"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Yes I experimented with this sort of thing domestically around that time.
However a huge number of mono recordings by emi and Deca and polydor were
made using delays and naff frequency shifts that all sounded like you had
a bad head cold in stereo or like it was being played in a subway in mono.

You may be right about the other labels but as far as I recall,
the Decca classical labels never did what you describe. Hence
our need to find an alternative.

The best effect i had was with small amounts of reverb, but different on
each track. Sadly though the mono in such cases did not sound like normal
mono as there were frequencies where the differing reverb cancelled and
gave the impression of notch filtering.

Total compatibility in mono was paramount.

Iain

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...StereoDemo.mp3

Iain Churches wrote:

"Phil Allison"

** Listening on headphones while operating the "stereo-mono"
switch on my amp:

Segment 1 is plain mono.

Yes.

Segment 2 has some ambience coming from L & R of center -
which disappears entirely when switched to mono.

That was the producers' brief, total mono compatibility with
no change in the original sound.

Segment 3 in simply out of phase - the level drops by over
15db

Yes. It was done to illustrate the importance of the ratio
of centre to side signals. Normally the centre signal needs to
be some 6 to 10dB stronger. In segment 3 the levels are
equal.


** To quote a famous TV alien: "that does not compute".

Such a strong cancellation requires R to almost exactly equal -L.

A small delay plus phase reversal could NOT produce that.

Do the math....



In fact, I hear swishy cymbals on all three segments.

That's probably due to the low res of the track which I
posted.


** IMHO MP3 sucks.

Low bit rate MP3 sucks to the max.

Invented by a deaf Kraut code scribbler and loved only by film industry pukes - who have always accepted totally crap sound as just fine.



..... Phil

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...



In fact, I hear swishy cymbals on all three segments.

That's probably due to the low res of the track which I
posted.


** IMHO MP3 sucks.

Low bit rate MP3 sucks to the max.

Invented by a deaf Kraut code scribbler and loved only by film industry
pukes - who have always accepted totally crap sound as just fine.


Agreed. But .wav files take up space on the
server which I need for other things.

Iain

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
One of the worst recent examples of attempting to do stereo was rather
ominously called the very worst of Spike Jones.
The content was as witty and daft as expected but spot effects massively
filtered pan potted all over the place was completely ridiculous.
Brian

I would be interested to know how recent.

In analogue without LTC (time code) to synchronise,
it would have been extremely difficult. I can visualise
say five tracks on a multitrack recorder: L, LC, C,
RC, R, with the original mono on track 3 (C)

Then you would have to copy just the spot effects
and spin them in wth "finger sync" on the periferal
tracks to make a LR soundstage. With timecode
the task would have been easier. With a DAW
*much easier* but still time-consuming.
Worth doing? Naaah. But obviously someone
thought they could make a few quid.

In my view recordings such as Spike Jones are
sacrosanct, and anyone found violating them should
be locked in a room with Honey G playing on endless
loop very loud:-)

Iain

You said classical, I did not. I found the problems when they attempted to
stereofy things like old Tornados recordiings makde by Joe Meek. Absolutely
awful, as were emis best of Ruby Murray.
and Polidors spicks and specks by the bee giees originaly made in oz.
Then there was the unfortunate lp Capitol put out of Magical Mystery tour
by the beatles with reprocessed mono of Penny lane etc, which had stereo
mixes already.

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Yes I experimented with this sort of thing domestically around that time.
However a huge number of mono recordings by emi and Deca and polydor were
made using delays and naff frequency shifts that all sounded like you had
a bad head cold in stereo or like it was being played in a subway in
mono.

You may be right about the other labels but as far as I recall,
the Decca classical labels never did what you describe. Hence
our need to find an alternative.

The best effect i had was with small amounts of reverb, but different on
each track. Sadly though the mono in such cases did not sound like normal
mono as there were frequencies where the differing reverb cancelled and
gave the impression of notch filtering.

Total compatibility in mono was paramount.

Iain

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...StereoDemo.mp3

Yes indeed, it was a shame and there was no indication on it that they had
done this dastardly deed. Its not too bad if played with channels summed,
but still seems a waste of time and money.
Its a cd so I have no idea if its an original master made back some time
ago somebody got hold of or was created for the CD There is a lot of hiss on
some tracks and the sound does seem compressed in a similar way to similar
age stuff, was, so my suspicion is it was done some while ago as noise
reduction is better nowadays without affecting the frequency responce of
the music.



Which reminds me. Many of the Beach Boys stuff was in mono but the other
day a radio station played a track from Pet Sounds and it was in real
stereo, so it has me wondering.
Mind you people would be forgiven for thinking the Christmas Album by Phil
Spector was mono for its cd reeleases all are in that mode, yet I have it on
a stereo Vinyl.

I do also think that companies like EMI have been going back where old
recordings exist and attempting to remaster in decent real stereo. some work
better than others of course!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
One of the worst recent examples of attempting to do stereo was rather
ominously called the very worst of Spike Jones.
The content was as witty and daft as expected but spot effects massively
filtered pan potted all over the place was completely ridiculous.
Brian

I would be interested to know how recent.

In analogue without LTC (time code) to synchronise,
it would have been extremely difficult. I can visualise
say five tracks on a multitrack recorder: L, LC, C,
RC, R, with the original mono on track 3 (C)

Then you would have to copy just the spot effects
and spin them in wth "finger sync" on the periferal
tracks to make a LR soundstage. With timecode
the task would have been easier. With a DAW
*much easier* but still time-consuming.
Worth doing? Naaah. But obviously someone
thought they could make a few quid.

In my view recordings such as Spike Jones are
sacrosanct, and anyone found violating them should
be locked in a room with Honey G playing on endless
loop very loud:-)

Iain

On 20/01/2017 13:51, Iain Churches wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
One of the worst recent examples of attempting to do stereo was rather
ominously called the very worst of Spike Jones.
The content was as witty and daft as expected but spot effects massively
filtered pan potted all over the place was completely ridiculous.
Brian

I would be interested to know how recent.

In analogue without LTC (time code) to synchronise,
it would have been extremely difficult. I can visualise
say five tracks on a multitrack recorder: L, LC, C,
RC, R, with the original mono on track 3 (C)

Then you would have to copy just the spot effects
and spin them in wth "finger sync" on the periferal
tracks to make a LR soundstage. With timecode
the task would have been easier. With a DAW
*much easier* but still time-consuming.
Worth doing? Naaah. But obviously someone
thought they could make a few quid.

In my view recordings such as Spike Jones are
sacrosanct, and anyone found violating them should
be locked in a room with Honey G playing on endless
loop very loud:-)


Isn't that banned under the Geneva Convention?


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Invented by a deaf Kraut code scribbler

I think JJ (and the other AT&T-Bell Labs guys) would
be rather offended by that remark.

and loved only by film industry pukes

Yes, and all of us who have been able to enjoy portable
digital sound and streaming for the last 20 years.

- who have always accepted totally crap sound as just fine.

Well, as long as we aren't talking about very low bit rates,
"audibly indistinguishable from the original by most people"
has been more than good enough, especially considering the
appalling state of recorded music...

Julf

On 20/01/2017 14:57, Brian Gaff wrote:

Which reminds me. Many of the Beach Boys stuff was in mono but the other
day a radio station played a track from Pet Sounds and it was in real
stereo, so it has me wondering.

I think it was remixed from the original multi-track tapes.

--
Eiron.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Which reminds me. Many of the Beach Boys stuff was in mono but the
other day a radio station played a track from Pet Sounds and it was in
real stereo, so it has me wondering.

IIRC, Pet Sounds made much use of the then quite new multi-track recorders.
If those tapes still existed, it would be much easier to create passable
stereo from than a single track mono.

I don't like to mention TV sound on this hallowed group where only the
ultimate is considered relevant, but coming much later than the recording
industry to stereo - not until the '80s - there were by that time lots of
gismos around to produce 'stereo' from mono. And they were all, to a
greater or lesser extent, a waste of time. With only extremely limited
use. Certainly never for music of any sort.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.