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Crosley's top end record player
Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations...
https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/ -- Adrian C |
Crosley's top end record player
I was always amazed how well the old el cheapo Garrard SP25 was, considering
the main bearing seemed to involve a felt washer and the pick up some rough old knife bearings. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message ... Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations... https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/ -- Adrian C |
Crosley's top end record player
On 11/10/17 10:12, Brian Gaff wrote:
I was always amazed how well the old el cheapo Garrard SP25 was, considering the main bearing seemed to involve a felt washer and the pick up some rough old knife bearings. I foolishly gave someone my old Shure M75ED cart which he stuck on one of those decks, then visited me with a big grin at my mistake. Currently I'm shopping for a new cart for a Rega P3-24, the stock harsh sibilant bassless Rega Bias 2 cart I want to get shot of. The prices of all the half decent ones have recently accelerated into the hundreds with the exception of the £30 AT95e which I may end up with. -- Adrian C |
Crosley's top end record player
"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message ... On 11/10/17 10:12, Brian Gaff wrote: I was always amazed how well the old el cheapo Garrard SP25 was, considering the main bearing seemed to involve a felt washer and the pick up some rough old knife bearings. I foolishly gave someone my old Shure M75ED cart which he stuck on one of those decks, then visited me with a big grin at my mistake. Currently I'm shopping for a new cart for a Rega P3-24, the stock harsh sibilant bassless Rega Bias 2 cart I want to get shot of. The prices of all the half decent ones have recently accelerated into the hundreds with the exception of the £30 AT95e which I may end up with. The AT95e has been around for years and years and is well tried and tested, like the one what I have got. Also consider looking at Ortofon who are very much still around and make a good product. Now if you can tell me where I can get a stylus for my AT30 moving coil cartridge........ -- Woody harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com |
Crosley's top end record player
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Crosley's top end record player
On 11-10-17 14:10, UnsteadyKen wrote:
My filter found no bull****, just a concise description of how the turntable sounded to the writer. What does "upper mids being airy" mean? Was the "meaty" bass pork or cow? How large is an epic soundstage? 10 m? |
Crosley's top end record player
Chuckle they were probably using Sonus single speaker stereo.
Incidentally somebody spotted a real gen or a pig depending on your view in one of those cash converter second hand shops. A Strathearn turntable in garish colours for 20 quid. Those if I recall where the ones with the linear motor crap arm and strangely unstable speed. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Huge" wrote in message ... On 2017-10-11, Adrian Caspersz wrote: Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations... https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/ "Sound quality was excellent across all frequencies. Upper mids exhibited clarity, being open and airy for the price. The C-10's bass was meaty too while the soundstage was wide and epic in size." Hang on, I'll just run this through my bull**** filter; "No output". Oh. -- Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 65th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3183 Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. |
Crosley's top end record player
Maybe it just sounded OK to that person.
One thing that has always amazed me is that some shops have crap sound from crap systems, while others seem to use stuff I'd never heard of and remarkably get decent sound. I don't know ho Beng speakers are, but considering they were only 790 quid a pair they sounded pretty good, especially compared to the average crap bundled with these stereo systems sold in the multiples these days. I have never seen them since though so maybe they were bankrupt stock from a decent company I'd never heard of... I have some Goodmans speakers here from one of their stereo systems which sounds good on good speakers, but rubbish on the ones they bundle indeed the speakers sound rubbish on anything! I wonder how a company can actually make such bad honking flat dodgy speakers. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Johan Helsingius" wrote in message ... On 11-10-17 14:10, UnsteadyKen wrote: My filter found no bull****, just a concise description of how the turntable sounded to the writer. What does "upper mids being airy" mean? Was the "meaty" bass pork or cow? How large is an epic soundstage? 10 m? |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
says... What does "upper mids being airy" mean? According to one source: Airy - Spacious. Open. Instruments sound like they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air. Good reproduction of high frequency reflections. Was the "meaty" bass pork or cow? How large is an epic soundstage? 10 m? Reviewers have been using those and similar terms since the year dot and I would have thought that anyone interested in audio reproduction would be familiar with them. Magazines and websites publish glossaries. There has been talk of standardising reviewing terms by some magazines, John Atkinson; the editor of Stereophile; who used to post to a couple of newsgroups, wrote a few years ago about attempting to get his writers to use the terms listed here https://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/index.html It didn't work, the writers hated it, the readers didn't think much of it either (Negative comments such as reviewing by numbers, removes all personality etc) and the plan was soon dropped. -- Ken |
Crosley's top end record player
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz
wrote: Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations... https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/ There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion levels which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned. Bass response is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in recording, and by the necessary arm resonance at reproduction. Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head. In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it, but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid. But don't go over a tenner. d --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
UnsteadyKen wrote: What does "upper mids being airy" mean? According to one source: Airy - Spacious. Open. Instruments sound like they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air. That could be a problem if they were recorded in the usual smallish studio. Good reproduction of high frequency reflections. -- *Plagiarism saves time * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crosley's top end record player
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote: Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations... https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/ There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion levels which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned. Bass response is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in recording, and by the necessary arm resonance at reproduction. Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head. In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it, but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid. But don't go over a tenner. Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. -- Woody harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com |
Crosley's top end record player
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:26:38 +0100, "Woody"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote: Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations... https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/ There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion levels which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned. Bass response is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in recording, and by the necessary arm resonance at reproduction. Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head. In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it, but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid. But don't go over a tenner. Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. I've had the vastly greater pleasure of listening to uncompressed performances on CDs, with no background noise, bass in actual stereo and a full frequency range. d --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
Woody wrote: Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where it's being balanced/recorded. Only a good digital recording comes close to that. Analogue tape never did, and any form of disc recording a very poor second. -- *If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crosley's top end record player
On 12/10/2017 00:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Woody wrote: Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. I'd agree - at least, a decent record played on a decent record player sounds very good indeed. I genuinely can't understand why people insist LPs as a matter of fact have 'muddy bass' and 'no treble'. In a domestic setting, it is at least in the same ballpark as digital. About now, I have to conclude opinions on all of this are a combination of hearing 'characteristics' and plain bias with a twist of auto-suggestion. I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where it's being balanced/recorded. Only a good digital recording comes close to that. Analogue tape never did, and any form of disc recording a very poor second. Wouldn't a recording be 'going through' the tape, like on a 3 head cassette deck? No idea, perhaps not. If what you say is the general case, it does make me wonder how much better all the analogue recordings could have been. As things stand, I'm very happy with a lot of my pre-70s music's sound quality. More so than a lot of recent stuff. -- Cheers, Rob |
Crosley's top end record player
On 11/10/2017 18:10, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-11, UnsteadyKen wrote: In article , says... What does "upper mids being airy" mean? According to one source: Airy - Spacious. Open. Instruments sound like they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air. Good reproduction of high frequency reflections. Was the "meaty" bass pork or cow? How large is an epic soundstage? 10 m? Reviewers have been using those and similar terms since the year dot and ... they've been meaningless wank that whole time. If it can't be measured it can't be of significance? -- Cheers, Rob |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
UnsteadyKen wrote: Reviewers have been using those and similar terms since the year dot and I would have thought that anyone interested in audio reproduction would be familiar with them. Magazines and websites publish glossaries. Yes, we're certainly familiar with them. As we are with the way many politicians waffle. Having heard something many times doesn't mean it tells you anything useful. I don't care what waffle a reviewer uses because I don't care what *he* likes or dislikes. I would prefer information I can reliable use to tell me what I'd make of the item in my situation, not his. Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Crosley's top end record player
In article , Woody
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote: Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations... https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/ There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion levels which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned. Bass response is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in recording, and by the necessary arm resonance at reproduction. Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head. In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it, but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid. But don't go over a tenner. Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. I've been listening to some new ones recently. They are enjoyable. But have little in the way of 'top end'. The main points are decent music with a recording that hasn't been messed up by things like excess compression, clipping, or weird EQ/effects... So I could say much the same about other media. Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Crosley's top end record player
In article , RJH
wrote: If it can't be measured it can't be of significance? Avoid the trap of assuming "we don't know everything" is a synonym for "we know nothing". :-) Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Crosley's top end record player
Once upon a time on usenet Brian Gaff wrote:
Maybe it just sounded OK to that person. One thing that has always amazed me is that some shops have crap sound from crap systems, while others seem to use stuff I'd never heard of and remarkably get decent sound. I don't know ho Beng speakers are, but considering they were only 790 quid a pair they sounded pretty good, especially compared to the average crap bundled with these stereo systems sold in the multiples these days. I have never seen them since though so maybe they were bankrupt stock from a decent company I'd never heard of... I have some Goodmans speakers here from one of their stereo systems which sounds good on good speakers, but rubbish on the ones they bundle indeed the speakers sound rubbish on anything! I wonder how a company can actually make such bad honking flat dodgy speakers. Brian I had a 'Goodmans' mini-system that had horrible bookshelf speakers with it. I got rid of them smartish. However I'll not get rid of my Goodmans Mezzo SLs unless I absolutely have to. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) On 11-10-17 14:10, UnsteadyKen wrote: My filter found no bull****, just a concise description of how the turntable sounded to the writer. What does "upper mids being airy" mean? Was the "meaty" bass pork or cow? How large is an epic soundstage? 10 m? |
Crosley's top end record player
On 12/10/2017 08:58, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-12, RJH wrote: On 11/10/2017 18:10, Huge wrote: On 2017-10-11, UnsteadyKen wrote: In article , says... What does "upper mids being airy" mean? According to one source: Airy - Spacious. Open. Instruments sound like they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air. Good reproduction of high frequency reflections. Was the "meaty" bass pork or cow? How large is an epic soundstage? 10 m? Reviewers have been using those and similar terms since the year dot and ... they've been meaningless wank that whole time. If it can't be measured it can't be of significance? Not entirely. Phew :-) Carefully controlled double-blind trials are acceptable. So called "golden ears" are just a joke. Quite whether the same adjectives or metaphors are used between trials wouldn't be especially revealing. How something sounds depends on much more than the method of reproduction. -- Cheers, Rob |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
RJH wrote: I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where it's being balanced/recorded. Only a good digital recording comes close to that. Analogue tape never did, and any form of disc recording a very poor second. Wouldn't a recording be 'going through' the tape, like on a 3 head cassette deck? No idea, perhaps not. If what you say is the general case, it does make me wonder how much better all the analogue recordings could have been. As things stand, I'm very happy with a lot of my pre-70s music's sound quality. More so than a lot of recent stuff. Very true. But getting pleasure from any recording is not just down to how good the 'specs' of that recording are. Plus if you first heard it warts and all and loved it, hearing it with the warts removed can spoil it for you. I still play LPs on occasion. And enjoy them. -- *I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
Huge wrote: Not entirely. Carefully controlled double-blind trials are acceptable. So called "golden ears" are just a joke. Yes. The ear actually has a pretty poor 'memory'. Nothing to do with having perfect pitch either. -- *Arkansas State Motto: Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Laugh. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
RJH wrote: Quite whether the same adjectives or metaphors are used between trials wouldn't be especially revealing. How something sounds depends on much more than the method of reproduction. My guess is these reviews are written for those who like this sort of description. Much the same as some describe a wine, or whatever. And flowery language is much cheaper than doing any proper testing. With a turntable I'd want to know how accurate the speed is. Wow and flutter. Rumble. Tracking performance of the arm and cartridge, as well as frequency response, etc. How resistant the unit is to vibration and feedback. All of which can be measured accurately. Much cheaper to say the midrange reminds you of roses on a summer evening. -- *Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crosley's top end record player
In article , Huge
writes: On 2017-10-12, RJH wrote: If it can't be measured it can't be of significance? Not entirely. Carefully controlled double-blind trials are acceptable. So called "golden ears" are just a joke. Surely not. After all, they can discern the difference between digital interconnects, which mere mortals can't even measure. -- Mike Fleming |
Crosley's top end record player
On 13/10/2017 02:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , RJH wrote: Quite whether the same adjectives or metaphors are used between trials wouldn't be especially revealing. How something sounds depends on much more than the method of reproduction. My guess is these reviews are written for those who like this sort of description. Much the same as some describe a wine, or whatever. And flowery language is much cheaper than doing any proper testing. With a turntable I'd want to know how accurate the speed is. Wow and flutter. Rumble. Tracking performance of the arm and cartridge, as well as frequency response, etc. How resistant the unit is to vibration and feedback. All of which can be measured accurately. Yes, all good ballpark indicators about how a component is likely to perform. Much cheaper to say the midrange reminds you of roses on a summer evening. Well, I couldn't possibly comment ;-) But the measurement of a *system* in particular would benefit, I believe, from qualitative measurement too. -- Cheers, Rob |
Crosley's top end record player
On 12/10/2017 09:12, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , RJH wrote: If it can't be measured it can't be of significance? Avoid the trap of assuming "we don't know everything" is a synonym for "we know nothing". :-) Jim Noted :-) -- Cheers, Rob |
Crosley's top end record player
On 13/10/2017 11:40, RJH wrote:
On 12/10/2017 09:12, Jim Lesurf wrote: In article , RJH wrote: If it can't be measured it can't be of significance? Avoid the trap of assuming "we don't know everything" is a synonym for "we know nothing". :-) Jim Noted :-) Actually, just to add, I used the term 'ballpark' above in relation to quantitative methods. I do believe they're often a very useful approach to getting things moving and understanding what's going on in a general sense - unemployment, health, education, whatever - and music reproduction. The 'truth to be observed' in any social realm (and a fair few natural) needs qualitative data and analysis for a fuller understanding. A problem on this topic is that many feel that music as reproduced is a simple (not always single, though) objective truth, and inherently measurable (dB, KHz, whatever) as an unassailable 'truth'. I'd agree that measurements can get them towards what matters, but further qualitative methods are needed. Mind, i could be wrong ;-) Now, off to see Blade Runner :-) -- Cheers, Rob |
Crosley's top end record player
In article , RJH
wrote: A problem on this topic is that many feel that music as reproduced is a simple (not always single, though) objective truth, and inherently measurable (dB, KHz, whatever) as an unassailable 'truth'. I'd agree that measurements can get them towards what matters, but further qualitative methods are needed. The problem is to distinguish the container from the contained. e.g. A 'reviewer' may actually be commenting on the sound of the music whilst using a wording that assigns what they claim to some specific part of the apparatus used to play it. Yet in practice when we listen to music on a HiFi we get result of a series of factors along the way. From the acoustic of the venue to the changes in the ears of the listener caused by what they did shortly before they listened to that bit of music. All then convolved with their (possibly unawares) personal tasts, expectations, etc. Too many unknowns, many of whicn will vary from case to case. Chances are your or my circumstances, etc, will never all match that of the reviewer who wrote a specific review we just read. 'Controlled' tests can mitigate this, but aren't easy to do well except for fairly basic effects. As a result, I tend to feel that 'subjective' comments in reviews are about as reliable as tossing a coin. And tossing a coin is cheaper and quicker. :-) I don't doubt there are exceptions, though. But unless some *checkable* statements are made that shed light, the above tends to render comments unreliable. No matter how confident the reviewer, the above seems likely to be so for all be trivial or clear cut cases. Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
Mike Fleming wrote: Not entirely. Carefully controlled double-blind trials are acceptable. So called "golden ears" are just a joke. Surely not. After all, they can discern the difference between digital interconnects, which mere mortals can't even measure. Point is they can't. Ages ago, there was a substantial cash prize on offer to anyone who could reliably tell the difference between 'ordinary' interconnects and the high priced ones. In a proper double blind test. No-one has won it. I'd guess many who say they can don't want to be proved wrong. ;-) -- *Santa Claus has the right idea. Visit people only once a year. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crosley's top end record player
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:20:03 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , Mike Fleming wrote: Not entirely. Carefully controlled double-blind trials are acceptable. So called "golden ears" are just a joke. Surely not. After all, they can discern the difference between digital interconnects, which mere mortals can't even measure. Point is they can't. Ages ago, there was a substantial cash prize on offer to anyone who could reliably tell the difference between 'ordinary' interconnects and the high priced ones. In a proper double blind test. No-one has won it. I'd guess many who say they can don't want to be proved wrong. ;-) Neither can they tell the difference between competent analogue interconnects. I put this to the test years ago when I was at Pye studios in Marble Arch. Someone had brought in some super-expensive cables which I scoffed at. Anyway, long and the short is that I rigged up a test, single rather than double blind. But nobody present - engineers, and a producer included - could tell the difference. d --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Crosley's top end record player
Once upon a time on usenet ~misfit~ wrote:
Once upon a time on usenet Brian Gaff wrote: Maybe it just sounded OK to that person. One thing that has always amazed me is that some shops have crap sound from crap systems, while others seem to use stuff I'd never heard of and remarkably get decent sound. I don't know ho Beng speakers are, but considering they were only 790 quid a pair they sounded pretty good, especially compared to the average crap bundled with these stereo systems sold in the multiples these days. I have never seen them since though so maybe they were bankrupt stock from a decent company I'd never heard of... I have some Goodmans speakers here from one of their stereo systems which sounds good on good speakers, but rubbish on the ones they bundle indeed the speakers sound rubbish on anything! I wonder how a company can actually make such bad honking flat dodgy speakers. Brian I had a 'Goodmans' mini-system that had horrible bookshelf speakers with it. I got rid of them smartish. However I'll not get rid of my Goodmans Mezzo SLs unless I absolutely have to. I should have said that the mini system was circa 2000 after the Goodmans name had been sold to gods know who and the equipment was being made in China. The Mezzos are 1970s, made in England (but with a SEAS 1.5" soft-dome tweeter) and cost something like 450 quid back then. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
Crosley's top end record player
In article , "Brian Gaff"
writes: One thing that has always amazed me is that some shops have crap sound from crap systems, while others seem to use stuff I'd never heard of and remarkably get decent sound. I don't know ho Beng speakers are, but considering they were only 790 quid a pair they sounded pretty good, especially compared to the average crap bundled with these stereo systems sold in the multiples these days. I have never seen them since though so maybe they were bankrupt stock from a decent company I'd never heard of... At 790 quid a pair, I'd hope they sounded exactly like the original. Did a stray "0" creep in by any chance? -- Mike Fleming |
Crosley's top end record player
keskiviikko 11. lokakuuta 2017 20.54.27 UTC+3 Dave Plowman (News) kirjoitti:
In article , UnsteadyKen wrote: What does "upper mids being airy" mean? According to one source: Airy - Spacious. Open. Instruments sound like they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air. That could be a problem if they were recorded in the usual smallish studio. The majority of non-classical projects are recorded in the "usual smallish studio" and many projects are recorded in several "usual smallish studios" for example rhythm section in London, strings in Berlin, brass in LA and then vocals in London again. The acoustic which the listener hears is added in mix or post, from a digital reverb unit. I am currently working on an album made in three locations. The final acoustic parameters will be of the Queen Elizabeth Hall. So, even recordings made in small and dry locations can give the impression that the "Instruments sound like they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air". Iain |
Crosley's top end record player
torstai 12. lokakuuta 2017 2.46.46 UTC+3 Dave Plowman (News) kirjoitti:
In article , Woody wrote: Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where it's being balanced/recorded. Listening to the live sound is indeed a joy. Actually recording the sound is an even greater joy. The feeling of elation when you pull down the stereo fader as the reverb dies away on a fine performance is difficult to describe. You may have not had the same opportunity Dave, but at Decca, trainee engineers were encouraged to spend the first part of a classical session sitting in the studio, "soaking up the live" sound". We had three chairs behind the conductor's podium just under the Decca tree. It was then interesting to go to the control and hear what was coming from the monitors. Only a good digital recording comes close to that. Analogue tape never did, (snip) Really? I have a CD which I made up as my "show reel" which contains baroque compositions by Henry Purcell and Thomas Arne. Most were digital recordings which I have made over the years for Decca, Argo, L'Oiseau Lyre and RCA but a few were analogue Dolby SR. No one who has listened to them has ever been able to say with certainty which were which. Iain |
Crosley's top end record player
keskiviikko 11. lokakuuta 2017 19.29.47 UTC+3 Don Pearce kirjoitti:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote: Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations... https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/ There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion levels which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned. Bass response is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in recording, and by the necessary arm resonance at reproduction. Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head. In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it, but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid. But don't go over a tenner. d By the mid 50's Decca had an ffrr cutting head that followed RIAA within 0.5dB to 15kHz. The Neumann SX68 is (usually better than) +/- 1 dB 40Hz to 16kHz. In Decca trials, its successor the SX74 was -2dB at 22kHz ref RIAA. We had a test disc for internal use (cutting and listening rooms turntable/RIAA set ups) which had a glide tone 20Hz to 20kHz. Many Decca classical LPs were cut at half speed, so hf was not compromised. The problem that Don mentions: "Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head" is solved by half speed cutting and/or cooling the cutter head with helium. What is actually on the disc depended greatly on the skills of the cutting engineer. The object of the exercise is to cut an acetate master which is as close as possible to the original master tape. (Any fool can make it sound different-:)) Given the medium involved, and the expectations of producers and engineers, this is no easy task. The general public used cheap turntables with doubtful stylii played records which were poorly looked after, and expected high fidelity. Budget labels, especially in the UK, used to punch out the centres of unsold and returned vinyl pressings to be recycled in the vinyl mix for subsequent production. The same matrices were used for over-extended runs pressing runs. These days, now that vinyl and well and truly matured, people are willing to pay more for a quality product, and we are offered immaculate 180 gr pressings, pressed in very short runs before stamper renewal. On a goods vinyl rig, they sound wonderful. This, a 12inch gatefold sleeve and a booklet which one can read without a magnifying glass all add up to a quality product. Interestingly, comparison of many non-classical parallel productions, CD and LP, often give listeners the idea that LP is in fact better, because they prefer what they hear. And due to the lack of compression, people often assume (eroniously) that vinyl has a greater dynamic range. In A/B/C comparison, it is not unusual for people to conclude that the vinyl is closer to the master than the CD. The principles of CD mastering are totally different to those of vinyl cutting. During the various steps of the mastering process, the CD quickly starts to sound noticeably different to the original digital recording, - which depending on your viewpoint, may, or may not be a good thing:-)) But trying to give the public what they think they want, is not without its problems. Iain |
Crosley's top end record player
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus In article , Woody wrote: Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where it's being balanced/recorded. Only a good digital recording comes close to that. Analogue tape never did, and any form of disc recording a very poor second. Old Stan Curtis has an interesting take on analogue recorders;! And a few other audio topics. http://www.stancurtis.com/PDFs/HiFi%20Critic%205.pdf -- Tony Sayer |
Crosley's top end record player
"tony sayer" wrote in message ... In article , Dave Plowman (News) scribeth thus In article , Woody wrote: Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where it's being balanced/recorded. Only a good digital recording comes close to that. Analogue tape never did, and any form of disc recording a very poor second. Old Stan Curtis has an interesting take on analogue recorders;! And a few other audio topics. http://www.stancurtis.com/PDFs/HiFi%20Critic%205.pdf -- Now there was a chap who knew his onions. -- Woody harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com |
Crosley's top end record player
In article ,
Woody wrote: "tony sayer" wrote in message ... In article , Dave Plowman (News) scribeth thus In article , Woody wrote: Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold. I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where it's being balanced/recorded. Only a good digital recording comes close to that. Analogue tape never did, and any form of disc recording a very poor second. Old Stan Curtis has an interesting take on analogue recorders;! And a few other audio topics. http://www.stancurtis.com/PDFs/HiFi%20Critic%205.pdf -- Now there was a chap who knew his onions. If he does, he doesn't cover it fully in that article. More to lining up an analogue tape machine for replay than simply cleaning the heads and setting a level. -- *Cleaned by Stevie Wonder, checked by David Blunkett* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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