. So no
surprise you look down on it from your ivory tower. ;-)

However, it was good to be asked by you how to cope with a simple thing
like a musician moving around on stage while playing. I was glad to help -
without the necessity of slagging off other branches of the same industry.

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.