In article ,
Eiron wrote:
Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but
are happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle
player?

The OED says "Now only in familiar or contemptuous use".

It's what a pro musician friend of mine calls his. ;-)

But then he is without an inch of pretension.

--
wife.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) said:
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but
are happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle
player?

The OED says "Now only in familiar or contemptuous use".

It's what a pro musician friend of mine calls his. ;-)

But then he is without an inch of pretension.

As a tune-playing "folky", if I heard a fiddle-player talk about a 'violin'
I'd wonder if they'd lost their way to an orchestra. Likewise, (a small
random selection of) the CD sleeves from highly respected professional
players decribe their instrument as 'fiddle'. Maybe that counts as
"familiar" ? It's certainly not contemptuous.

Context is all.


--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Eiron
wrote:
Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but
are happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle
player?

The OED says "Now only in familiar or contemptuous use".

It's what a pro musician friend of mine calls his. ;-)

By co-incidence I was at a (social) meeting yesterday where one of the
people was a viola/violin player and teacher we know and someone else was a
Gaelic speaker from Harris. One of the questions he raised was wrt what was
the 'difference' (if any) between a Violin and a Fiddle. This was in the
context of it being called a 'fiddle' in terms of Scots/Gaelic
folk/traditional music but a 'violin' for classical. Certainly not a
'contemptuous' term for the traditional players, etc. So 'familiar' may
cover it.

The view was that there wasn't necessarily any specific inherent difference
required between the instruments to which the terms were applied. But there
could be in terms of the way it was played or perhaps 'set up'.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Jim Lesurf said:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Eiron
wrote:
Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but
are happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle
player?

The OED says "Now only in familiar or contemptuous use".

It's what a pro musician friend of mine calls his. ;-)

By co-incidence I was at a (social) meeting yesterday where one of the
people was a viola/violin player and teacher we know and someone else was a
Gaelic speaker from Harris. One of the questions he raised was wrt what was
the 'difference' (if any) between a Violin and a Fiddle. This was in the
context of it being called a 'fiddle' in terms of Scots/Gaelic
folk/traditional music but a 'violin' for classical. Certainly not a
'contemptuous' term for the traditional players, etc. So 'familiar' may
cover it.

Snap !

The view was that there wasn't necessarily any specific inherent difference
required between the instruments to which the terms were applied. But there
could be in terms of the way it was played or perhaps 'set up'.

It's not my instrument, I'm a clarinettist, so I can't say for sure, but
some of the people I meet in 'traditional' contexts also play in orchestras,
and I don't think I've ever heard any mention of needing separate
instruments. Given the cost of a good one, I'd be suprised.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Eiron
wrote:
Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but
are happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle
player?

The OED says "Now only in familiar or contemptuous use".

It's what a pro musician friend of mine calls his. ;-)

By co-incidence I was at a (social) meeting yesterday where one of the
people was a viola/violin player and teacher we know and someone else was
a
Gaelic speaker from Harris. One of the questions he raised was wrt what
was
the 'difference' (if any) between a Violin and a Fiddle. This was in the
context of it being called a 'fiddle' in terms of Scots/Gaelic
folk/traditional music but a 'violin' for classical. Certainly not a
'contemptuous' term for the traditional players, etc. So 'familiar' may
cover it.

The view was that there wasn't necessarily any specific inherent
difference
required between the instruments to which the terms were applied. But
there
could be in terms of the way it was played or perhaps 'set up'.


It's all in the bridge, Jim

Iain

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Big snag with a pop orch in TV is that to actually have a chance of
hearing the fiddles above the rest is they have to be very tight
mic'd.

Why do you call them fiddles?. They are violins.

Do **** off, there's a good boy.

Your coarse manner does you no favours.
Look up "fiddle" in Groves.

Collins GEM English Dictionary
fiddle n. violin

That's general useage. Groves, which is the
acknowledged specialist musical dictionary,
states clearly the physical different between
violin and fiddle. The latter has a lower bridge
to facilitate double stopping, which violinists
seldom use (except in the Sibelius violin concerto:-)

Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but are
happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle player?

I show respect to all musicians, and everyone else who earns it.
I never call them "musos" as I have seen you do. Neither do
I call string players "gipsies", as I have seen you do.

We were taught when speaking to a classical conductor to
call him/her "maestro" and refer to the principal violin as
concertmaster, leader or first-chair.

Observing orchestral etiquette always stands one in good stead.

Iain

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

It went from miming to records, to totally live performance, then on
to backing tracks with live singists and back to miming. ;-) All in
the few years I worked on it.

What was your role on TOTP ?

Why do you ask, Iain?

Please answer the question.


Perhaps you were "mistaken"?

It was a good programme. One would have
thought that anyone who had been a part in making
it would have been proud of doing so:-)


All along your main object seems to have been to take the **** out of the
BBC in various ways.

Incorrect. I fill my posts with links, pics, examples to support
what I write. The Studer/Neve discussion in which I lost
count of the number of times you shot yourself in the foot,
is a good example. Still I remained polite. It was so simple
for me: I turned the gain control down to 0dB and connect
an XLR-M with 1kHz at 0.775V and up it came.
It was far more difficult for you, without experience of either
console, trying hard to contradict anything I wrote. I
understand, but cannot sympathise with your difficulty:-)

I have no wish or need to demean the BBC, which I hold
in the greatest respect. There news coverage on BBC World
is second to none. The programmes on BBC Earth are
excellent. I was watching "War and Peace" last nigh
- absolultely first class.

But I feel sympathy for anyone trying to record music for
TV where sound is such a poor relation. You yourself have
talked recently about programmes on which you worked that
were made with no proper budget and inadequate time for
sound.

Iain

In article ,
Richard Robinson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) said:
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but
are happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle
player?

The OED says "Now only in familiar or contemptuous use".

It's what a pro musician friend of mine calls his. ;-)

But then he is without an inch of pretension.

As a tune-playing "folky", if I heard a fiddle-player talk about a
'violin' I'd wonder if they'd lost their way to an orchestra. Likewise,
(a small random selection of) the CD sleeves from highly respected
professional players decribe their instrument as 'fiddle'. Maybe that
counts as "familiar" ? It's certainly not contemptuous.

Context is all.

Quite. And consider the jokes muso tell about other musos.


BTW, do you agree with Iain:-

'A violin needs air. "Tight" mics (your term) sound awful
on strings They need air and lots of it.'

in terms of playing in a band on stage? Do you see that fiddle mic'd from
miles away?

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Richard Robinson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) said:
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but
are happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle
player?

The OED says "Now only in familiar or contemptuous use".

It's what a pro musician friend of mine calls his. ;-)

But then he is without an inch of pretension.

As a tune-playing "folky", if I heard a fiddle-player talk about a
'violin' I'd wonder if they'd lost their way to an orchestra. Likewise,
(a small random selection of) the CD sleeves from highly respected
professional players decribe their instrument as 'fiddle'. Maybe that
counts as "familiar" ? It's certainly not contemptuous.

Context is all.

Quite. And consider the jokes muso tell about other musos.


BTW, do you agree with Iain:-

'A violin needs air. "Tight" mics (your term) sound awful
on strings They need air and lots of it.'

in terms of playing in a band on stage? Do you see that fiddle mic'd from
miles away?


Violins need air. And a full string section 14,12,10,8, 6
need a lot of it. The sound from a Decca tree proves
this wonderfully.

Iain

Dave Plowman (News) said:
Richard Robinson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) said:
Eiron wrote:
Very odd you want 'respect' shown to fiddle players regardless, but
are happy to slag off every other trade. Are you a frustrated fiddle
player?

The OED says "Now only in familiar or contemptuous use".

It's what a pro musician friend of mine calls his. ;-)

But then he is without an inch of pretension.

As a tune-playing "folky", if I heard a fiddle-player talk about a
'violin' I'd wonder if they'd lost their way to an orchestra. Likewise,
(a small random selection of) the CD sleeves from highly respected
professional players decribe their instrument as 'fiddle'. Maybe that
counts as "familiar" ? It's certainly not contemptuous.

Context is all.

Quite. And consider the jokes muso tell about other musos.


BTW, do you agree with Iain:-

'A violin needs air. "Tight" mics (your term) sound awful
on strings They need air and lots of it.'

in terms of playing in a band on stage? Do you see that fiddle mic'd from
miles away?

I have no opinion, I'm too busy getting bothered that nothing can be done
about the monitors because Feedback. And anyway, miking up other instruments
is Someone Else's Problem.

[chorus: Eeh, you 'ad _monitors_ ? We 'ad to make do wi' listenin' to each
other]

But, in terms of what can be seen when a band's playing on stage, youtube is
full of videos.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html