"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

My impression is that someone removed clicks
by some method that simply magnetically 'wiped' very short sections of a
tape they'd made from the 78s.

Did anyone ever do anything like that? Or would it be that they'd cut and
spliced out the clicks with a noticable lack of overlap?

IIRC The LPs were from the 1970s.

Yes, I am familiar with this technique. It was known as dissolving.

The declicking method to which Dave refers was frowned upon,
(but nonetheless widely done!) and referred to as "destructive editing"
as one not only removed the click but the music underneath it.
No self-respecting editor would want to do such work, so it was usually
given to trainees, who were instructed to "keep all the bits" (which they
did,
numbered with white chinagraph pencil, and stuck to the front of the tape
machine with editing tape in the right order, until their engineer or
producer
approved the job)

FWIW I've recently been transferring and de-clicking some Ellington 'Radio
Transcriptions' discs released on Decca London in the late 1970s. These
are
remarkably good compared with what you'd expect from commercial 78s from
the time (1946-7). Sadly, the shop only had volumes 1-4 so I didn't get
volume 5. But not bad for 3 quid a pop. :-)

Those transcriptions were probably made from the original
polyacetate cuts, which were 14 inch and very low noise,
so no shellac involved.

In 1941/2 when shellac was in very short supply,
some 78s were issued on ean early form of vinyl.
They sounded rather good:-)

BTW, Jim if you are interested in early Ellington, look out for a double CD
called
The OKeh Ellington. The recording as beautifully restored and presented by
Columbia.
Highly recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/Okeh-Ellingto.../dp/B00000274L

Iain.

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

My impression is that someone removed clicks by some method that
simply magnetically 'wiped' very short sections of a tape they'd made
from the 78s.

Did anyone ever do anything like that? Or would it be that they'd cut
and spliced out the clicks with a noticable lack of overlap?

IIRC The LPs were from the 1970s.

Yes, I am familiar with this technique. It was known as dissolving.

Thanks. Previously, I'd taken for granted that in the era of tape people
would always use tape splicing. But maybe some people found 'dissolving'
easier. When listening at first it sounded like odd dropouts due to
something like dirt on the tape. But when I looked at the waveforms the
thought came to me that it was a deliberate erasure.


BTW, Jim if you are interested in early Ellington, look out for a double
CD called The OKeh Ellington. The recording as beautifully restored
and presented by Columbia. Highly recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/Okeh-Ellingto.../dp/B00000274L

Thanks. :-)

My knowledge of jazz has always been sketchy, alas. My best mate when young
was a fan of Swing Big Band music, mainly 1940s. I did learn a little from
that - but mainly the predictable Miller, Goodman, etc. For the rest of
jazz I've had to just discover particular types and styles, etc, ad hoc,
over the years. And when young could only afford an occasional LP, so
avoided risking a waste of money when there was a long list of non-Jazz
things I knew I'd like once I could get them!

So, yes, I do like Ellington, Basie, etc. But until relatively recently
knew little below the most 'well-known' names. The pop-up shop was perfect
for me as the LPs were cheap enough that I could buy a wider range and find
more things. Including things I'd assumed I might *not* like, but did.
However I also bought various Ellington and Basie LPs.

Alas, the shop was there on a month-by-month rental whilst the owners of
the property looked for someone willing to take out a long lease. I think
they actually just brought along the stuff that wasn't 'in demand'. But had
lots of unsorted boxes of jazz LPs at 3 quid a go.

A continuing problem from my POV is the lack of a decent magazine for Jazz
equivalent to something like The Gramophone or a *shop* which lists Jazz
CDs, etc. I still prefer to buy from a know dealer who I can sometimes
discuss things with before I buy. I'd prefer a local shop whose profits
stay in the economy and pays their local taxes, etc, as well. Indeed, I'd
still wish we have shops locally where I could browse for such things. If
there were, I'd buy more than I have done.

Agree with your comment wrt the Transcription Discs. I've also been
impressed by a collection of items from 'V Discs' that I bought a few years
ago.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Yes, I am familiar with this technique. It was known as dissolving.

Thanks. Previously, I'd taken for granted that in the era of tape people
would always use tape splicing. But maybe some people found 'dissolving'
easier. When listening at first it sounded like odd dropouts due to
something like dirt on the tape. But when I looked at the waveforms the
thought came to me that it was a deliberate erasure.

In broadcast is was known as spot erasing. Some pro machines had this
facility - although more commonly used on one track of a multitrack. With
caution. ;-)

--
*We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Yes, I am familiar with this technique. It was known as dissolving.

Thanks. Previously, I'd taken for granted that in the era of tape people
would always use tape splicing. But maybe some people found 'dissolving'
easier. When listening at first it sounded like odd dropouts due to
something like dirt on the tape. But when I looked at the waveforms the
thought came to me that it was a deliberate erasure.

In broadcast is was known as spot erasing. Some pro machines had this
facility - although more commonly used on one track of a multitrack. With
caution. ;-)


Spot erasing was a totally different thing, and used to
remove wrong notes or wrong beats (snare, BD, hi-hat, etc)
from one specific track on a multitrack machine. It left a
"hole" in the audio, which, in listening, was covered by
materal from other tracks. Spot erasure on a mono
or stereo tape, was, for obvious reasons, not an option.

Dissolving, a totally different technique, produced a cross fade
and was used exclusively on mono or stereo quarter in tapes, which
is what we are talking about here.

Iain

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Yes, I am familiar with this technique. It was known as dissolving.

Thanks. Previously, I'd taken for granted that in the era of tape
people would always use tape splicing. But maybe some people found
'dissolving' easier. When listening at first it sounded like odd
dropouts due to something like dirt on the tape. But when I looked at
the waveforms the thought came to me that it was a deliberate erasure.

In broadcast is was known as spot erasing. Some pro machines had this
facility - although more commonly used on one track of a multitrack.
With caution. ;-)


Spot erasing was a totally different thing, and used to
remove wrong notes or wrong beats (snare, BD, hi-hat, etc)
from one specific track on a multitrack machine. It left a
"hole" in the audio, which, in listening, was covered by
materal from other tracks. Spot erasure on a mono
or stereo tape, was, for obvious reasons, not an option.

Dissolving, a totally different technique, produced a cross fade
and was used exclusively on mono or stereo quarter in tapes, which
is what we are talking about here.

You mean effectively electronic editing? Please explain how this could be
use to remove clicks from an LP after transferring to tape?

--
*And the cardiologist' s diet: - If it tastes good spit it out.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The declicking method to which Dave refers was frowned upon,
(but nonetheless widely done!) and referred to as "destructive editing"
as one not only removed the click but the music underneath it.

Very true Iain. Now inform us just how you removed such clicks in the
analogue days long before you had a computer to do the work for you?

No self-respecting editor would want to do such work, so it was usually
given to trainees, who were instructed to "keep all the bits" (which
they did, numbered with white chinagraph pencil, and stuck to the front
of the tape machine with editing tape in the right order, until their
engineer or producer approved the job)

Ah. Forgot you never worked in the real world of broadcast. ;-)

--
*I got a job at a bakery because I kneaded dough.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The declicking method to which Dave refers was frowned upon,
(but nonetheless widely done!) and referred to as "destructive editing"
as one not only removed the click but the music underneath it.

Very true Iain. Now inform us just how you removed such clicks in the
analogue days long before you had a computer to do the work for you?

No self-respecting editor would want to do such work, so it was usually
given to trainees, who were instructed to "keep all the bits" (which
they did, numbered with white chinagraph pencil, and stuck to the front
of the tape machine with editing tape in the right order, until their
engineer or producer approved the job)

Ah. Forgot you never worked in the real world of broadcast. ;-)

No. Thought I have recorded countless project
that have been broadcast. But not quite the same
thing:-)

When I was thinking about a career, I found that,
using three criteria, training, salary levels and
prospects, broadcast came right at the bottom
of the league table.

Besides, I wanted to work in a company
were things were done properly.
In the "real world of broadcast", your plexi
screens around drummers, and lapel mics stuck
to the bridges of violins with BluTack, were
clearly not optimum solutions:-)

Iain

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
No self-respecting editor would want to do such work, so it was usually
given to trainees, who were instructed to "keep all the bits" (which
they did, numbered with white chinagraph pencil, and stuck to the front
of the tape machine with editing tape in the right order, until their
engineer or producer approved the job)

Ah. Forgot you never worked in the real world of broadcast. ;-)

No. Thought I have recorded countless project
that have been broadcast. But not quite the same
thing:-)

No it's not. You might have endless time available to do something. For
broadcast, the clock is usually ticking. If only for cost reasons.

When I was thinking about a career, I found that,
using three criteria, training, salary levels and
prospects, broadcast came right at the bottom
of the league table.

I'm glad you made the right choice for you, Iain. Others might enjoy the
challenge of working in broadcast. In much the same way as some may prefer
working on a live concert to recording a performance in a studio.

Besides, I wanted to work in a company
were things were done properly.
In the "real world of broadcast", your plexi
screens around drummers, and lapel mics stuck
to the bridges of violins with BluTack, were
clearly not optimum solutions:-)

You never attend live music events, then?

--
*A fool and his money can throw one hell of a party.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

In the "real world of broadcast", your plexi
screens around drummers, and lapel mics stuck
to the bridges of violins with BluTack, were
clearly not optimum solutions:-)

You never attend live music events, then?

Frequently. Often too as a player.

I play in both a classical ensemble and a big band.

I alaso mix FOH for a theatre musical group. So
probably altogether some thirty plus events a year,
and not a plexi screen or lump of BluTack in sight:-)

Iain

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

In the "real world of broadcast", your plexi
screens around drummers, and lapel mics stuck
to the bridges of violins with BluTack, were
clearly not optimum solutions:-)

You never attend live music events, then?

Frequently. Often too as a player.

I play in both a classical ensemble and a big band.

I alaso mix FOH for a theatre musical group. So
probably altogether some thirty plus events a year,
and not a plexi screen or lump of BluTack in sight:-)

Odd. The very first time I saw personal mics clipped to violins was not on
TV, but the James Last band in a live performance. In the 1970s.

Do you have a string section in your big band? In your 'theatre group'?

--
*I don't feel old. I don't feel anything until noon. Then it's time for my nap.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.