On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 02:30:47 -0800 (PST), Phil Allison
wrote:

Johan Helsingius wrote:



I once did a blind listening test on an audiophile forum to
see if people could hear a difference between "hi-res" and CD.
As an outlier test, I threw in a 256K mp3 file (decoded to
FLAC, so people couldn't tell from the file format what it
was). The mp3 file came out as the second most preferred of
all 9 alternatives - the "winner" was the 16/44.1 file that
I had increased the volume by 1 dB on...



** That is a really worthless test methodology.

About 3 decades ago, I came up with a simple and really powerful one that avoided the horrible problems inherent in all A then B or ABX type tests.

Ocne set up, the test takes only a few seconds before the result is clear and convincing.

Unless your test operates in a similar way, it has no credibility with or impact on any listener. The principle is that of INSTANT change-over, while listening in stereo, in your home to your best loved tracks.

Read about it he

http://sound.whsites.net/absw.htm


Got any questions - I'm right here, every day.



.... Phil



I find instant switchover causes problems, particularly in the bass
end. If the two systems happen to have opposite phase, there will be
an apparent sound change when switching over, even though the sound is
actually the same. I like to have about half a second of dead air to
wipe the phase memory. That way you only hear the actual differences,
not the artificial transient of the phase shift.

d

This though edges on the psycho acoustic issues as well as the compression
and other distortions issues.
In many cases, I cannot tell tthe difference between a home made cd of a
vinyl and the real one. The only time it notices is if you go overboard with
click suppression or rumbe and other noise reduction as on dying echoes you
hear the watermark effect or the little blips in level where the click used
to be.


However some of the early recordings I made when DAB was still relatively
new sound much better than a repeat of the same material on the same station
escpecially if that is radio 2. it seems engineering on that station is now
a gain riding auto level control and a compressor.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 02:30:47 -0800 (PST), Phil Allison
wrote:

Johan Helsingius wrote:



I once did a blind listening test on an audiophile forum to
see if people could hear a difference between "hi-res" and CD.
As an outlier test, I threw in a 256K mp3 file (decoded to
FLAC, so people couldn't tell from the file format what it
was). The mp3 file came out as the second most preferred of
all 9 alternatives - the "winner" was the 16/44.1 file that
I had increased the volume by 1 dB on...



** That is a really worthless test methodology.

About 3 decades ago, I came up with a simple and really powerful one that
avoided the horrible problems inherent in all A then B or ABX type tests.

Ocne set up, the test takes only a few seconds before the result is clear
and convincing.

Unless your test operates in a similar way, it has no credibility with or
impact on any listener. The principle is that of INSTANT change-over,
while listening in stereo, in your home to your best loved tracks.

Read about it he

http://sound.whsites.net/absw.htm


Got any questions - I'm right here, every day.



.... Phil



I find instant switchover causes problems, particularly in the bass
end. If the two systems happen to have opposite phase, there will be
an apparent sound change when switching over, even though the sound is
actually the same. I like to have about half a second of dead air to
wipe the phase memory. That way you only hear the actual differences,
not the artificial transient of the phase shift.

d

On 22-01-17 11:30, Phil Allison wrote:

** That is a really worthless test methodology.

True, but still better than sighted listening.

The principle is that of INSTANT change-over, while listening in
stereo, in your home to your best loved tracks.

Yes, an A/B switchbox is great - if you have two separate
audio chains to compare. For comparing two different source
files, you need player software that can do the same in
software. Foobar2000 has an ABX function for comparing
music files that allows you similar instant switching
between the two sound files.

Julf

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 11:06:25 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

This though edges on the psycho acoustic issues as well as the compression
and other distortions issues.
In many cases, I cannot tell tthe difference between a home made cd of a
vinyl and the real one. The only time it notices is if you go overboard with
click suppression or rumbe and other noise reduction as on dying echoes you
hear the watermark effect or the little blips in level where the click used
to be.


However some of the early recordings I made when DAB was still relatively
new sound much better than a repeat of the same material on the same station
escpecially if that is radio 2. it seems engineering on that station is now
a gain riding auto level control and a compressor.
Brian

Yes, it absolutely is about psychoacoustics, not actual differences.
That's why it is important to eliminate it.

d

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:52:37 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:27:36 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 22/01/2017 09:52, Iain Churches wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news Bit unfair on des. I used to see him live and most of the time he looked
better than on the screen. I strongly dispute this old thing of the camera
never lies. I think that very much depends on how its adjusted in the
first place.
Brian

Yes. White balance.


More to do with make-up and lighting, the white balance on the camera
should be neutral.

White balance - and particularly skin tone balance on TV suffered with
the shift from illuminant C (the standard for the delta tube) and
illuminant E which came in with the PIL tube.

???????

The colour reference in broadcast TV was Illuminant D and still was 15
months ago!

Type of display is not really relevant. The phosphors changed over
time but that affects colour gamut rather than colour temperature.

Don Pearce wrote:


I find instant switchover causes problems, particularly in the bass
end.


** Complete ********.

You did not bother to read my link.



If the two systems happen to have opposite phase,


** Whaaaaaatttt ????


Straw men all over the planet have their head hung in same after that POS.

Don - here's a tip for you.

When you have nothing worth while to contribute - shut up.




..... Phil

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 11:18:54 +0000, Bill Taylor
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:52:37 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:27:36 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 22/01/2017 09:52, Iain Churches wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news Bit unfair on des. I used to see him live and most of the time he looked
better than on the screen. I strongly dispute this old thing of the camera
never lies. I think that very much depends on how its adjusted in the
first place.
Brian

Yes. White balance.


More to do with make-up and lighting, the white balance on the camera
should be neutral.

White balance - and particularly skin tone balance on TV suffered with
the shift from illuminant C (the standard for the delta tube) and
illuminant E which came in with the PIL tube.

???????

The colour reference in broadcast TV was Illuminant D and still was 15
months ago!

Type of display is not really relevant. The phosphors changed over
time but that affects colour gamut rather than colour temperature.

I'm going back a bit. I know the mechanism is the gamut, but what
happens when you have a different gamut in the camera to that on the
screen is that colours don't map properly. For most colours that
doesn't really matter, but for something as well-known as skin tone it
really stands out.

The place this is worst is in shops, where TVs are set to "shop mode".
They colours look like neon signs and the contrast edges are a mass of
ringing in their desperate attempt to look sharp. I don't know how
anyone chooses a TV in a shop.

d

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 03:26:27 -0800 (PST), Phil Allison
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:


I find instant switchover causes problems, particularly in the bass
end.


** Complete ********.

You did not bother to read my link.



If the two systems happen to have opposite phase,


** Whaaaaaatttt ????


Straw men all over the planet have their head hung in same after that POS.

Don - here's a tip for you.

When you have nothing worth while to contribute - shut up.




.... Phil

No straw men. This happens - deal with it.

d

Johan Helsingius wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

** That is a really worthless test methodology.

True,

** Lets leave it at that.



The principle is that of INSTANT change-over, while listening in
stereo, in your home to your best loved tracks.


Yes, an A/B switchbox is great - if you have two separate
audio chains to compare.


** So you did not read my link either.


For comparing two different source
files, you need player software that can do the same in
software. Foobar2000 has an ABX function for comparing
music files that allows you similar instant switching
between the two sound files.


** The original ABX system did not allow instant, seamless changeovers.

I reckon a lot of folk would have saved themselves a lot of wasted time of it did.

Note, the above is a massive understatement.

I almost got Arny Krugar to agree with me on this, he's a hard guy to convince too.



..... Phil

Don Pearce the asshole wrote:



** Complete ********.

You did not bother to read my link.



If the two systems happen to have opposite phase,


** Whaaaaaatttt ????


Straw men all over the planet have their heads hung in shame after that POS.

Don - here's a tip for you.

When you have nothing worth while to contribute - shut up.




No straw men.


** Of course it is a massive straw man - you trolling ****wit.

https://www.google.com.au/#q=straw+man+definition


FFS, double you IQ and get half a brain.



..... Phil